7 ms·

Announcing the Windows 8 Editions

57 points by Braasch 14y ago

MichaelGG 14y ago
Awesome! They listened to feedback and killed off the mess of SKUs. Now only if they'd allow disk encryption (Bitlocker) in the basic SKU, so non-Pro users can use the OS instead of having to install TrueCrypt.
- loverobots 14y ago
  I personally would choose TrueCrypt, but I understand the "let's go with default version" even if it's $100 or so more (upgrading Win 7 Home to the Bitlocker version costs about that). I suspect the ones with Bitlocker will do well if MS scares the crap out of big corps about losing private information
endlessvoid94 14y ago
I love that Apple doesn't make me choose between editions. I paid $30 and I got the new OS. Did I get the upgrade edition? What features did I pay for? No idea. I got it all, for $30. I didn't even want to read the whole table for all the features of windows 8. I just want Windows 8.
- ckluis 14y ago
  It's the best they've done so far...
  - astrodust 14y ago
    Maybe they're following the grandmother rule, where if someone's grandmother can't figure it out after a ten minute explanation, they should go back and try again with a different plan.
  - endlessvoid94 14y ago
    Yeah I definitely agree. I can't believe they got it down to 3. But I also can't help thinking "what the hell. haven't they learned?" It probably makes them more money overall. But with the cost of user confusion and possible frustration. I guess that's a tradeoff they're willing to make. Which is why I won't buy it for $100 bucks.
    - glesica 14y ago
      Well, if you look at the text at the bottom of the table, they've actually got it down to four, Windows 8 Enterprise will still exist as a separate SKU. So really they've only eliminated one edition (Ultimate) and changed the name of another (Starter -> RT). Not that it isn't an improvement. And the simplified naming is a big deal as well. Seriously, who thought "Home Premium" was a good idea? Premium compared to what?
      - recoiledsnake 14y ago
        .>..changed the name of another (Starter -> RT). What? You're way off base here. Please re-read article more carefully.
        glesica 14y ago
        Windows 7 Starter was the edition for low-power devices. Previously, that meant netbooks, now it means tablets with ARM processors. The market segments are not identical, I realize that, but they're similar, hence my comment about basically renaming "Starter" to "RT". In fact, based on previous reporting, RT will even be targeted at "Home" users, which is also the same as Starter. I didn't mean they literally renamed the product, just that RT will now occupy a similar market position to that previously occupied by Windows 7 Starter.
        dpark 14y ago
        Not even a little bit. Win7 Starter was aimed at people who wanted a dirt-cheap netbook, with prices starting at about $250. It didn't even come with Aero. Windows RT is aimed at people who want a tablet. This is not the same market. This is the set of people who currently shell out $500 and up to buy an iPad, twice as much as a netbook. This is not the same market, and it's not a renaming of the cheapest OS. Starter was the most stripped-down OS. RT is actually the most feature-rich, due to the inclusion of Office. There's a bit of overlap, but only in the same way that there's overlap between people who buy a netbook and people who buy a ThinkPad.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- astrodust 14y ago
  The local store ran out of single licenses for Snow Leopard so I just bought the family pack for something like $59. I didn't even feel ripped off. It used to be $120 for a single copy, so this is like half off! Microsoft still has the audacity to charge several hundred dollars for their OS. How is it that the cost of Windows keeps going up, but the cost of computers keeps going down?
  - creamyhorror 14y ago
    "Microsoft still has the audacity to charge several hundred dollars for their OS." That's really disingenuous, given that 1) the consumer versions of Windows traditionally cost less than $100 2) Microsoft doesn't make money on hardware, whereas the cost of Apple's OSes is priced into Mac hardware You don't get to tut-tut Microsoft for an expensive OS (that runs on the consumer's choice of commodity hardware, cheap or expensive) when you pay a premium on a Mac all-in-one computer. You can justify Apple's OS pricing as being easy to stomach all you want - ultimately it's your choice to buy into the intended psychology of their pricing strategy - but don't try to paint that as a rational, fair comparison.
    - astrodust 14y ago
      "Windows 7 Home Premium" is about $100, but if you want professional you must pay significantly more. "Windows 7 Professional" is $149. "Windows 7 Ultimate" is $199. You can get OEM copies for less from places like NewEgg if you buy hardware, but never as low as the big OEMs pay. When a decent computer was over $2,000 the cost of Windows + DOS was around $85-100. Now the same computer costs about $500 and Windows is as much as $199.
  - gouranga 14y ago
    Well that's a load of shit. They screwed you for $59!!! 1/ I've never bought Windows. I tend to buy new hardware when it comes along every 2-3 years (which is the typical lifespan of any hardware regardless of brand/vendor). 2/ And I didn't pay $1200 for the hardware either like Apple stuff. In fact I paid equiv $800 for a Lenovo with Windows 7. 3/ The non Apple hardware is EXACTLY the same and is cheaper (try a Lenovo T/X machine which are far better put together than Apple kit). Oh and I can change the battery without a screwdriver ;-) Oh and I can get the spare bits off ebay for virtually nothing. I love how Apple fanboys enjoy telling people how they didn't get ripped off when they did...
- tshtf 14y ago
  If you want the features of the operating system formerly known as OS X Server, you shell over $49.99 in the App Stare: http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/os-x-lion-server/id444376097?mt=12 http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/os-x-lion-server/id444376097?...
  - sigzero 14y ago
    That isn't a direct comparison though because OS X Server and OS X are different beasts really (thought they share an awful lot). Joe Public would just buy "OS X" or in the Windows 7 world Joe Public would have to choose between "Windows 7 Starter/Home Basic/Home Premium/Professional/Enterprise/Ultimate" and in the Windows 8 world "Windows 8/8 Pro/RT" and would have to ask to know the differences between each.
    - zht 14y ago
      Joe Public would have Home Premium which comes pre-installed with their laptop/is whatever their laptop's factory reset DVD resets their laptop to. Joe Public would barely be aware that there are other versions out there much less the differences between them.
    - recoiledsnake 14y ago
      That is because Apple is not a big player in the enterprise space like Windows is, thus they don't see the benefit of the same differentiation that they have with OS X server.
    - unwiredben 14y ago
      Technically, they can't choose Windows RT since it's the ARM edition and only comes bundled with Windows tablets. I expect almost everyone will get Windows 8, and the "Pro" features will be easy to purchase as an upgrade through the new Windows Store.
- sliverstorm 14y ago
  On the other hand, I love it when companies let me choose roughly what functionality I need, and pay accordingly.
  - astrodust 14y ago
    You mean like cable companies where if you want ESPN you can buy it, but if you don't want the History Channel you can opt out? If your product aspires to be that complicated, you're probably doing it wrong.
    - sliverstorm 14y ago
      The way I see it, the level of granularity I desire is directly related to the pricing. Something less expensive should have less granularity; something more expensive ought to have more granularity. Cable is a good candidate for the "more granularity" category both because it's naturally easy to segment, and because while monthly bills are not large, they of course add up fast. For an example of a product (rather than service) that can benefit from more granularity, consider computers. Even Apple, our paragon of non-granular pricing options, offers ~4 SKU's for their higher end laptops.
  - OzzyB 14y ago
    Unless of course the lowest option, functionality wise, isn't less than $30.
    - cooldeal 14y ago
      The reason being that they've already got your money by selling you hardware at a good margin.
      - endlessvoid94 14y ago
        If consumers always thought about why a company charges what it does, then sure. But that's not how consumers think. Or companies, for the most part.
- dewitt 14y ago
  I agree that fewer editions is the way to go, but note that OS X has always had multiple SKUs as well: http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/os-x-lion/id444303913 http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/os-x-lion-server/id444376097 And customers first need to buy Snow Leopard separately, because you can't install Lion on its own, you can only upgrade to it (somewhat amazingly): http://www.apple.com/macosx/how-to-buy/ On a related note, over the weekend I tried to install Lion on a 5-year-old iMac. Was surprised to find out it's not supported on hardware even that far back. I hope they don't continue either trend with Mountain Lion. (And a footnote, Windows RT is for an entirely different architecture—ARM—and an entirely different class of devices, so no surprise there's a separate SKU for it.)
  - 2muchcoffeeman 14y ago
    Legally, i.e. according to the TOS, you need Snow Leopard. You can install Lion on it's own http://www.macworld.com/article/1161087/install_lion_over_leopard.html http://www.macworld.com/article/1161087/install_lion_over_le... But it's a bit silly.
  - endlessvoid94 14y ago
    It's far less of a big deal, though, with a $30 price tag. I don't dislike upgrading from Windows 7 to windows 8 because I think it will be hard. I don't want to pay upwards of $100 to install an OS on another machine. I'll definitely pay $30 though. That's the equivalent of beer money on a night out with a few other friends.
  - beagle3 14y ago
    Apple officially supports 4-year old hardware but not older (or at least, did in the past). All Apple software produced 4 years after the last PPC apple was sold had still supported PPC, and only then it stopped. I think that's reasonable. While it's technically easier to support a 5-year old Intel Mac compared to a 5-year old PPC Mac, I still think Apple is reasonable in not doing that. It's not like your 4-year old hardware or software stops working. It's just that newer software gradually stops being available for your old hardware.
- PhrosTT 14y ago
  You paid the apple tax when you bought your computer. You can only access that $30 price after paying a huge premium for your hardware.
  - pinaceae 14y ago
    exactly, that's why all the macbook air competitors are half the price of...wait a sec...
    - yread 14y ago
      Uh... yes, they are? Macbook air i5, 4gb, 128gb vs Asus zenbook i5, 4gb, 128gb (and with higher resolution display), 950$ vs 1300$ http://store.apple.com/us/configure/MC965LL/A http://store.apple.com/us/configure/MC965LL/A? http://www.google.com/products/catalog?client=opera&rls=en&q=asus+zenbook&oe=utf-8&channel=suggest&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=16088316992714711222&sa=X&ei=KwGNT_KZHsaWOo6kiPUK&ved=0CGkQ8wIwAw http://www.google.com/products/catalog?client=opera&rls=...
- Michiel 14y ago
  > I didn't even want to read the whole table for all the features of windows 8 Took me all of 5 minutes to digest that table (and decide I want Windows 8 Pro for Boot from VHD and Client Hyper-V). That's not too much time to choose something I'm going to be using for 3 years, is it?
r00fus 14y ago
One thing jumps out at me... so only WindowsRT has Microsoft Office - that's pretty much a required app for many business PC users and severe fragmentation if it's seriously not available on the other Windows8 editions. Am I missing something? Does this imply shift to "cloud" office?
- walexander 14y ago
  I think this implies "We already can sell Office on x86, but we're not even sure we can sell Windows on ARM".
  - cooldeal 14y ago
    I think it's more like they're driving home the point... "Why get an artificially crippled consumption device when you can have the choice to hookup a keyboard/mouse and do real work?" ..by bundling Office with the ARM tablets.
- sharth 14y ago
  Windows RT is an ARM version of Windows. On that version, a touch optimized version of Microsoft Office will be included with the windows license.
- klausa 14y ago
  It means that it's the only one that comes bundled with Office - of course you'll be able to install Office on Windows 8, but you will have to purchase it separately.
- modeless 14y ago
  Of course Office is available on all Windows versions. It's included with Windows RT, which is an interesting choice. It's likely going to be crippled in some way, otherwise an ARM laptop suddenly looks like a far better value than an Intel laptop. Intel can't be happy about this.
  - recoiledsnake 14y ago
roadnottaken 14y ago
They're taking 'Remote Desktop (host)' away from standard (non-pro) editions. That sucks.
- DLarsen 14y ago
  Nothing new here. The basic versions of Win7 didn't have it.
- cooldeal 14y ago
  They can't take away something that was not there in the first place.
ender7 14y ago
'Window Steam Blog'
- joshu 14y ago
  same here.
joejohnson 14y ago
That giant table looks pretty awful, but I guess this is a huge improvement for Windows releases. For desktop users, it's really a choice between Pro and regular. For Vista, it was this mess: http://www.helpwithwindows.com/WindowsVista/vista-which-version.html http://www.helpwithwindows.com/WindowsVista/vista-which-vers...
- marklabedz 14y ago
  Narrower, but longer.
GavinAnderegg 14y ago
Windows 8: Normal person edition Windows 8: I work in a big company edition Windows 8: At least I get Office for free edition Also what's with this: All editions of Windows 8 offer a no-compromise experience. If they're no compromise, why do I have to choose between them?
- simonsarris 14y ago
  Rather, the only compromise is price and for 100% of consumers that makes the choice completely obvious. There isn't Windows 8: Productivity Crippled Edition, or Windows 8: Red and Blue editions where both have pros and cons. You don't have to labor over the difference because you're not losing anything by picking one over the other. The kicker is that even if you bought Home and find yourself needing one of the extra features (BitLocker or joining a domain), you can upgrade to big company edition for the price difference without making any real changes but paying the price (no need to reinstall, etc). For a given consumer there's literally zero reason to choose Pro until you need one of the features, and at that point you upgrade with Windows Anytime Upgrade and pay the price difference on the spot, and get your feature. Because of this there's literally zero compromising, or decision making at all really. You just get Home and keep it until the day you need Pro, a day that will never come for most people.
eof 14y ago
No 'features for encryption' for "regular Windows." seems short sighted. This is something that is only going to become more important as time goes on.
- wmf 14y ago
  For a home user, what attacks does BitLocker prevent? Where would home users escrow their keys?
  - ryannielsen 14y ago
    While not necessarily "attacks", BitLocker will help home users against data theft from the loss or theft of a laptop. Apple offers a full disk encryption variant of FileVault for every Lion user for this very reason. Thanks to Lion, I'm able to track my laptop and can remotely nuke the drive (with, granted, some big caveats) and, if the computer's not communicative, I at least know my data is encrypted behind some level of password protection. And I was able to turn it on through a quick series of sheets, one of which helped me set up an escrowed recovery key that's encrypted with keys only I know and stored with Apple. Should I not trust the encryption process, I'm able to opt out of escrow entirely. It would have been wonderful to see Microsoft acknowledge that everyone can benefit from full disk encryption, not just "pro" users.
sciurus 14y ago
'Windows Media Center will be available as an economical “media pack” add-on to Windows 8 Pro.' Does this mean it is not available for the non-Pro version of Windows 8?
- JumpCrisscross 14y ago
  I think it's included in the non-Pro version by default versus being a paid (that's how I'm reading "economical") add-on to the Pro version.
  - beagle3 14y ago
    Look for "no comprises" in this thread. If what you think is true, then .. Microsoft still doesn't get what "don't make me decide" means.
- duaneb 14y ago
  Well, it doesn't look like it will be available for Windows 8 RT, which is somewhat strange, considering that I would assume the ARM devices are media-centric.
K2h 14y ago
They need to integrate RT to remote very well to a real win8 or win7 machine and then I'm sold.
alan_cx 14y ago
I have not taken a detailed look at this Win 8, but from an "ignorant dumb punter" POV, from a brief look, it looks like it turns my expensive PC in to a dumbed down toy. It sort of reminds me of an old heavily restricted Win Terminal Server session with flash bits. Am I only seeing one mode and one can have the traditional windows look, or is that what we are all supposed to use now? If so, it look like a horrific wrench to get used to and there for very off putting.
- yuhong 14y ago
  Yea, you can switch to the Windows desktop from the Metro start screen, though the old Start menu is gone and the start screen replaces it.
- gnomesayin 14y ago
  There are some slick elements of the Metro UI design, but it does feel hemmed in, restrictive, and more akin to tablets.
grandalf 14y ago
As a long time linux user and recent OSX laptop user, I hadn't used Windows with any regularity since 2001. Recently I bought a copy of Windows 7 to run some niche software that lacks wine support and is cumbersome to run in a vm. My first impression was that Windows 7 was great, it appeared to have removed many of the rough edges from XP and Vista. Soon enough though I began to run into issues relating to legacy programs' security needs. Turns out, the only option I had was to run the programs as Administrator, since the crippled version of Windows 7 I bought has the ntfs permissions essentially disabled. Why of all things would the secure filesystem be one of the disabled features on the consumer focused OS version? This realization was a bit jarring, b/c I felt that the "tax" to use the OS properly in this case was fairly high. I can see charging more money for actual features, but NTFS permissions are clearly used behind the scenes in the Home version, so it feels more like using crippleware than opting out of advanced capabilities. So I hope that Windows 8 uses a more reasonable way to determine what is a basic and what is a pro feature.
- noblethrasher 14y ago
  The Home version just lacks a nice GUI for the security stuff. You can still manage file and directory permissions from the command line using cacls.exe. See http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb490872.aspx http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb490872.aspx
  - grandalf 14y ago
    Cool! Do you know if anyone has written a ui that wraps this?
    - ranit8 14y ago
      http://helgeklein.com/setacl-studio/ http://helgeklein.com/setacl-studio/ (seems to do that; haven't used it, though)
error54 14y ago
While we all have our gripes, I am enjoying the various ways developers can write software for Windows RT. I understand Microsoft is (probably) just trying to play catchup to iOs and Android in terms of apps but allowing developers to create apps using languages they already know (C, C++, or C#(via Visual Studio 11)) is a nice touch.
- dpark 14y ago
  Don't forget JS+HTML. That's a first-class option in WinRT. Disclaimer: MSFT employee, yadda yadda

57 points by Braasch 14y ago

Awesome! They listened to feedback and killed off the mess of SKUs. Now only if they'd allow disk encryption (Bitlocker) in the basic SKU, so non-Pro users can use the OS instead of having to install TrueCrypt.

loverobots 14y ago
I personally would choose TrueCrypt, but I understand the "let's go with default version" even if it's $100 or so more (upgrading Win 7 Home to the Bitlocker version costs about that). I suspect the ones with Bitlocker will do well if MS scares the crap out of big corps about losing private information

endlessvoid94 14y ago

I love that Apple doesn't make me choose between editions. I paid $30 and I got the new OS. Did I get the upgrade edition? What features did I pay for? No idea. I got it all, for $30. I didn't even want to read the whole table for all the features of windows 8. I just want Windows 8.

ckluis 14y ago
It's the best they've done so far...
- astrodust 14y ago
  Maybe they're following the grandmother rule, where if someone's grandmother can't figure it out after a ten minute explanation, they should go back and try again with a different plan.
- endlessvoid94 14y ago
  Yeah I definitely agree. I can't believe they got it down to 3. But I also can't help thinking "what the hell. haven't they learned?" It probably makes them more money overall. But with the cost of user confusion and possible frustration. I guess that's a tradeoff they're willing to make. Which is why I won't buy it for $100 bucks.
  - glesica 14y ago
    Well, if you look at the text at the bottom of the table, they've actually got it down to four, Windows 8 Enterprise will still exist as a separate SKU. So really they've only eliminated one edition (Ultimate) and changed the name of another (Starter -> RT). Not that it isn't an improvement. And the simplified naming is a big deal as well. Seriously, who thought "Home Premium" was a good idea? Premium compared to what?
    - recoiledsnake 14y ago
      .>..changed the name of another (Starter -> RT). What? You're way off base here. Please re-read article more carefully.
      - glesica 14y ago
        Windows 7 Starter was the edition for low-power devices. Previously, that meant netbooks, now it means tablets with ARM processors. The market segments are not identical, I realize that, but they're similar, hence my comment about basically renaming "Starter" to "RT". In fact, based on previous reporting, RT will even be targeted at "Home" users, which is also the same as Starter. I didn't mean they literally renamed the product, just that RT will now occupy a similar market position to that previously occupied by Windows 7 Starter.
        dpark 14y ago
        Not even a little bit. Win7 Starter was aimed at people who wanted a dirt-cheap netbook, with prices starting at about $250. It didn't even come with Aero. Windows RT is aimed at people who want a tablet. This is not the same market. This is the set of people who currently shell out $500 and up to buy an iPad, twice as much as a netbook. This is not the same market, and it's not a renaming of the cheapest OS. Starter was the most stripped-down OS. RT is actually the most feature-rich, due to the inclusion of Office. There's a bit of overlap, but only in the same way that there's overlap between people who buy a netbook and people who buy a ThinkPad.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
astrodust 14y ago
The local store ran out of single licenses for Snow Leopard so I just bought the family pack for something like $59. I didn't even feel ripped off. It used to be $120 for a single copy, so this is like half off! Microsoft still has the audacity to charge several hundred dollars for their OS. How is it that the cost of Windows keeps going up, but the cost of computers keeps going down?
- creamyhorror 14y ago
  "Microsoft still has the audacity to charge several hundred dollars for their OS." That's really disingenuous, given that 1) the consumer versions of Windows traditionally cost less than $100 2) Microsoft doesn't make money on hardware, whereas the cost of Apple's OSes is priced into Mac hardware You don't get to tut-tut Microsoft for an expensive OS (that runs on the consumer's choice of commodity hardware, cheap or expensive) when you pay a premium on a Mac all-in-one computer. You can justify Apple's OS pricing as being easy to stomach all you want - ultimately it's your choice to buy into the intended psychology of their pricing strategy - but don't try to paint that as a rational, fair comparison.
  - astrodust 14y ago
    "Windows 7 Home Premium" is about $100, but if you want professional you must pay significantly more. "Windows 7 Professional" is $149. "Windows 7 Ultimate" is $199. You can get OEM copies for less from places like NewEgg if you buy hardware, but never as low as the big OEMs pay. When a decent computer was over $2,000 the cost of Windows + DOS was around $85-100. Now the same computer costs about $500 and Windows is as much as $199.
- gouranga 14y ago
  Well that's a load of shit. They screwed you for $59!!! 1/ I've never bought Windows. I tend to buy new hardware when it comes along every 2-3 years (which is the typical lifespan of any hardware regardless of brand/vendor). 2/ And I didn't pay $1200 for the hardware either like Apple stuff. In fact I paid equiv $800 for a Lenovo with Windows 7. 3/ The non Apple hardware is EXACTLY the same and is cheaper (try a Lenovo T/X machine which are far better put together than Apple kit). Oh and I can change the battery without a screwdriver ;-) Oh and I can get the spare bits off ebay for virtually nothing. I love how Apple fanboys enjoy telling people how they didn't get ripped off when they did...
tshtf 14y ago
If you want the features of the operating system formerly known as OS X Server, you shell over $49.99 in the App Stare: http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/os-x-lion-server/id444376097?mt=12 http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/os-x-lion-server/id444376097?...
- sigzero 14y ago
  That isn't a direct comparison though because OS X Server and OS X are different beasts really (thought they share an awful lot). Joe Public would just buy "OS X" or in the Windows 7 world Joe Public would have to choose between "Windows 7 Starter/Home Basic/Home Premium/Professional/Enterprise/Ultimate" and in the Windows 8 world "Windows 8/8 Pro/RT" and would have to ask to know the differences between each.
  - zht 14y ago
    Joe Public would have Home Premium which comes pre-installed with their laptop/is whatever their laptop's factory reset DVD resets their laptop to. Joe Public would barely be aware that there are other versions out there much less the differences between them.
  - recoiledsnake 14y ago
    That is because Apple is not a big player in the enterprise space like Windows is, thus they don't see the benefit of the same differentiation that they have with OS X server.
  - unwiredben 14y ago
    Technically, they can't choose Windows RT since it's the ARM edition and only comes bundled with Windows tablets. I expect almost everyone will get Windows 8, and the "Pro" features will be easy to purchase as an upgrade through the new Windows Store.
sliverstorm 14y ago
On the other hand, I love it when companies let me choose roughly what functionality I need, and pay accordingly.
- astrodust 14y ago
  You mean like cable companies where if you want ESPN you can buy it, but if you don't want the History Channel you can opt out? If your product aspires to be that complicated, you're probably doing it wrong.
  - sliverstorm 14y ago
    The way I see it, the level of granularity I desire is directly related to the pricing. Something less expensive should have less granularity; something more expensive ought to have more granularity. Cable is a good candidate for the "more granularity" category both because it's naturally easy to segment, and because while monthly bills are not large, they of course add up fast. For an example of a product (rather than service) that can benefit from more granularity, consider computers. Even Apple, our paragon of non-granular pricing options, offers ~4 SKU's for their higher end laptops.
- OzzyB 14y ago
  Unless of course the lowest option, functionality wise, isn't less than $30.
  - cooldeal 14y ago
    The reason being that they've already got your money by selling you hardware at a good margin.
    - endlessvoid94 14y ago
      If consumers always thought about why a company charges what it does, then sure. But that's not how consumers think. Or companies, for the most part.
dewitt 14y ago
I agree that fewer editions is the way to go, but note that OS X has always had multiple SKUs as well: http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/os-x-lion/id444303913 http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/os-x-lion-server/id444376097 And customers first need to buy Snow Leopard separately, because you can't install Lion on its own, you can only upgrade to it (somewhat amazingly): http://www.apple.com/macosx/how-to-buy/ On a related note, over the weekend I tried to install Lion on a 5-year-old iMac. Was surprised to find out it's not supported on hardware even that far back. I hope they don't continue either trend with Mountain Lion. (And a footnote, Windows RT is for an entirely different architecture—ARM—and an entirely different class of devices, so no surprise there's a separate SKU for it.)
- 2muchcoffeeman 14y ago
  Legally, i.e. according to the TOS, you need Snow Leopard. You can install Lion on it's own http://www.macworld.com/article/1161087/install_lion_over_leopard.html http://www.macworld.com/article/1161087/install_lion_over_le... But it's a bit silly.
- endlessvoid94 14y ago
  It's far less of a big deal, though, with a $30 price tag. I don't dislike upgrading from Windows 7 to windows 8 because I think it will be hard. I don't want to pay upwards of $100 to install an OS on another machine. I'll definitely pay $30 though. That's the equivalent of beer money on a night out with a few other friends.
- beagle3 14y ago
  Apple officially supports 4-year old hardware but not older (or at least, did in the past). All Apple software produced 4 years after the last PPC apple was sold had still supported PPC, and only then it stopped. I think that's reasonable. While it's technically easier to support a 5-year old Intel Mac compared to a 5-year old PPC Mac, I still think Apple is reasonable in not doing that. It's not like your 4-year old hardware or software stops working. It's just that newer software gradually stops being available for your old hardware.
PhrosTT 14y ago
You paid the apple tax when you bought your computer. You can only access that $30 price after paying a huge premium for your hardware.
- pinaceae 14y ago
  exactly, that's why all the macbook air competitors are half the price of...wait a sec...
  - yread 14y ago
    Uh... yes, they are? Macbook air i5, 4gb, 128gb vs Asus zenbook i5, 4gb, 128gb (and with higher resolution display), 950$ vs 1300$ http://store.apple.com/us/configure/MC965LL/A http://store.apple.com/us/configure/MC965LL/A? http://www.google.com/products/catalog?client=opera&rls=en&q=asus+zenbook&oe=utf-8&channel=suggest&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=16088316992714711222&sa=X&ei=KwGNT_KZHsaWOo6kiPUK&ved=0CGkQ8wIwAw http://www.google.com/products/catalog?client=opera&rls=...
Michiel 14y ago
> I didn't even want to read the whole table for all the features of windows 8 Took me all of 5 minutes to digest that table (and decide I want Windows 8 Pro for Boot from VHD and Client Hyper-V). That's not too much time to choose something I'm going to be using for 3 years, is it?

r00fus 14y ago

One thing jumps out at me... so only WindowsRT has Microsoft Office - that's pretty much a required app for many business PC users and severe fragmentation if it's seriously not available on the other Windows8 editions. Am I missing something? Does this imply shift to "cloud" office?

walexander 14y ago
I think this implies "We already can sell Office on x86, but we're not even sure we can sell Windows on ARM".
- cooldeal 14y ago
  I think it's more like they're driving home the point... "Why get an artificially crippled consumption device when you can have the choice to hookup a keyboard/mouse and do real work?" ..by bundling Office with the ARM tablets.
sharth 14y ago
Windows RT is an ARM version of Windows. On that version, a touch optimized version of Microsoft Office will be included with the windows license.
klausa 14y ago
It means that it's the only one that comes bundled with Office - of course you'll be able to install Office on Windows 8, but you will have to purchase it separately.
modeless 14y ago
Of course Office is available on all Windows versions. It's included with Windows RT, which is an interesting choice. It's likely going to be crippled in some way, otherwise an ARM laptop suddenly looks like a far better value than an Intel laptop. Intel can't be happy about this.
- recoiledsnake 14y ago

roadnottaken 14y ago

They're taking 'Remote Desktop (host)' away from standard (non-pro) editions. That sucks.

DLarsen 14y ago
Nothing new here. The basic versions of Win7 didn't have it.
cooldeal 14y ago
They can't take away something that was not there in the first place.

ender7 14y ago

'Window Steam Blog'

joshu 14y ago
same here.

joejohnson 14y ago

That giant table looks pretty awful, but I guess this is a huge improvement for Windows releases. For desktop users, it's really a choice between Pro and regular. For Vista, it was this mess: http://www.helpwithwindows.com/WindowsVista/vista-which-version.html http://www.helpwithwindows.com/WindowsVista/vista-which-vers...

marklabedz 14y ago
Narrower, but longer.

GavinAnderegg 14y ago

Windows 8: Normal person edition Windows 8: I work in a big company edition Windows 8: At least I get Office for free edition Also what's with this: All editions of Windows 8 offer a no-compromise experience. If they're no compromise, why do I have to choose between them?

simonsarris 14y ago
Rather, the only compromise is price and for 100% of consumers that makes the choice completely obvious. There isn't Windows 8: Productivity Crippled Edition, or Windows 8: Red and Blue editions where both have pros and cons. You don't have to labor over the difference because you're not losing anything by picking one over the other. The kicker is that even if you bought Home and find yourself needing one of the extra features (BitLocker or joining a domain), you can upgrade to big company edition for the price difference without making any real changes but paying the price (no need to reinstall, etc). For a given consumer there's literally zero reason to choose Pro until you need one of the features, and at that point you upgrade with Windows Anytime Upgrade and pay the price difference on the spot, and get your feature. Because of this there's literally zero compromising, or decision making at all really. You just get Home and keep it until the day you need Pro, a day that will never come for most people.

eof 14y ago

No 'features for encryption' for "regular Windows." seems short sighted. This is something that is only going to become more important as time goes on.

wmf 14y ago
For a home user, what attacks does BitLocker prevent? Where would home users escrow their keys?
- ryannielsen 14y ago
  While not necessarily "attacks", BitLocker will help home users against data theft from the loss or theft of a laptop. Apple offers a full disk encryption variant of FileVault for every Lion user for this very reason. Thanks to Lion, I'm able to track my laptop and can remotely nuke the drive (with, granted, some big caveats) and, if the computer's not communicative, I at least know my data is encrypted behind some level of password protection. And I was able to turn it on through a quick series of sheets, one of which helped me set up an escrowed recovery key that's encrypted with keys only I know and stored with Apple. Should I not trust the encryption process, I'm able to opt out of escrow entirely. It would have been wonderful to see Microsoft acknowledge that everyone can benefit from full disk encryption, not just "pro" users.

sciurus 14y ago

'Windows Media Center will be available as an economical “media pack” add-on to Windows 8 Pro.' Does this mean it is not available for the non-Pro version of Windows 8?

JumpCrisscross 14y ago
I think it's included in the non-Pro version by default versus being a paid (that's how I'm reading "economical") add-on to the Pro version.
- beagle3 14y ago
  Look for "no comprises" in this thread. If what you think is true, then .. Microsoft still doesn't get what "don't make me decide" means.
duaneb 14y ago
Well, it doesn't look like it will be available for Windows 8 RT, which is somewhat strange, considering that I would assume the ARM devices are media-centric.

K2h 14y ago

They need to integrate RT to remote very well to a real win8 or win7 machine and then I'm sold.

alan_cx 14y ago

I have not taken a detailed look at this Win 8, but from an "ignorant dumb punter" POV, from a brief look, it looks like it turns my expensive PC in to a dumbed down toy. It sort of reminds me of an old heavily restricted Win Terminal Server session with flash bits. Am I only seeing one mode and one can have the traditional windows look, or is that what we are all supposed to use now? If so, it look like a horrific wrench to get used to and there for very off putting.

yuhong 14y ago
Yea, you can switch to the Windows desktop from the Metro start screen, though the old Start menu is gone and the start screen replaces it.
gnomesayin 14y ago
There are some slick elements of the Metro UI design, but it does feel hemmed in, restrictive, and more akin to tablets.

grandalf 14y ago

As a long time linux user and recent OSX laptop user, I hadn't used Windows with any regularity since 2001. Recently I bought a copy of Windows 7 to run some niche software that lacks wine support and is cumbersome to run in a vm. My first impression was that Windows 7 was great, it appeared to have removed many of the rough edges from XP and Vista. Soon enough though I began to run into issues relating to legacy programs' security needs. Turns out, the only option I had was to run the programs as Administrator, since the crippled version of Windows 7 I bought has the ntfs permissions essentially disabled. Why of all things would the secure filesystem be one of the disabled features on the consumer focused OS version? This realization was a bit jarring, b/c I felt that the "tax" to use the OS properly in this case was fairly high. I can see charging more money for actual features, but NTFS permissions are clearly used behind the scenes in the Home version, so it feels more like using crippleware than opting out of advanced capabilities. So I hope that Windows 8 uses a more reasonable way to determine what is a basic and what is a pro feature.

noblethrasher 14y ago
The Home version just lacks a nice GUI for the security stuff. You can still manage file and directory permissions from the command line using cacls.exe. See http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb490872.aspx http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb490872.aspx
- grandalf 14y ago
  Cool! Do you know if anyone has written a ui that wraps this?
  - ranit8 14y ago
    http://helgeklein.com/setacl-studio/ http://helgeklein.com/setacl-studio/ (seems to do that; haven't used it, though)

error54 14y ago

While we all have our gripes, I am enjoying the various ways developers can write software for Windows RT. I understand Microsoft is (probably) just trying to play catchup to iOs and Android in terms of apps but allowing developers to create apps using languages they already know (C, C++, or C#(via Visual Studio 11)) is a nice touch.

dpark 14y ago
Don't forget JS+HTML. That's a first-class option in WinRT. Disclaimer: MSFT employee, yadda yadda