5 ms·

Obligatory, not directed at you in particular since I'm sure you mean no offense, but just voicing a pet peeve: I grew up bilingual outside the US, and speak E

Obligatory, not directed at you in particular since I'm sure you mean no offense, but just voicing a pet peeve: I grew up bilingual outside the US, and speak English with a hybrid British/Indian/Middle Eastern accent (with some of my personal quirks, and mixing increasing amounts of various American accents over time). I can understand English in nearly any accent (Singaporean, Chinese, Vietnamese, Indian, Nigerian, eastern European) as long as the words involved are globally used and the grammar is passably queen's. Especially after hearing it for about an hour. And people who natively speak English with these various accents usually can understand my English better than they can an average American accent. Yet in this country, my accent is belittled, despite being perfectly understood and more versatile. Even by others who don't speak with the American accent! This is the problem of the "default accent" anywhere being referred to as "no accent", and therefore anything deviating is considered "having an accent". This makes "accent" a negative trait, scaling from 0-bad to heavy-bad. But if the vernacular were such that we said "American accent" instead of "no accent", then noone's accent is bad, just not used to. Most of my non-American peers who were raised on English have a better command of the language than my American ones, yet they are mocked for their accents as if they don't know the language, when in reality it's the Americans lack of familiarity with the language (as its used globally) preventing them from comprehending the language. So yes, put in more work, the world is shrinking and English is the global language (for better or worse). What you're saying is spoken from a position of privilege because the culture allows you to mock others' accents and imply your version of it is the correct one that everyone else should put in work to provide you with, rather than the other way around. Every time you hear English with an accent other than British, American or Australian, remember that it usually means the speaker knows at least one entire other language as well, probably one that you would sound like an idiot if you tried to speak it. Don't be rude or dismissive of their command of English. In fact, you were so close — you called it a "no accent am-english", when you could have just called it what it is — "an american accent".

freedomben 3y ago
[flagged]
- archagon 3y ago
  I don’t think it’s unreasonable to remind people that a “default” accent does not exist, and that AI-editing an accent out starts to feel a bit like dystopian identity erasure and homogenization. Even if we scope ourselves to Americans speaking English as a first language, there are dozens of diverse accents across the country.
  - ChuckMcM 3y ago
    I think this is one of those times when my Mom, understanding my desire to be understood and to ask questions about motives and related understanding, would observe the, oblivious to me, effect of inflaming the conversation and say, "Charles, this is not the time." :-)
    - archagon 3y ago
      I don’t like seeing a comment that’s relatively reasonable get greyed out just because it grinds somebody’s gears. Alas, I only have one counter-downvote to give, so I feel obliged to comment.
  - stevenicr 3y ago
    My original statement was wanting a translator device, hardware or software, so I could understand and learn better. There was not desire for identity erasure or homogenization, leave whoever's voice the way it is online, give me an option to translate it. I added more about my issue downthread. Diverse accents across the country. - absolutely! which is why I said 'no accent am-english.' (for me, as I can't learn well outside that) - and assuming if this tech exists it could help me, and perhaps be tweaked to change to other accents for other people.. also mentioned in downthread reply.
    - emmelaich 3y ago
      When I see the phrase "heavily-accented English" I think of Scottish and Geordie speakers. Extremely few of the Indian/Nepalese/Bengali/Pakistani speakers I have known have such a strong accent that it makes it difficult to understand. At least the younger ones.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
stevenicr 3y ago
I appreciate your sharing, and stating that you assume I meant no offense, and that your thoughts are not directed at me specifically. I could of been more specific, but my request for the tech to vary, I think would lead to specific options for different people. And actually to be even more.. not sure the word.. I want 'the Chicago accent' I think it's called, or midwest / no accent. Personally as much as I enjoy some entertainment from Jersy / NY accents, I would not volunteer to watch tutorials on tech taught by the Sopranos cast - as funny as that might be (and I get if you are from the NE, you may be learning just fine being taught with such a language style). As annoying some of the Cali style of language is, I can understand the words and meanings without squinting my ears and spending double the brain cycles trying to understand the words, while then interpreting the meaning, and then trying to put together concepts for understanding new ways of coding or using tech. I've run into folks in Louisana that I could not understand at all and had to ask for an interpreter at a gas station. From Florida to Chicago to Seattle down to Miss and Ala - I can hear what people are saying and learn without spending lots of extra energy trying to understand. With that being said, I understand there are parts around Miami where accents may be thicker (or not) - and with some folks even if using the rights words and grammar, I may need to slow down the speech to actually learn if they were teaching a class. The slow down and speed up options already exist with youtube. "So yes, put in more work" - I do try a bit. I don't mind accents with some folks and media.For example I can listen to and enjoy Shankar sharing via the 'hidden brain' series, partially because his accent is limited but also because the media requires less thought intensity. I have tried many youtubes, and bought a few courses taught from folks in India and other places where I just could not muster the energy. I literally squint with my ears and feel like my head gets hot trying to decipher what is being said, translate into what is meant, and how it should create new patterns of understanding in my brain. I can only do that for so long and I am done. Now I just skip any learning video that has non-am English speakers. When I consider courses to sign up for or buy, I have to research the authors / speakers and find video of them to hear the audio, because I just can't learn well that way. "other than British," - True story, a few years ago I had to call an ISP in Britain(?) and the person I got to to file an issue with, I could not understand them. I had ask 'what did you just say' many times. I laughed at myself for even thinking of saying 'can you slow down and speak clearer English please' - I mean, crazy... I was paying by the minute for the long distance at the time and it ended up being a 25 minute call that could of been 10 if I had a magic translate without accent device. "a position of privilege because the culture allows you to mock others' accents" - This is truly not about mocking accents, this is truly about my lack of ability to learn well. Yes, I would defintely sound like an idiot trying to speak another language. Like I said, I do not learn as well as some others. Truly not my intent to be rude. I apologize if the shortness came off that way, I was trying to be brief in the hope that there's a chance that some tech like this exists and someone here could point me to it. Before I posted, I DDG'ed it and found a couple of things attempting to be in that space with a 'speak to sales' type of 'you'll never afford this' button for info. I will never be dismissive of anyone's command of English, or other spoken language, or computer language or anything like that. There is no way for me to know someone else's situation and circumstances led them to their current command of whatever language. If someone is trying to learn more at any age; I applaud and encourage them - being rude or dismissive does not encourage more learning. "no accent am-english", when you could have just called it what it is — "an american accent". - Well maybe, but actually I meant to be more specific, as mentioned a bit above - I mean '"no accent" American accent' - because there are plenty 'American accent' types that I would want removed by a magic earpiece to make it easier for me to understand and learn.
lstamour 3y ago
There is another way of looking at this, in the context of the parent post: we could suggest that any accent could be converted to “no accent” where American accents are converted to British, or where standard Japanese is converted to a Nagoya pronunciation. Whatever seems like your preference of “no accent”. With this interpretation of the parent post, it’s not specifically about any particular English accent. I’ve been told by others that I have an accent yet I think I don’t have one - and honestly, I think most people have either encountered this - having an accent when you think you don’t have one - or haven’t travelled enough! :) And I mean, yes, there are people who know they don’t sound like whatever ideal accent they have in mind, and there are people who will make fun of accents - but, and I can’t stress this enough, depending on the context literally any accent can be made fun of, sadly. I’ve had people mock my “American” accent while travelling, for example. It sucks, but it’s not easy to single out any accent as “default” unless it’s literally enforced by a government and taught that way in schools. Last I checked, the US is not one of those countries and English is not as centrally controlled as e.g. French can be.
zer00eyz 3y ago
https://www.bbc.com/culture/article/20180207-how-americans-preserved-british-english https://www.bbc.com/culture/article/20180207-how-americans-p... What accent? Whose accent? Brits are as diverse accent wise as Americans, London, cockney, New England, Southern... A lot of Indians that I know have a very "proper" British accent, one that maybe a bit aristocratic, its quite an irony for a former colony. https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20220915-what-the-queens-english-told-us-about-a-changing-world https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20220915-what-the-queens-... The context matters, but so does history.
Dylan16807 3y ago
> In fact, you were so close — you called it a "no accent am-english", when you could have just called it what it is — "an american accent". There are many american accents. Your suggestion makes the sentence much less clear. And by specifying "american" they're already making it clear there is no such thing as a universal base accent for english.
kortilla 3y ago
This would carry some weight if you didn’t take an opportunity to take a shit on Americans’ English in the middle.

freedomben 3y ago

[flagged]

archagon 3y ago
I don’t think it’s unreasonable to remind people that a “default” accent does not exist, and that AI-editing an accent out starts to feel a bit like dystopian identity erasure and homogenization. Even if we scope ourselves to Americans speaking English as a first language, there are dozens of diverse accents across the country.
- ChuckMcM 3y ago
  I think this is one of those times when my Mom, understanding my desire to be understood and to ask questions about motives and related understanding, would observe the, oblivious to me, effect of inflaming the conversation and say, "Charles, this is not the time." :-)
  - archagon 3y ago
    I don’t like seeing a comment that’s relatively reasonable get greyed out just because it grinds somebody’s gears. Alas, I only have one counter-downvote to give, so I feel obliged to comment.
- stevenicr 3y ago
  My original statement was wanting a translator device, hardware or software, so I could understand and learn better. There was not desire for identity erasure or homogenization, leave whoever's voice the way it is online, give me an option to translate it. I added more about my issue downthread. Diverse accents across the country. - absolutely! which is why I said 'no accent am-english.' (for me, as I can't learn well outside that) - and assuming if this tech exists it could help me, and perhaps be tweaked to change to other accents for other people.. also mentioned in downthread reply.
  - emmelaich 3y ago
    When I see the phrase "heavily-accented English" I think of Scottish and Geordie speakers. Extremely few of the Indian/Nepalese/Bengali/Pakistani speakers I have known have such a strong accent that it makes it difficult to understand. At least the younger ones.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

stevenicr 3y ago

I appreciate your sharing, and stating that you assume I meant no offense, and that your thoughts are not directed at me specifically. I could of been more specific, but my request for the tech to vary, I think would lead to specific options for different people. And actually to be even more.. not sure the word.. I want 'the Chicago accent' I think it's called, or midwest / no accent. Personally as much as I enjoy some entertainment from Jersy / NY accents, I would not volunteer to watch tutorials on tech taught by the Sopranos cast - as funny as that might be (and I get if you are from the NE, you may be learning just fine being taught with such a language style). As annoying some of the Cali style of language is, I can understand the words and meanings without squinting my ears and spending double the brain cycles trying to understand the words, while then interpreting the meaning, and then trying to put together concepts for understanding new ways of coding or using tech. I've run into folks in Louisana that I could not understand at all and had to ask for an interpreter at a gas station. From Florida to Chicago to Seattle down to Miss and Ala - I can hear what people are saying and learn without spending lots of extra energy trying to understand. With that being said, I understand there are parts around Miami where accents may be thicker (or not) - and with some folks even if using the rights words and grammar, I may need to slow down the speech to actually learn if they were teaching a class. The slow down and speed up options already exist with youtube. "So yes, put in more work" - I do try a bit. I don't mind accents with some folks and media.For example I can listen to and enjoy Shankar sharing via the 'hidden brain' series, partially because his accent is limited but also because the media requires less thought intensity. I have tried many youtubes, and bought a few courses taught from folks in India and other places where I just could not muster the energy. I literally squint with my ears and feel like my head gets hot trying to decipher what is being said, translate into what is meant, and how it should create new patterns of understanding in my brain. I can only do that for so long and I am done. Now I just skip any learning video that has non-am English speakers. When I consider courses to sign up for or buy, I have to research the authors / speakers and find video of them to hear the audio, because I just can't learn well that way. "other than British," - True story, a few years ago I had to call an ISP in Britain(?) and the person I got to to file an issue with, I could not understand them. I had ask 'what did you just say' many times. I laughed at myself for even thinking of saying 'can you slow down and speak clearer English please' - I mean, crazy... I was paying by the minute for the long distance at the time and it ended up being a 25 minute call that could of been 10 if I had a magic translate without accent device. "a position of privilege because the culture allows you to mock others' accents" - This is truly not about mocking accents, this is truly about my lack of ability to learn well. Yes, I would defintely sound like an idiot trying to speak another language. Like I said, I do not learn as well as some others. Truly not my intent to be rude. I apologize if the shortness came off that way, I was trying to be brief in the hope that there's a chance that some tech like this exists and someone here could point me to it. Before I posted, I DDG'ed it and found a couple of things attempting to be in that space with a 'speak to sales' type of 'you'll never afford this' button for info. I will never be dismissive of anyone's command of English, or other spoken language, or computer language or anything like that. There is no way for me to know someone else's situation and circumstances led them to their current command of whatever language. If someone is trying to learn more at any age; I applaud and encourage them - being rude or dismissive does not encourage more learning. "no accent am-english", when you could have just called it what it is — "an american accent". - Well maybe, but actually I meant to be more specific, as mentioned a bit above - I mean '"no accent" American accent' - because there are plenty 'American accent' types that I would want removed by a magic earpiece to make it easier for me to understand and learn.

lstamour 3y ago

There is another way of looking at this, in the context of the parent post: we could suggest that any accent could be converted to “no accent” where American accents are converted to British, or where standard Japanese is converted to a Nagoya pronunciation. Whatever seems like your preference of “no accent”. With this interpretation of the parent post, it’s not specifically about any particular English accent. I’ve been told by others that I have an accent yet I think I don’t have one - and honestly, I think most people have either encountered this - having an accent when you think you don’t have one - or haven’t travelled enough! :) And I mean, yes, there are people who know they don’t sound like whatever ideal accent they have in mind, and there are people who will make fun of accents - but, and I can’t stress this enough, depending on the context literally any accent can be made fun of, sadly. I’ve had people mock my “American” accent while travelling, for example. It sucks, but it’s not easy to single out any accent as “default” unless it’s literally enforced by a government and taught that way in schools. Last I checked, the US is not one of those countries and English is not as centrally controlled as e.g. French can be.

zer00eyz 3y ago

https://www.bbc.com/culture/article/20180207-how-americans-preserved-british-english https://www.bbc.com/culture/article/20180207-how-americans-p... What accent? Whose accent? Brits are as diverse accent wise as Americans, London, cockney, New England, Southern... A lot of Indians that I know have a very "proper" British accent, one that maybe a bit aristocratic, its quite an irony for a former colony. https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20220915-what-the-queens-english-told-us-about-a-changing-world https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20220915-what-the-queens-... The context matters, but so does history.

Dylan16807 3y ago

> In fact, you were so close — you called it a "no accent am-english", when you could have just called it what it is — "an american accent". There are many american accents. Your suggestion makes the sentence much less clear. And by specifying "american" they're already making it clear there is no such thing as a universal base accent for english.

kortilla 3y ago

This would carry some weight if you didn’t take an opportunity to take a shit on Americans’ English in the middle.