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The main thing I recall about TP was that it came with simple, easy to understand code examples for every function that were organized logically and easy to fin

The main thing I recall about TP was that it came with simple, easy to understand code examples for every function that were organized logically and easy to find and use. So as a teenager who barely understood basic I could teach myself TP without the internet, just using the IDE. So many modern systems do not have anything even close to this. I wonder if its inherent in the nature of the simpler x86 DOS based systems of the time, where its simply impossible with modern pace of change, cross-platform needs, and complexity to have something like that.

vanderZwan 3y ago
Processing (P5) had this: you can select any string of text in its IDE anl search for it in the docs, and if it's one of the built-in functions or constants it will open the associated static html page that came installed with the software, so no internet nor server required. And despite being offline you can still navigate the docs too. This feels a lost basic skill in static site generation these days. It was the only creative coding framework that had complete, offline documentation like that at the time I might add. OpenFrameworks is still mostly autogenerated stubs for example. IMO it was one of the things that gave Processing an edge in educational contexts over all alternatives. I was pretty sad to see p5.js not fully continue that tradition and require that you go online to read the docs, and that it's not a static website but that text is rendered with javascript when you open it (still complete and with examples though). https://processing.org/ https://processing.org/ https://p5js.org/ https://p5js.org/
- enraged_camel 3y ago
  You speak in past tense but isn’t Processing still in use? I distinctly remember using it to program my Arduino just five years ago.
  - edu 3y ago
    Yes, it's in use and well alive. The latest release, 4.3, is from July 26, 2023. Although I think that p5.js is growing faster, as it's more accessible (browser IDE, not typed) and the artworks are easier to distribute online.
  - vanderZwan 3y ago
    It is, but I haven't used it in a long time so didn't want to imply anything about the current implementation, since I don't know if anything changed in the last decade. I hope it's still as good as I remember!
hulitu 3y ago
This was true also for TurboC. Today, good luck looking for examples.
ReleaseCandidat 3y ago
> I wonder if its inherent in the nature of the simpler x86 DOS based systems of the time I also learned Turbo Pascal without any books (I had a Basic book, because that came with the computer). But it was way easier. Drawing pixels was as easy as just selecting your (double buffered!) display mode and, well drawing pixels. Same with the reading of e.g. the joystick port or the mouse, you'd just read it.
pasc1878 3y ago
No it is because people don:t write documentation any more. New languages tend to be open source and the ethos is read the source. Which I think is wrong.
spiralx 3y ago
Same here. I'd been using GFA Basic for a couple of years when I came across Turbo Pascal which really helped - being a version of BASIC with code blocks, variable types including records, functions and procedures and even references - so I picked up Pascal just by reading the help documentation and studying the numerous very clear and helpful examples included on almost every page. This was a good couple of years before I discovered the Internet at university so there was no easy access to learning resources. I'd tried to pick up C a couple of times without much luck before learning TP, and it wasn't until after that that I then was able to transfer what I'd learnt from Pascal to C - although again that was aided by another great Borland product, C++ Builder :)

vanderZwan 3y ago

Processing (P5) had this: you can select any string of text in its IDE anl search for it in the docs, and if it's one of the built-in functions or constants it will open the associated static html page that came installed with the software, so no internet nor server required. And despite being offline you can still navigate the docs too. This feels a lost basic skill in static site generation these days. It was the only creative coding framework that had complete, offline documentation like that at the time I might add. OpenFrameworks is still mostly autogenerated stubs for example. IMO it was one of the things that gave Processing an edge in educational contexts over all alternatives. I was pretty sad to see p5.js not fully continue that tradition and require that you go online to read the docs, and that it's not a static website but that text is rendered with javascript when you open it (still complete and with examples though). https://processing.org/ https://processing.org/ https://p5js.org/ https://p5js.org/

enraged_camel 3y ago
You speak in past tense but isn’t Processing still in use? I distinctly remember using it to program my Arduino just five years ago.
- edu 3y ago
  Yes, it's in use and well alive. The latest release, 4.3, is from July 26, 2023. Although I think that p5.js is growing faster, as it's more accessible (browser IDE, not typed) and the artworks are easier to distribute online.
- vanderZwan 3y ago
  It is, but I haven't used it in a long time so didn't want to imply anything about the current implementation, since I don't know if anything changed in the last decade. I hope it's still as good as I remember!

hulitu 3y ago

This was true also for TurboC. Today, good luck looking for examples.

ReleaseCandidat 3y ago

> I wonder if its inherent in the nature of the simpler x86 DOS based systems of the time I also learned Turbo Pascal without any books (I had a Basic book, because that came with the computer). But it was way easier. Drawing pixels was as easy as just selecting your (double buffered!) display mode and, well drawing pixels. Same with the reading of e.g. the joystick port or the mouse, you'd just read it.

pasc1878 3y ago

No it is because people don:t write documentation any more. New languages tend to be open source and the ethos is read the source. Which I think is wrong.

spiralx 3y ago

Same here. I'd been using GFA Basic for a couple of years when I came across Turbo Pascal which really helped - being a version of BASIC with code blocks, variable types including records, functions and procedures and even references - so I picked up Pascal just by reading the help documentation and studying the numerous very clear and helpful examples included on almost every page. This was a good couple of years before I discovered the Internet at university so there was no easy access to learning resources. I'd tried to pick up C a couple of times without much luck before learning TP, and it wasn't until after that that I then was able to transfer what I'd learnt from Pascal to C - although again that was aided by another great Borland product, C++ Builder :)