4 ms·

The Parliament is very much the junior member compared with the Council and Commission

by Angostura 3y ago

toyg 3y ago
It still has ultimate veto powers.
- Angostura 3y ago
  I've been unable to find an instance of the European Parliament vetoing legislation
  - toyg 3y ago
    Plenty. Some recent examples: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/european-parliament-scraps-pesticides-bill-latest-setback-green-legislation-2023-11-22/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/european-parliament-scr... https://agenceurope.eu/en/bulletin/article/13274/20 https://agenceurope.eu/en/bulletin/article/13274/20 https://www.thejournal.ie/emissions-trade-system-fit-for-55-5785550-Jun2022/ https://www.thejournal.ie/emissions-trade-system-fit-for-55-... (Somewhat unsurprisingly, being currently dominated by right-wing parties, it happens often on "green" legislation...) It doesn't happen every day simply because 1) MEPs typically don't want to be seen as "Mr. No", and 2) plenary votes are the end of a long legislative process, involving several steps; the Commission will typically not bring legislation to the floor if it understands, in previous committees, that it will likely be voted down. The process is roughly this: EU Council (i.e. national governments) agree that "we should really do something about X"; the Commission drafts legislation to that effect, and brings it to Parliamentary committees; MEPs provide feedback and instructions on how to change things; Commission decides if the changes are acceptable, and if not they go back to Council asking "is this still ok if we do it in XY way?"; and back and forth they go, until the Commission decides to either withdraw it or put it to a plenary vote (in which case it's typically in a shape acceptable to Parliament, because nobody likes losing).
    - Angostura 3y ago
      But if you look at the first case, for example that was a rejection a first reading - not a definitive killing off. It's not quite clear what happens next - the Council of ministers may apparently decide to continue working on the legislation regardless of the Parliament's vote. In other words - it is not evidence of an "ultimate veto power"
      - tormeh 3y ago
        They can continue to work on it, but without the parliament's approval it cannot become law.
      - toyg 3y ago
        Council and Commission can work on whatever they want - if it's not ultimately approved by an EP plenary, it's not a Directive. Occasionally some governments will go ahead and introduce laws that they tried and failed to go past the EP, but that's just national politics in action.
    - soco 3y ago
      The entire irony of this is that all rightwingers are winning local elections by blaming the EU for wokeism, while they do have majority in all the EU organizations so whatever gets through against their tastes it's only through their own failures. But who cares about the truth, if the truth doesn't get you votes at home. It's just so disappointing that the regular Joe Voter, even though very loud about "doing their own research", never actually DO their own research, just swallow whatever they're told in their bubble.
    - agent327 3y ago
      Here's an overview of the political composition of the European Parliament: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Parliament#Elections https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Parliament#Elections How do you reckon it is "dominated by right-wing parties"? Those parties make up about 20% of the parliament, whereas left-wing parties make up some 35% (with the rest being centrists and 'other').
  - zajio1am 3y ago
    Once i read an analysis comparing EP legislative action to action of national parliaments and it said that EP has much higher rate of rejecting legislation. It makes sense - in parliamentary democracy, the coalition in government has majority in parliament and government members are often party leaders (or other important people in parties), so legislature could be pushed through parliament by party lines. In EP there is much weaker connection between government (EU Commission) and EP, which makes EP more independent.

The Parliament is very much the junior member compared with the Council and Commission

toyg 3y ago

It still has ultimate veto powers.

Angostura 3y ago
I've been unable to find an instance of the European Parliament vetoing legislation
- toyg 3y ago
  Plenty. Some recent examples: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/european-parliament-scraps-pesticides-bill-latest-setback-green-legislation-2023-11-22/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/european-parliament-scr... https://agenceurope.eu/en/bulletin/article/13274/20 https://agenceurope.eu/en/bulletin/article/13274/20 https://www.thejournal.ie/emissions-trade-system-fit-for-55-5785550-Jun2022/ https://www.thejournal.ie/emissions-trade-system-fit-for-55-... (Somewhat unsurprisingly, being currently dominated by right-wing parties, it happens often on "green" legislation...) It doesn't happen every day simply because 1) MEPs typically don't want to be seen as "Mr. No", and 2) plenary votes are the end of a long legislative process, involving several steps; the Commission will typically not bring legislation to the floor if it understands, in previous committees, that it will likely be voted down. The process is roughly this: EU Council (i.e. national governments) agree that "we should really do something about X"; the Commission drafts legislation to that effect, and brings it to Parliamentary committees; MEPs provide feedback and instructions on how to change things; Commission decides if the changes are acceptable, and if not they go back to Council asking "is this still ok if we do it in XY way?"; and back and forth they go, until the Commission decides to either withdraw it or put it to a plenary vote (in which case it's typically in a shape acceptable to Parliament, because nobody likes losing).
  - Angostura 3y ago
    But if you look at the first case, for example that was a rejection a first reading - not a definitive killing off. It's not quite clear what happens next - the Council of ministers may apparently decide to continue working on the legislation regardless of the Parliament's vote. In other words - it is not evidence of an "ultimate veto power"
    - tormeh 3y ago
      They can continue to work on it, but without the parliament's approval it cannot become law.
    - toyg 3y ago
      Council and Commission can work on whatever they want - if it's not ultimately approved by an EP plenary, it's not a Directive. Occasionally some governments will go ahead and introduce laws that they tried and failed to go past the EP, but that's just national politics in action.
  - soco 3y ago
    The entire irony of this is that all rightwingers are winning local elections by blaming the EU for wokeism, while they do have majority in all the EU organizations so whatever gets through against their tastes it's only through their own failures. But who cares about the truth, if the truth doesn't get you votes at home. It's just so disappointing that the regular Joe Voter, even though very loud about "doing their own research", never actually DO their own research, just swallow whatever they're told in their bubble.
  - agent327 3y ago
    Here's an overview of the political composition of the European Parliament: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Parliament#Elections https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Parliament#Elections How do you reckon it is "dominated by right-wing parties"? Those parties make up about 20% of the parliament, whereas left-wing parties make up some 35% (with the rest being centrists and 'other').
- zajio1am 3y ago
  Once i read an analysis comparing EP legislative action to action of national parliaments and it said that EP has much higher rate of rejecting legislation. It makes sense - in parliamentary democracy, the coalition in government has majority in parliament and government members are often party leaders (or other important people in parties), so legislature could be pushed through parliament by party lines. In EP there is much weaker connection between government (EU Commission) and EP, which makes EP more independent.