6 ms·

Started during the pandemic? My friend, I think you just might not remember how terribly people drove pre-pandemic as well.

ch4s3 3y ago
FWIW there's some insurance claims data to suggest that driving got worse in 2020 on average in the US.
mint2 3y ago
No, it’s true. People started driving like they were fleeing zombies during the pandemic, and the behaviors stuck. With the roads deserted people went faster and more carelessly. When things recovered and roads got crowded they didn’t tone their driving back down. I do insurance things. It’s well known in the field.
- paiute 3y ago
  I suspect vision zero policy and phones are also major contributors. Traffic Engineers across the country are setting traffic lights to reduce the flow of traffic to 20mph without changing the actual speed limit. It’s making people crazy.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - mjevans 3y ago
    They aren't fixing the real problem. Want ZERO fatalities? ISOLATE the Pedestrians from the cars entirely. Build it like Disney World does.
    - closewith 3y ago
      In urban areas, that is coming, but by banning/severely limiting car use in cities.
      - mrtesthah 3y ago
        It can’t come soon enough.
  - kqr 3y ago
    Strange! Where I live traffic lights are used for the opposite purpose: they are set up to improve flow by creating green waves that mean ypu don't have to care about orthogonal traffic. If the point was the reduce the flow, why wouldn't you make a roundabout?
    - closewith 3y ago
      > If the point was the reduce the flow, why wouldn't you make a roundabout? Roundabouts have far higher throughput than junctions with traffic lights.
      - kqr 3y ago
        But only because they allow for higher density, not higher speeds, which it seems GP was discussing.
      - consp 3y ago
        Not quite, traffic lights have the highest throughput if done properly (by quite a margin), but compared to the US style of lights they do.
    - WarOnPrivacy 3y ago
      > Strange! Where I live traffic lights are used for the opposite purpose: they are set up to improve flow by creating green waves that mean ypu don't have to care about orthogonal traffic. story: An out of state tech visiting our job site greeted us with "What the hell is wrong with the traffic lights in Florida!?" This was SW FL and I was a little confused because he had driven thru one of the most benign counties. I might be conditioned though. Just north of Tampa is a county where most traffic lights are timed to insure you reach the next one on the yellow. I've traveled thru it regularly for 30 years. Between 20 and 15 years ago it reached ~as bad as possible status and there it remains. Adding awful to bad are the drivers who've realized they can defeat much of this timing with sufficient speed.
    - paiute 3y ago
      That is what should be done, but it’s becoming rare. Bangerter Highway in Utah comes to mind as a good one. I know Colorado is a state big on vision zero policy, where if you go the posted speed you will hit every single light.
- netsharc 3y ago
  The lockdowns brought about a pandemic of selfishness. If x% of the people didn't like lockdown rules and they broke them and they were fine, y% of those probably absorbed the lesson that some other rules are useless. It didn't help that most, maybe all, governmental authorities were improvising their COVID response, some other percentage of people lost their fear/trust in authorities that way. Ha, societal breakdown indeed...
closewith 3y ago
Here in Ireland, this is visible in road deaths, which have risen significantly this year, reversing a trend of low road deaths as a result of an enormously successful road safety campaign over the previous 30 years. There's noticeably more serious accidents too, although the data won't be available until mid-2024 to confirm. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_road_traffic_accidents_deaths_in_the_Republic_of_Ireland_by_year https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_road_traffic_acciden...
- CalRobert 3y ago
  Notably, Ireland achieved a lot of their reductions in road deaths by taking all the people walking and biking and putting them in a car instead. For instance, compared to the mid-80's about 250% as many kids are driven to school, half as many take public transport, and half as many walk or bike. Certainly, when I lived there Ireland was a terrible place to bike or walk. https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cp6ci/p6cii/p6stp/ https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cp6ci/p6c...
collyw 3y ago
[flagged]
- rightbyte 3y ago
  That can't be causuality? Probably people that don't take vaccines are more reckless overall. 'Of course, skipping a COVID vaccine does not mean that someone will get into a car crash. Instead, the authors theorize that people who resist public health recommendations might also “neglect basic road safety guidelines.”'
  - collyw 3y ago
    More reckless by refusing a rushed product using a novel technology never before approved for human use? https://openvaers.com/covid-data https://openvaers.com/covid-data The whole thing is junk science.
    - Dylan16807 3y ago
      It was in the process of being approved. Yes, it was rushed. Sometimes rushing is appropriate. They still tested a lot. Getting covid can be extremely bad even if you survive, and most of the US caught it so far. The vaccine route is the safer route.
electrondood 3y ago
With police resources constrained, everyone started driving like insane assholes around here, and it hasn't gone back. I noticed significantly more people cheating the carpool lane, no longer using turn signals, intentionally blowing red lights and stop signs, etc. Driving culture has changed, at least in this area.

ch4s3 3y ago

FWIW there's some insurance claims data to suggest that driving got worse in 2020 on average in the US.

mint2 3y ago

No, it’s true. People started driving like they were fleeing zombies during the pandemic, and the behaviors stuck. With the roads deserted people went faster and more carelessly. When things recovered and roads got crowded they didn’t tone their driving back down. I do insurance things. It’s well known in the field.

paiute 3y ago
I suspect vision zero policy and phones are also major contributors. Traffic Engineers across the country are setting traffic lights to reduce the flow of traffic to 20mph without changing the actual speed limit. It’s making people crazy.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- mjevans 3y ago
  They aren't fixing the real problem. Want ZERO fatalities? ISOLATE the Pedestrians from the cars entirely. Build it like Disney World does.
  - closewith 3y ago
    In urban areas, that is coming, but by banning/severely limiting car use in cities.
    - mrtesthah 3y ago
      It can’t come soon enough.
- kqr 3y ago
  Strange! Where I live traffic lights are used for the opposite purpose: they are set up to improve flow by creating green waves that mean ypu don't have to care about orthogonal traffic. If the point was the reduce the flow, why wouldn't you make a roundabout?
  - closewith 3y ago
    > If the point was the reduce the flow, why wouldn't you make a roundabout? Roundabouts have far higher throughput than junctions with traffic lights.
    - kqr 3y ago
      But only because they allow for higher density, not higher speeds, which it seems GP was discussing.
    - consp 3y ago
      Not quite, traffic lights have the highest throughput if done properly (by quite a margin), but compared to the US style of lights they do.
  - WarOnPrivacy 3y ago
    > Strange! Where I live traffic lights are used for the opposite purpose: they are set up to improve flow by creating green waves that mean ypu don't have to care about orthogonal traffic. story: An out of state tech visiting our job site greeted us with "What the hell is wrong with the traffic lights in Florida!?" This was SW FL and I was a little confused because he had driven thru one of the most benign counties. I might be conditioned though. Just north of Tampa is a county where most traffic lights are timed to insure you reach the next one on the yellow. I've traveled thru it regularly for 30 years. Between 20 and 15 years ago it reached ~as bad as possible status and there it remains. Adding awful to bad are the drivers who've realized they can defeat much of this timing with sufficient speed.
  - paiute 3y ago
    That is what should be done, but it’s becoming rare. Bangerter Highway in Utah comes to mind as a good one. I know Colorado is a state big on vision zero policy, where if you go the posted speed you will hit every single light.
netsharc 3y ago
The lockdowns brought about a pandemic of selfishness. If x% of the people didn't like lockdown rules and they broke them and they were fine, y% of those probably absorbed the lesson that some other rules are useless. It didn't help that most, maybe all, governmental authorities were improvising their COVID response, some other percentage of people lost their fear/trust in authorities that way. Ha, societal breakdown indeed...

closewith 3y ago

Here in Ireland, this is visible in road deaths, which have risen significantly this year, reversing a trend of low road deaths as a result of an enormously successful road safety campaign over the previous 30 years. There's noticeably more serious accidents too, although the data won't be available until mid-2024 to confirm. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_road_traffic_accidents_deaths_in_the_Republic_of_Ireland_by_year https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_road_traffic_acciden...

CalRobert 3y ago
Notably, Ireland achieved a lot of their reductions in road deaths by taking all the people walking and biking and putting them in a car instead. For instance, compared to the mid-80's about 250% as many kids are driven to school, half as many take public transport, and half as many walk or bike. Certainly, when I lived there Ireland was a terrible place to bike or walk. https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cp6ci/p6cii/p6stp/ https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cp6ci/p6c...

collyw 3y ago

[flagged]

rightbyte 3y ago
That can't be causuality? Probably people that don't take vaccines are more reckless overall. 'Of course, skipping a COVID vaccine does not mean that someone will get into a car crash. Instead, the authors theorize that people who resist public health recommendations might also “neglect basic road safety guidelines.”'
- collyw 3y ago
  More reckless by refusing a rushed product using a novel technology never before approved for human use? https://openvaers.com/covid-data https://openvaers.com/covid-data The whole thing is junk science.
  - Dylan16807 3y ago
    It was in the process of being approved. Yes, it was rushed. Sometimes rushing is appropriate. They still tested a lot. Getting covid can be extremely bad even if you survive, and most of the US caught it so far. The vaccine route is the safer route.

electrondood 3y ago

With police resources constrained, everyone started driving like insane assholes around here, and it hasn't gone back. I noticed significantly more people cheating the carpool lane, no longer using turn signals, intentionally blowing red lights and stop signs, etc. Driving culture has changed, at least in this area.