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FWIW, the computers don’t tend to break. The things that do break are essentially the same as they were 20 years ago. The bells and whistles are mostly for crea
by SkyPuncher 3y ago
FWIW, the computers don’t tend to break. The things that do break are essentially the same as they were 20 years ago. The bells and whistles are mostly for creatures comfort. The mechanical components haven’t changed much.
The only thing that I couldn’t fix on my own in my 2020 vs my 2006 was re-alignment of lane keep system after replacing the windshield.
- _AzMoo 3y agoI have a 2021 Subaru Forester and the sensors are a nightmare. The computers are fine, but the sensors are extremely problematic.
- metadat 3y agoThe littany of sensors begin to go bad after 6-7 years in many newer cars.
- 1-6 3y agoI’ve had malfunctioning servos that can’t seem to keep still. It affects the recirculation and air controls but that’s about it.
- calvinmorrison 3y agoThat's not a new problem. My experience is the most reliable actuators are simple vacuum spring design but they're so much more complex to route and take up space.
- richiebful1 3y agoI wish we never got rid of manual windows. Those servos are the most annoying thing I've had to replace on my vehicle yet
- SkyPuncher 3y agoWhich sensors? All of the important sensors have been in cars for years and years at this point.
- Spooky23 3y agoLots of sensors and features on my 2016 Honda have trouble. Not as bad as a Cadillac or Mercedes, but bad nonetheless. The worst is software problems. The dealer techs don’t have the tools, training or interest to sift through TSBs and upgrade systems.
- _yb2s 3y agoAs a car nerd, a popular opinion is to avoid cars with computers because they could fail anytime, and can't be macgyvered into a repair roadside.... but after ~50 years of computerized cars, it seems that simple solid state computers, ruggedized and often potted in epoxy essentially never fail. And moreover, they can both give early warnings before you're stranded, and diagnostic data that can be used to pinpoint and fix a problem in the middle of nowhere. I especially love the mid-90s and newer VWs, which will report through VCDS software literally every part failure, or sensor output, from any system in the car.
- smoyer 3y agoI have a couple of '71 VWs and you can fix almost anything on the with toothpicks and Scotch tape. They just run because they're so simple ... You can actually count the wires in the harness and read the color codes! Thing thing that drives me nuts are the mechanical voltage regulator - they are finicky and today's hardened solid state devices near them in every way.
- dasv 3y agoIf you don't intend to keep them fully stock there are modern solid-state drop-in replacements for reasonable prices! Given that they are fairly simple cars building one yourself from common electronic parts would not be too difficult either.
- _yb2s 3y agoSimplicity is huge for reliability… but Volvos from that same early 70s era were also crazy simple yet used solid state boxes to control everything… and were way more reliable than the VWs.
- Sophistifunk 3y agoIt's not computers breaking you need to fear, but your engine management refusing to turn on when you've put a in third-party window washer motor that doesn't provide the correct response to some proprietary encrypted canbus query.
- 3y ago
- rapind 3y agoThe thing most likely to cause an accident with my car is the horrible Apple Car Play system via USB. I don't know if it's a VW problem, Apple problem, or just a bad combination of the two. It can be so frustrating and fiddly that I'll just pull over to deal with it. I've been considering going old school with a mount and just use the car speakers via bluetooth instead.
- GoodDreams 3y agoNot sure if I had the same issues but my situation was resolved by cleaning my lightning port and using a quality cable.
- hedgehog 3y agoCar Play has been reliable for me in a Toyota. Now the Toyota software, twice in two years I've pulled over to power cycle the car because the head unit was wedged. I'm not sure how that compares to other cars but never had to reboot any of the many rentals I've used over the years.
- hot_gril 3y agoCarPlay is hit-or-miss. It's been totally unusable in every Chevy I've driven and moderately bad in some other cars, but it worked flawlessly in my last Chrysler rental car of all things. You know what's even better than a working CarPlay, the cupholder in my own car that can hold my phone in a nicely visible spot.
- girvo 3y agoVW problem. My missus' VW Polo has the same problems. I did work out that a brand new, known-good cable and working out that pressing and holding the power button to hard-reset the dash would get it to finally start connecting every time (or connect properly after it's done its "I'm useless" failure mode)
- rapind 3y agoThe reboot tech is good to know, thanks. Yeah it just kinda fails randomly at times and I'm using a quality cable with a clean port.
- dahart 3y agoThe chips themselves don’t tend break, but wires and connectors and sensors all do tend to break, and they are effectively part of the computer system. Today, it’s practically moot where you draw the line. Something mechanical on my CRV broke somewhere, and the computer didn’t know what it was, and so the dealer didn’t know what it was, and the computer tended to shut down over unknown problems, and it eventually caused a cascading failure of physical mechanical components when the timing belt melted and it took out the alternator with it. > The bells and whistles are mostly for creatures comfort. This is increasingly (and rapidly) less and less true. Traction control, lane assist, adaptive cruise control, and emergency braking, are all things computer controlled (and things that are programmed to disable when the computer barfs. You can argue these are creature comforts, but in my experience they are becoming necessary modern safety features. In a previous car, the sound system wigged out completely when it was only 5 years old. That’s a creature comfort, except really annoying to go without, and it was insanely expensive to replace, several thousands for a pretty basic stereo.
- water9 3y agoIt’s actually the capacitors that fail first because they have a liquid electrolyte
- twisteriffic 3y agoI have never seen an electrolytic capacitor fail in an automotive context, and I've owned my fair share of capacitor plague-era vehicles. I'd imagine it's a combination of preferring other types of capacitor for that environment and not buying the cheapest shit they can find in the markets that day like Dell did.
- water9 3y agoYeah, it could also be a product of where you live. I live in the southwest us so it’s more area here and likely to dry them out faster. You’re definitely right about good quality not being as good as it used to be
- 3y ago
- BeetleB 3y agoDo computers last 20+ years in cars? As others have mentioned, sensors and stuff related to safety fail all the time. I recently paid $800 to re-enable the safety systems in my (newer) car after a part failed. I've never had such expensive repairs on my 20 year old car.
- lightedman 3y agoDo computers last 20+ years in cars? Well, my 2005 SAAB 9-3T is still working quite nicely outside of a failing turbo and the injectors needing replacing. Computer still tells me when lights are out, if I'm having A/B throttle sensor voltage issues, etc. But that's 18 years old. Give me two more and we can have this convo again.
- zeusk 3y agoMy 2001 BMW with electronic throttle and fuel injection is doing just fine, the weakest point is plastic in the engine bay gets brittle and starts rotting (especially around coolant system).
- BeetleB 3y agoAh, but probably a single repair on that BMW will be more expensive than 5 years of repairs on my Corolla.
- kjkjadksj 3y agoOnly if you do your repairs at the dealership
- tirant 3y agoIt depends on the country. BMW are well known by any mechanic and parts are widely available, OEM and aftermarket. In my experience BMWs are not more expensive to repair than any Toyota or VW, but due to the increased set of features they have a higher failure surface.
- BluePen7 3y agoAs a BMW owner, I actually found the repair pricing quite comparable. Maybe not quite to a Corolla, but it was to a Lexus. If anything the Lexus was a bit more, due to how common BMW specialist shops are, while there's none for Lexus. The issue for me was the frequency of the repairs, 5 years of Lexus ownership cost me less than any 3-4 month period of BMW ownership over the 2 years I owned it. I suppose I can only compare 2-3 repairs, cause the other dozen repairs for the BMW simply didn't break on the Lexus, nor did it spring any of oil leaks my BMW was famed for.
- seanmcdirmid 3y agoMy Xdrive unit in my BMW died 3 months after buying it. I thought...ya, out of all the things that could break in my car...it was the bell and whistle computer. I'm betting it was just a capacitor or something, but of course you have to get a whole new one as a replacement.
- bane 3y agoOne thing that years and years of looking at CR has attuned me to is that car electronics break all the time and are the reason why many brands have poor reliability scores even though the engines run, the lights turn on, and the doors open and close (most of the time). German and American cars seem to have a very frustrating time with reliable electronics compared to Asian brands for some reason, and the problems persist year after year. For especially electronic heavy brands, typically higher-end ones the problem can become particularly pronounced, the bottom ranked vehicles on this list are mostly high-end, expensive, and packed full of gear (except for a few). Electric vehicles and PHEVs have the biggest problems being almost entirely electronics.
- notyofriend 3y agoAsian brands use more simple and time tested systems. They are about 3-5 years behind in most cases but it pays off in reliability
- anymouse123456 3y agoMy 2015 Dodge RAM with a failed ECU begs to differ. Wouldn't be so bad except replacements aren't expected to be available until April 2024.
- SkyPuncher 3y agoBut, that's not unique to a "computer loaded car". ECU's have been a standard component for decades.
- anymouse123456 3y agoGranted. Good point. :-)
- TrueSlacker0 3y ago"The only thing that I couldn’t fix on my own in my 2020 vs my 2006 was re-alignment of lane keep system after replacing the windshield. " That car isn't old enough for anything to be breaking yet. It's barely 4 years old. In a 2006 so many basic simple things break like the clip to hold down the center console, the knob on the AC control. Not to mention the suspension, fan on the blower, belts, power window on at least 1 window. And you expect that touchscreen and software to make it?
- kjkjadksj 3y agoSounds like someone has never had to replace a wiring harness or deal with electrical “gremlins.” Also a lot of parts are just really terribly made these days. I had a 2000 car that was already succombing to modern plastic everything crap philosophy. Basically all the motors controlling the windows or power door locks were shot or close to shot. The internal gearing was all plastic and had gone brittle. The fix? Take apart the internal panelling and replace the whole motor assembly with a new unit that has the same fundamental issue with it, even though a five cent gear or clutch is what broke, until you can source no more new oem units, at which point the part is broken until the end of time since all the junkyard stock will also be rotting apart. This is the world we are building for ourselves.
- BluePen7 3y agoDepends on how well the wiring is done in the first place. I am an enthusiast of the entire reliability spectrum of vehicle brands. There are people on Range Rover forums wondering why their infotainment doesn't work half the time in their brand new SUV, meanwhile when I goggled why my windshield wipers wouldn't turn off in my 97 Tacoma, I found a thread that suggested a wire would wear through in 200-300k miles (which was my mileage). I owned a BMW 325i that was full of gremlins, then owned the competing Lexus IS350 (with far more features), to double the age and mileage without 1/10th of the issues.
- vishnugupta 3y ago> The mechanical components haven’t changed much. But the control/configuration of mechanical components is now being done from touch panel and if it becomes unresponsive then it’s as good as mechanical component breakdown.
- pantulis 3y agoSadly even old computers will being to break at some point. My Ford Focus is old enough to drink too and the central unit has become flaky, like numbers disappearing from the odometer and the speedometer going to 0 in mid route. The repair shop said those were dirty contacts, then the soldering, then they took it to a 3rd party... they didn't solve anything. The mechanics of the car are still good, but I feel like its time has come because now I'm not feeling confident of taking it for a long trip.