4 ms·

Toyota's profit more than doubled due to hybrid demand is all time high

34 points by teleforce 3y ago

legitster 3y ago
I think EVs are having a hangover moment and Toyota was in the right all along. Sure, you can make an EV with 300 mile range that will only be tapped once or twice a year. Or you can use the same amount of lithium and make 10x as many PHEV vehicles with 30 miles of range that gets tapped every day. I understand the goal is to electrify everything eventually, but given that the current production bottleneck is batteries, making the most efficient use of the batteries we do make seems smart.
- tw04 3y ago
  The batteries aren’t a bottleneck. Auto dealers actively trying not to sell EVs because mfgs are trying to prevent price gouging, combined with politics are the primary issues. https://koreajoongangdaily.joins.com/news/2023-11-14/business/industry/Korean-battery-makers-cut-US-jobs-as-EV-demand-declines/1912836 https://koreajoongangdaily.joins.com/news/2023-11-14/busines...
- DoesntMatter22 3y ago
  None of this comment really makes much sense. Toyota was right all along? Toyota has been saying that hydrogen is the future which is just ridiculous considering how inefficient and dangerous it is. Also there is no bottleneck in batteries, in fact battery prices are dropping rapidly and more capacity is coming online. An EV, not hybrid, is on track to be the best selling car in the world this year. Most of the problem is that legacy automakers were caught flat footed by the take off in electric vehicle sales and cobbled together a lot of poorly made vehicles or ones that were incompatible with Supercharger locations. Other than Tesla and BYD there aren't many companies doing electric cars well. Electric cars are still exploding in market share and that isn't going to change. It's going to grow
  - anonymouskimmer 3y ago
    > Toyota has been saying that hydrogen is the future which is just ridiculous considering how inefficient and dangerous it is. https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a41103863/hydrogen-cars-fcev/ https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a41103863/hydrogen-car... : The three hydrogen cars sold in recent years all have EPA-rated ranges of 300 miles or more, though, like EVs, that range falls substantially at higher speeds. : HFCVs are widely considered as safe as any other car; since the high-pressure tanks are designed to survive even the highest-speed crashes without leaking or breaching. https://www.science.org/content/article/hidden-hydrogen-earth-may-hold-vast-stores-renewable-carbon-free-fuel https://www.science.org/content/article/hidden-hydrogen-eart... : These researchers say water-rock reactions deep within the Earth continuously generate hydrogen, which percolates up through the crust and sometimes accumulates in underground traps. There might be enough natural hydrogen to meet burgeoning global demand for thousands of years, according to a U.S. Geological Survey (USGS) model that was presented in October 2022 at a meeting of the Geological Society of America. And even a US company prospecting for geological hydrogen: http://nh2e.com/ http://nh2e.com/
    - DoesntMatter22 3y ago
      It's an impossible tech. The facilities to dispatch hydro cost millions. Meanwhile you can plug an ev into basically any electric outlet.
      - anonymouskimmer 3y ago
        > Meanwhile you can plug an ev into basically any electric outlet. For slow charging, yes. The infrastructure upgrades for even slow charging, much less fast charging, also are very expensive, at least over a land mass as large and sparsely populated as North America. > The facilities to dispatch hydro cost millions https://www.anl.gov/aet/article/argonnes-quest-for-lowercost-hydrogen-at-the-pump https://www.anl.gov/aet/article/argonnes-quest-for-lowercost... : Elgowainy and Reddi expect the design to save refueling station operators up to 30% on their equipment costs by minimizing the compressor’s down time.
ZeroGravitas 3y ago
One of the ridiculous elements of the EV culture war is that many planned "bans" of ICE don't actually ban hybrids. Yet people are melting down in rage because they feel they desperately need to buy an inefficient car in 7 years time, e.g. the recent UK change pushed the ICE ban back 5 years to the same date that the hybrid ban would come in.
HackerThemAll 3y ago
Give people excess money and they'll always spend it in the stupidest way possible, such as on impractical new cars, clothes having a specific combination of letters on them (such as e.g. "B,a,l,e,n,c,i,a,g,a") or houses they can't afford just to show off.
Proven 3y ago
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34 points by teleforce 3y ago

I think EVs are having a hangover moment and Toyota was in the right all along. Sure, you can make an EV with 300 mile range that will only be tapped once or twice a year. Or you can use the same amount of lithium and make 10x as many PHEV vehicles with 30 miles of range that gets tapped every day. I understand the goal is to electrify everything eventually, but given that the current production bottleneck is batteries, making the most efficient use of the batteries we do make seems smart.

tw04 3y ago
The batteries aren’t a bottleneck. Auto dealers actively trying not to sell EVs because mfgs are trying to prevent price gouging, combined with politics are the primary issues. https://koreajoongangdaily.joins.com/news/2023-11-14/business/industry/Korean-battery-makers-cut-US-jobs-as-EV-demand-declines/1912836 https://koreajoongangdaily.joins.com/news/2023-11-14/busines...
DoesntMatter22 3y ago
None of this comment really makes much sense. Toyota was right all along? Toyota has been saying that hydrogen is the future which is just ridiculous considering how inefficient and dangerous it is. Also there is no bottleneck in batteries, in fact battery prices are dropping rapidly and more capacity is coming online. An EV, not hybrid, is on track to be the best selling car in the world this year. Most of the problem is that legacy automakers were caught flat footed by the take off in electric vehicle sales and cobbled together a lot of poorly made vehicles or ones that were incompatible with Supercharger locations. Other than Tesla and BYD there aren't many companies doing electric cars well. Electric cars are still exploding in market share and that isn't going to change. It's going to grow
- anonymouskimmer 3y ago
  > Toyota has been saying that hydrogen is the future which is just ridiculous considering how inefficient and dangerous it is. https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a41103863/hydrogen-cars-fcev/ https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a41103863/hydrogen-car... : The three hydrogen cars sold in recent years all have EPA-rated ranges of 300 miles or more, though, like EVs, that range falls substantially at higher speeds. : HFCVs are widely considered as safe as any other car; since the high-pressure tanks are designed to survive even the highest-speed crashes without leaking or breaching. https://www.science.org/content/article/hidden-hydrogen-earth-may-hold-vast-stores-renewable-carbon-free-fuel https://www.science.org/content/article/hidden-hydrogen-eart... : These researchers say water-rock reactions deep within the Earth continuously generate hydrogen, which percolates up through the crust and sometimes accumulates in underground traps. There might be enough natural hydrogen to meet burgeoning global demand for thousands of years, according to a U.S. Geological Survey (USGS) model that was presented in October 2022 at a meeting of the Geological Society of America. And even a US company prospecting for geological hydrogen: http://nh2e.com/ http://nh2e.com/
  - DoesntMatter22 3y ago
    It's an impossible tech. The facilities to dispatch hydro cost millions. Meanwhile you can plug an ev into basically any electric outlet.
    - anonymouskimmer 3y ago
      > Meanwhile you can plug an ev into basically any electric outlet. For slow charging, yes. The infrastructure upgrades for even slow charging, much less fast charging, also are very expensive, at least over a land mass as large and sparsely populated as North America. > The facilities to dispatch hydro cost millions https://www.anl.gov/aet/article/argonnes-quest-for-lowercost-hydrogen-at-the-pump https://www.anl.gov/aet/article/argonnes-quest-for-lowercost... : Elgowainy and Reddi expect the design to save refueling station operators up to 30% on their equipment costs by minimizing the compressor’s down time.

ZeroGravitas 3y ago

One of the ridiculous elements of the EV culture war is that many planned "bans" of ICE don't actually ban hybrids. Yet people are melting down in rage because they feel they desperately need to buy an inefficient car in 7 years time, e.g. the recent UK change pushed the ICE ban back 5 years to the same date that the hybrid ban would come in.

HackerThemAll 3y ago

Give people excess money and they'll always spend it in the stupidest way possible, such as on impractical new cars, clothes having a specific combination of letters on them (such as e.g. "B,a,l,e,n,c,i,a,g,a") or houses they can't afford just to show off.

Proven 3y ago

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