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I think you egregiously misunderstood that comment. Of course those silly examples are silly; that's the point, they are silly in the same way and for the same

I think you egregiously misunderstood that comment. Of course those silly examples are silly; that's the point, they are silly in the same way and for the same reason that DVD licenses are silly. Do you believe in things that look like contracts and sound like contracts and are full of impressive-sounding legalese and were written by a team of lawyers, but are despite that a load of old tosh?

WendyTheWillow 3y ago
So if contracts exist, can a contract exist where Steve offers a copy of his work to Bob, but only on the condition that Bob agree to not share that copy with anyone else? Could such a contract exist?
- ineptech 3y ago
  Of course contracts exist, of course contingent agreements exist, please make your point. edit to add: it sounds like Bob just signed an NDA.
  - WendyTheWillow 3y ago
    Would it be immoral for Bob to agree to such a contract, but then change his mind after obtaining the copy of the work and begin sharing it with others?
    - ineptech 3y ago
      I feel like I'm talking to an LLM with a very limited token history. Yes, it would, if Bob actually agreed to a real contract. Have I not made it clear why I don't think purchasing a DVD constitutes agreeing to the license attached to it? That was literally the point of my very first reply to you: the difference between agreeing to something and being told "I declare that you agree to this".
      - WendyTheWillow 3y ago
        So, if we agree on these concepts for an explicit contract, do you believe in implicit agreement to contracts? This might take the form of, e.g. an expectation of refund if this DVD ends up being blank, or the belief that the DVD won't contain a virus or cut you when you grab the edge. They're not written on the side of the DVD, and they're not declared, "Because you read this, you must agree," but they still exist as a set of expectations and assumptions that come with social interactions (including product sales). In other words, are there implicit rules that govern any given exchange beyond those that are explicitly stated before the exchange occurs? Really, rules that govern social interaction generally. Do those rules exist?
        ineptech 3y ago
        A lot to unpack here, sorry to fisk: > do you believe in implicit agreement to contracts? This might take the form of, e.g. an expectation of refund if this DVD ends up being blank, or the belief that the DVD won't contain a virus or cut you when you grab the edge. In a word, no. I expect the DVD to work and not have a virus because consumer products are usually subject to an implied warranty of merchantability (which is very much not an ethical agreement but a legal obligation imposed by courts). The idea of a corporation replacing a faulty product because it's the right thing to do sounds like something from a children's book with talking badgers who wear waistcoats and serve tea. The real-world DVD manufacturer would dump toxic waste in my back yard if they thought the savings would exceed the fine. > they still exist as a set of expectations and assumptions that come with social interactions (including product sales). Purchasing a product from a corporation is not a social interaction. Not sure what else to say beyond referring you to the definition of "social." > In other words, are there implicit rules that govern any given exchange beyond those that are explicitly stated before the exchange occurs? Really, rules that govern social interaction generally. Do those rules exist? There are implict rules for all sorts of situations, sure. People tend to disagree on what they are, which is why we have so many explicit rules, e.g. copyright law and the CFAA and so forth. But sure, implicit rules can exist. "Don't fart in a crowded elevator" might be one. Another might be, "If you have a point to make, explain it clearly as opposed to dragging it out with leading rhetorical questions." What implicit rule is it that you think applies to purchasing stuff?

WendyTheWillow 3y ago

So if contracts exist, can a contract exist where Steve offers a copy of his work to Bob, but only on the condition that Bob agree to not share that copy with anyone else? Could such a contract exist?

ineptech 3y ago
Of course contracts exist, of course contingent agreements exist, please make your point. edit to add: it sounds like Bob just signed an NDA.
- WendyTheWillow 3y ago
  Would it be immoral for Bob to agree to such a contract, but then change his mind after obtaining the copy of the work and begin sharing it with others?
  - ineptech 3y ago
    I feel like I'm talking to an LLM with a very limited token history. Yes, it would, if Bob actually agreed to a real contract. Have I not made it clear why I don't think purchasing a DVD constitutes agreeing to the license attached to it? That was literally the point of my very first reply to you: the difference between agreeing to something and being told "I declare that you agree to this".
    - WendyTheWillow 3y ago
      So, if we agree on these concepts for an explicit contract, do you believe in implicit agreement to contracts? This might take the form of, e.g. an expectation of refund if this DVD ends up being blank, or the belief that the DVD won't contain a virus or cut you when you grab the edge. They're not written on the side of the DVD, and they're not declared, "Because you read this, you must agree," but they still exist as a set of expectations and assumptions that come with social interactions (including product sales). In other words, are there implicit rules that govern any given exchange beyond those that are explicitly stated before the exchange occurs? Really, rules that govern social interaction generally. Do those rules exist?
      - ineptech 3y ago
        A lot to unpack here, sorry to fisk: > do you believe in implicit agreement to contracts? This might take the form of, e.g. an expectation of refund if this DVD ends up being blank, or the belief that the DVD won't contain a virus or cut you when you grab the edge. In a word, no. I expect the DVD to work and not have a virus because consumer products are usually subject to an implied warranty of merchantability (which is very much not an ethical agreement but a legal obligation imposed by courts). The idea of a corporation replacing a faulty product because it's the right thing to do sounds like something from a children's book with talking badgers who wear waistcoats and serve tea. The real-world DVD manufacturer would dump toxic waste in my back yard if they thought the savings would exceed the fine. > they still exist as a set of expectations and assumptions that come with social interactions (including product sales). Purchasing a product from a corporation is not a social interaction. Not sure what else to say beyond referring you to the definition of "social." > In other words, are there implicit rules that govern any given exchange beyond those that are explicitly stated before the exchange occurs? Really, rules that govern social interaction generally. Do those rules exist? There are implict rules for all sorts of situations, sure. People tend to disagree on what they are, which is why we have so many explicit rules, e.g. copyright law and the CFAA and so forth. But sure, implicit rules can exist. "Don't fart in a crowded elevator" might be one. Another might be, "If you have a point to make, explain it clearly as opposed to dragging it out with leading rhetorical questions." What implicit rule is it that you think applies to purchasing stuff?