5 ms·

Here (Maine) calls are almost $7.00/hr which is indeed outrageous, however the jobs pay 2-4x better than other prisons i've been in, the food is better, you are

Here (Maine) calls are almost $7.00/hr which is indeed outrageous, however the jobs pay 2-4x better than other prisons i've been in, the food is better, you are given more things like clothes that other prisons would make you pay for. And I am allowed to go to college, and even hold a job developing software. So although it is absurd, I have been in other prisons where the calls are dirt cheap but they have shit food, they dont give you ANYTHING and there isn't shit for opportunities. I understand that sometimes the profit they make off the calls might be going to things like quality of the food, etc. I know that this is almost never the case, but I do know that it is somewhat the case here.

hsbauauvhabzb 3y ago
Prison is supposed to be rehabilitation, not a self-funding machine.
- csallen 3y ago
  Has it not occurred to you that, if we want people to become productive working members of society, that perhaps allowing them to learn and work from prison might be rehabilitative?
  - hutzlibu 3y ago
    I don't think he negated that and just stated that the funds to do so should mostly come from somewhere else - otherwise there is motivation to exploit the prisoners.
  - hsbauauvhabzb 3y ago
    Perhaps you misinterpreted my comments, $7/hour for calls where the money is used to provide better meals implies that without additional funding the meals would not be at an acceptable level.
    - thfuran 3y ago
      No, it only implies that the budget is currently structured to offload the costs of running the prison onto the prisoners.
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  > Prison is supposed to be rehabilitation That’s one part. The others are deterrence, incapacitation, retribution and restitution [1]. Letting prisoner’s work aids rehabilitation. Letting them earn further aids restitution. [1] https://open.lib.umn.edu/criminallaw/chapter/1-5-the-purposes-of-punishment/ https://open.lib.umn.edu/criminallaw/chapter/1-5-the-purpose...
  - mlyle 3y ago
    > Letting them earn further aids restitution. These things have a balance, though. If you're planning on letting people out of prison one day (i.e. if they don't have a life sentence)... And it's punitive to the point that familial relations break and people lose what little support network they have and ability to live outside of prison... You can expect they're going to show back right up where they started. In which case, by facilitating repeated recidivism, you've neutered deterrence, incapacitation and left them unable to make meaningful restitution.
    - arlcode 3y ago
      Even for life sentences I believe it makes sense to have prisoners work and earn some small privileges inside. For one its possible to encourage good behaviour by threatening to take it away but also because a sense of purpose and achievement is important for a healthy mental state. That's true for incarcerated people as well and a stable population reduces enforcement costs and churn among the guard personal.
      - mlyle 3y ago
        No one's arguing with that (though, of course, the devil is in the details...) Just, the combination of: - Denying people the practical ability to contact their loved ones except by phone - Charging a price that is very high compared to outside rates for this contact (prohibitively so) - Paying prisoners a tiny fraction of outside rates, such that - Only people who can depend upon money coming from outside can contact family is both cruel and probably increases recidivism.
  - 3y ago
- Eumenes 3y ago
  It also means you lose alot of freedom and privileges, including unlimited cell phone minutes and leisurely calls with your friends/family.
Dracophoenix 3y ago
How exactly do other prisons compare? Which one have you been to?
jauntywundrkind 3y ago
How I got here is a very interesting related recent (17d) submission, where a tech-savy inmate discusses how lucky they were to pretty much accidentally end up getting sent to a Maine prison, where they were able to get access to the internet & go from what reads to me like a hopeless prison mentality to a hopeful, interested, engaged & active person in the world, even from their confines. Alas, the greater context here, and seemingly much of why they write, is that Maine seems to be the one a few rare states where they believe there's any hope of reform & rehabilitation. And even to get this context, it seemingly took Covid for them to be granted access to the knowledge & information to unlock & enable their journey & growth, for them to escape a foreboding dark prison fatalism. https://pthorpe92.github.io/intro/my-story/ https://pthorpe92.github.io/intro/my-story/ https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38229231 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38229231 This is unhumble as heck & just my own weird strange warped view, but I personally think there is a resounding screaming loud truth that access to FOSS is a civic virtue that can redeem lives & should be amplified accelerated & supported at all levels. Prisons, schools, & elsewhere: being able to personally entail ourselves into such great projects lifts the soul, gives us worthy efforts to motivate & work towards. FOSS invites us in to participate in the greater non-zero-sum aspects of humanity.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- strangesmells06 3y ago
  Just hang around all day with no rent learning and coding. Maine prison sounds pretty sweet. Actually sounds a little like those hackers that live in pod spaces in SF.
  - dvektor 3y ago
    I do pay rent because I work (10% of my salary) as well as I obviously pay my taxes. This is why I feel like it is insane that people wouldn't want this to be more prevalent.. would you rather have me sucking up tax payer money and leaving prison in worse shape than when I came in? or completely changing my life and paying for my housing and paying my taxes and leaving with a career and a guarantee that I never come back? seems obvious
johnnyanmac 3y ago
What kind of jobs take in a dev that's in prison? I hear havig any prison record is one of the easiest ways to fail a background check, even if you are otherwise a stellar candidate. But that is good to hear about college. So much of my state to this day is still on the "hard on crime" narrative even though I'd bet my bottom dollar that over half the prisoners just need a detox session (or need to be released yesterday over weed charges). Some direction and education would help further and reduce recidivism.
- KennyBlanken 3y ago
  Massachusetts has pretty strict laws on criminal records in general but also questions about criminal backgrounds in applications and interviews. Some cities in MA are prohibit companies they contract with from discriminating against those with criminal backgrounds. And before some smarmypants jumps on my back: there's verbiage about it only applying to those who will not be working sensitive positions. I'm not an expert but I believe it's things like unsupervised handling of money and working with vulnerable populations.
- dvektor 3y ago
  I work for a company that develops education software for people in prison, founded by two people who were released after being sentenced to life as juveniles.
strangesmells06 3y ago
Imagine working as a remote software dev in prison making more money than the warden.
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago
  That would be wholesome. Though if word goes out you're earning SW dev wages then you're making yourself a target for extorsion/racketeering from gangs and wardens meaning you'll probably have to pay half your wage so something bad doesn't happen to you.
  - strangesmells06 3y ago
    How would word get out? Just dont tell anyone. Also on a software devs salary you could bribe so many guards and inmates you would be king of that place.
    - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
      >How would word get out? Just dont tell anyone. Inmates see you coding all day? lol And they aren't that stupid, they know people working in the "computer business" make money.
    - red-iron-pine 3y ago
      people talk, and word will get out. you can only bribe your way out of so much. if it's just going to a bank account somewhere though, whatever. keep your mouth shut, tell em you're getting $3.24/hr, and then go on a bender when you get out with all that saved up cash.
  - slim 3y ago
    if you think software dev wages would impress inmates, wait till you know how much they make from selling drugs
    - strangesmells06 3y ago
      In prison?
tyingq 3y ago
Also, it's not just the published rate. They do things like... - add credit card surcharges - bill whole minutes - no refunds for unused minutes when the service isn't needed. And, it's not just phones. Similar treatment for email/telegram type services, commissary type items, books, music, etc. Some even deduct from these accounts for medical service visits. The US incarceration system is a shit show.
xrd 3y ago
I've been reading your comments here, and am really interested in hearing more about your story, especially your place of work. Where can I learn more? Your perspective is so interesting. edit: I see your blog post linked below by someone else. I'll read that!

hsbauauvhabzb 3y ago

Prison is supposed to be rehabilitation, not a self-funding machine.

csallen 3y ago
Has it not occurred to you that, if we want people to become productive working members of society, that perhaps allowing them to learn and work from prison might be rehabilitative?
- hutzlibu 3y ago
  I don't think he negated that and just stated that the funds to do so should mostly come from somewhere else - otherwise there is motivation to exploit the prisoners.
- hsbauauvhabzb 3y ago
  Perhaps you misinterpreted my comments, $7/hour for calls where the money is used to provide better meals implies that without additional funding the meals would not be at an acceptable level.
  - thfuran 3y ago
    No, it only implies that the budget is currently structured to offload the costs of running the prison onto the prisoners.
JumpCrisscross 3y ago
> Prison is supposed to be rehabilitation That’s one part. The others are deterrence, incapacitation, retribution and restitution [1]. Letting prisoner’s work aids rehabilitation. Letting them earn further aids restitution. [1] https://open.lib.umn.edu/criminallaw/chapter/1-5-the-purposes-of-punishment/ https://open.lib.umn.edu/criminallaw/chapter/1-5-the-purpose...
- mlyle 3y ago
  > Letting them earn further aids restitution. These things have a balance, though. If you're planning on letting people out of prison one day (i.e. if they don't have a life sentence)... And it's punitive to the point that familial relations break and people lose what little support network they have and ability to live outside of prison... You can expect they're going to show back right up where they started. In which case, by facilitating repeated recidivism, you've neutered deterrence, incapacitation and left them unable to make meaningful restitution.
  - arlcode 3y ago
    Even for life sentences I believe it makes sense to have prisoners work and earn some small privileges inside. For one its possible to encourage good behaviour by threatening to take it away but also because a sense of purpose and achievement is important for a healthy mental state. That's true for incarcerated people as well and a stable population reduces enforcement costs and churn among the guard personal.
    - mlyle 3y ago
      No one's arguing with that (though, of course, the devil is in the details...) Just, the combination of: - Denying people the practical ability to contact their loved ones except by phone - Charging a price that is very high compared to outside rates for this contact (prohibitively so) - Paying prisoners a tiny fraction of outside rates, such that - Only people who can depend upon money coming from outside can contact family is both cruel and probably increases recidivism.
- 3y ago
Eumenes 3y ago
It also means you lose alot of freedom and privileges, including unlimited cell phone minutes and leisurely calls with your friends/family.

Dracophoenix 3y ago

How exactly do other prisons compare? Which one have you been to?

jauntywundrkind 3y ago

How I got here is a very interesting related recent (17d) submission, where a tech-savy inmate discusses how lucky they were to pretty much accidentally end up getting sent to a Maine prison, where they were able to get access to the internet & go from what reads to me like a hopeless prison mentality to a hopeful, interested, engaged & active person in the world, even from their confines. Alas, the greater context here, and seemingly much of why they write, is that Maine seems to be the one a few rare states where they believe there's any hope of reform & rehabilitation. And even to get this context, it seemingly took Covid for them to be granted access to the knowledge & information to unlock & enable their journey & growth, for them to escape a foreboding dark prison fatalism. https://pthorpe92.github.io/intro/my-story/ https://pthorpe92.github.io/intro/my-story/ https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38229231 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38229231 This is unhumble as heck & just my own weird strange warped view, but I personally think there is a resounding screaming loud truth that access to FOSS is a civic virtue that can redeem lives & should be amplified accelerated & supported at all levels. Prisons, schools, & elsewhere: being able to personally entail ourselves into such great projects lifts the soul, gives us worthy efforts to motivate & work towards. FOSS invites us in to participate in the greater non-zero-sum aspects of humanity.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
strangesmells06 3y ago
Just hang around all day with no rent learning and coding. Maine prison sounds pretty sweet. Actually sounds a little like those hackers that live in pod spaces in SF.
- dvektor 3y ago
  I do pay rent because I work (10% of my salary) as well as I obviously pay my taxes. This is why I feel like it is insane that people wouldn't want this to be more prevalent.. would you rather have me sucking up tax payer money and leaving prison in worse shape than when I came in? or completely changing my life and paying for my housing and paying my taxes and leaving with a career and a guarantee that I never come back? seems obvious

johnnyanmac 3y ago

What kind of jobs take in a dev that's in prison? I hear havig any prison record is one of the easiest ways to fail a background check, even if you are otherwise a stellar candidate. But that is good to hear about college. So much of my state to this day is still on the "hard on crime" narrative even though I'd bet my bottom dollar that over half the prisoners just need a detox session (or need to be released yesterday over weed charges). Some direction and education would help further and reduce recidivism.

KennyBlanken 3y ago
Massachusetts has pretty strict laws on criminal records in general but also questions about criminal backgrounds in applications and interviews. Some cities in MA are prohibit companies they contract with from discriminating against those with criminal backgrounds. And before some smarmypants jumps on my back: there's verbiage about it only applying to those who will not be working sensitive positions. I'm not an expert but I believe it's things like unsupervised handling of money and working with vulnerable populations.
dvektor 3y ago
I work for a company that develops education software for people in prison, founded by two people who were released after being sentenced to life as juveniles.

strangesmells06 3y ago

Imagine working as a remote software dev in prison making more money than the warden.

FirmwareBurner 3y ago
That would be wholesome. Though if word goes out you're earning SW dev wages then you're making yourself a target for extorsion/racketeering from gangs and wardens meaning you'll probably have to pay half your wage so something bad doesn't happen to you.
- strangesmells06 3y ago
  How would word get out? Just dont tell anyone. Also on a software devs salary you could bribe so many guards and inmates you would be king of that place.
  - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
    >How would word get out? Just dont tell anyone. Inmates see you coding all day? lol And they aren't that stupid, they know people working in the "computer business" make money.
  - red-iron-pine 3y ago
    people talk, and word will get out. you can only bribe your way out of so much. if it's just going to a bank account somewhere though, whatever. keep your mouth shut, tell em you're getting $3.24/hr, and then go on a bender when you get out with all that saved up cash.
- slim 3y ago
  if you think software dev wages would impress inmates, wait till you know how much they make from selling drugs
  - strangesmells06 3y ago
    In prison?

tyingq 3y ago

Also, it's not just the published rate. They do things like... - add credit card surcharges - bill whole minutes - no refunds for unused minutes when the service isn't needed. And, it's not just phones. Similar treatment for email/telegram type services, commissary type items, books, music, etc. Some even deduct from these accounts for medical service visits. The US incarceration system is a shit show.

xrd 3y ago

I've been reading your comments here, and am really interested in hearing more about your story, especially your place of work. Where can I learn more? Your perspective is so interesting. edit: I see your blog post linked below by someone else. I'll read that!