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This isn’t a real controversy, this is a far-right fever dream conjured by the Federalist Society. They’ve dreamed of weakening the administrative state ever si

This isn’t a real controversy, this is a far-right fever dream conjured by the Federalist Society. They’ve dreamed of weakening the administrative state ever since its inception under Roosevelt - that’s all this is. This “Reason” piece is just federalist propaganda, it’s not a serious piece, because this is not a serious topic.

pierat 3y ago
So you think some kangaroo court judge/jury/executioner, who deprives you of large quantities of money and forbiddance of your career, should be just decided and done? Perhaps we can name one of them Judge Dredd. Cause that's an accurate comparison what's going on right now. Punishments by the state should be done via jury trial, and only by jury trials. It's our RIGHT for jury trials.
- phmqk76 3y ago
  This case is a stalking horse for the substitution of power from bureaucratic agencies with defined missions and policy experts to politically-appointed judges. The administrative state as it began in earnest under Roosevelt is on the brink of extinction and under constant assault from a right-wing judiciary. The very real issues here are whether administrative agencies have the power to create and enforce regulations. This case is a piece of the puzzle in terms of undoing the landmark Chevron case that reaffirms the right of these administrative agencies to enact and enforce regulations that aren’t “arbitrary and capricious.” A layperson may not get that through looking at this case in isolation.
oatmeal1 3y ago
> This isn’t a real controversy You just don't like that it is a real controversy. It is before the Supreme Court.
- judge2020 3y ago
  Anyone can bring a lawsuit and appeal to SCOTUS, with its panel deciding which cases to take. You're living in an illusion if you genuinely think the Supreme Court is not political in nature.
  - hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
    Nobody was arguing the Supreme Court isn't political. The argument is that it's ridiculous to say "it's not a real controversy" when the Supreme Court has agreed to take the case, and a federal appeals court has already ruled against the government.
- phmqk76 3y ago
  It’s not a real controversy in the sense that you actually understood what I meant, but chose to be obtuse and act as if you didn’t. Apply that same logic to the Supreme Court - this is an area of extremely well-settled law. The only controversy is that the far-right Supreme Court seems an opportunity to decimate the administrative state and invents a so-called legal controversy to achieve that aim.
hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
I don't know how you can say "this is not a serious topic" when: > The U.S. Court of Appeals for the 5th Circuit ruled for Jarkesy in 2022. And, of course, the Supreme Court is actually taking up the hearing, which they wouldn't do unless there were real issues to address. I am in no way qualified to determine the validity of arguments on either side, but your offhand dismissal stands in stark contrast to the judges that obviously disagree, and who ruled differently.
- saulpw 3y ago
  https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2023/11/fifth-circuit-conservative-supreme-court/676116/ https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2023/11/fifth-c... > The Fifth Circuit is the federal appeals court covering Louisiana, Mississippi, and Texas (where I live), and it has in recent years become the place where just about every right-wing litigant who can brings lawsuits to test novel and extreme legal arguments.
  - askin4it 3y ago
    That settles it.
- phmqk76 3y ago
  The 5th Circuit is a right-wing fever dream that makes disastrously unconstitutional rulings literally every day. Lay people who don’t follow the courts or have a legal background might find it hard to accept that our legal system has strayed so very far from constitutional principles, but there has been a fringe right-wing takeover of many courts around the country, and the 5th circuit and the Supreme Court are among the worst offenders.
Dylan16807 3y ago
As someone that has barely heard of this issue, why would adding a jury option to more judgements be a far-right fever dream...?
darksaints 3y ago
Nah, I'm pretty damn liberal and this is absolutely something I want. Authoritarian states are a nightmare, especially when people like Trump take the reigns.

pierat 3y ago

So you think some kangaroo court judge/jury/executioner, who deprives you of large quantities of money and forbiddance of your career, should be just decided and done? Perhaps we can name one of them Judge Dredd. Cause that's an accurate comparison what's going on right now. Punishments by the state should be done via jury trial, and only by jury trials. It's our RIGHT for jury trials.

phmqk76 3y ago
This case is a stalking horse for the substitution of power from bureaucratic agencies with defined missions and policy experts to politically-appointed judges. The administrative state as it began in earnest under Roosevelt is on the brink of extinction and under constant assault from a right-wing judiciary. The very real issues here are whether administrative agencies have the power to create and enforce regulations. This case is a piece of the puzzle in terms of undoing the landmark Chevron case that reaffirms the right of these administrative agencies to enact and enforce regulations that aren’t “arbitrary and capricious.” A layperson may not get that through looking at this case in isolation.

oatmeal1 3y ago

> This isn’t a real controversy You just don't like that it is a real controversy. It is before the Supreme Court.

judge2020 3y ago
Anyone can bring a lawsuit and appeal to SCOTUS, with its panel deciding which cases to take. You're living in an illusion if you genuinely think the Supreme Court is not political in nature.
- hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
  Nobody was arguing the Supreme Court isn't political. The argument is that it's ridiculous to say "it's not a real controversy" when the Supreme Court has agreed to take the case, and a federal appeals court has already ruled against the government.
phmqk76 3y ago
It’s not a real controversy in the sense that you actually understood what I meant, but chose to be obtuse and act as if you didn’t. Apply that same logic to the Supreme Court - this is an area of extremely well-settled law. The only controversy is that the far-right Supreme Court seems an opportunity to decimate the administrative state and invents a so-called legal controversy to achieve that aim.

hn_throwaway_99 3y ago

I don't know how you can say "this is not a serious topic" when: > The U.S. Court of Appeals for the 5th Circuit ruled for Jarkesy in 2022. And, of course, the Supreme Court is actually taking up the hearing, which they wouldn't do unless there were real issues to address. I am in no way qualified to determine the validity of arguments on either side, but your offhand dismissal stands in stark contrast to the judges that obviously disagree, and who ruled differently.

saulpw 3y ago
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2023/11/fifth-circuit-conservative-supreme-court/676116/ https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2023/11/fifth-c... > The Fifth Circuit is the federal appeals court covering Louisiana, Mississippi, and Texas (where I live), and it has in recent years become the place where just about every right-wing litigant who can brings lawsuits to test novel and extreme legal arguments.
- askin4it 3y ago
  That settles it.
phmqk76 3y ago
The 5th Circuit is a right-wing fever dream that makes disastrously unconstitutional rulings literally every day. Lay people who don’t follow the courts or have a legal background might find it hard to accept that our legal system has strayed so very far from constitutional principles, but there has been a fringe right-wing takeover of many courts around the country, and the 5th circuit and the Supreme Court are among the worst offenders.

Dylan16807 3y ago

As someone that has barely heard of this issue, why would adding a jury option to more judgements be a far-right fever dream...?

darksaints 3y ago

Nah, I'm pretty damn liberal and this is absolutely something I want. Authoritarian states are a nightmare, especially when people like Trump take the reigns.