5 ms·

The stupid thing is that the groups that reflexively oppose private housing in San Francisco (namely REP Coalition, CCHO, SFTU) chose “don’t demolish rent contr

by yonran 3y ago

The stupid thing is that the groups that reflexively oppose private housing in San Francisco (namely REP Coalition, CCHO, SFTU) chose “don’t demolish rent controlled housing” as their rallying cry for why they are calling to oppose this ordinance that streamlines new apartment buildings, which sometimes requires tearing down an old building. Which means that they are foregoing the Costa-Hawkins exemption in SB 330 (2019) that allows and requires demolished rent controlled apartment units to be replaced by brand new rent controlled units (which are the type of rental units that they like). They are foregoing win-win solutions due to extreme tribalism and economic illiteracy.

riku_iki 3y ago
> to be replaced by brand new rent controlled units. will it be rent control with new rent price baseline? Where people from demolished apartments will be living until new apartment will be built?..
- acchow 3y ago
  No, no new price baseline. If the same tenants move back into the replaced unit, they continue at the rate as if their lease had been continuous (plus rent control raise limits)
  - jalapenos 3y ago
    That's a pretty good deal. Almost as if having gained tenancy in a rent-controlled property is a (non-transferable) asset worth more than the property itself.
    - YokoZar 3y ago
      Yes, that's exactly why "tenant buyouts" are a thing in San Francisco. They've created a property right for renters, as well as weird concepts like the "master tenant".
  - 8organicbits 3y ago
    Is the new apartment guaranteed to be the same size as before?
    - yonran 3y ago
      SB 330 defines “Equivalent size” as same number of bedrooms. https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtml?bill_id=201920200SB330 https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtm...
- yonran 3y ago
  > will it be rent control with new rent price baseline? It would be a new baseline, but at a rent that would be calculated to be affordable to the tenant’s income: “The developer agrees to provide … right of first refusal … at an affordable rent” https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtml?bill_id=201920200SB330 https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtm.... For low-income tenants, this would most likely be even lower than the rent controlled rent. For very-low income tenants who do not qualify for any other program (other programs such as Inclusionary Housing typically have narrow income bands as a % of AMI), they would have a home almost for free. For higher-income renters, they could see a rent increase. > Where people from demolished apartments will be living until new apartment will be built? SB 330 requires “Relocation benefits” according to §7260, but I think San Francisco’s local relocation payments are already higher (currently $7,540/tenant, up to $22,618/unit, plus $5,027 per elderly/disabled tenant https://sf.gov/sites/default/files/2023-02/579%20Multilingual%20Relocation%20Payments%2037.9C%2023-24%20%283.1.23%29.pdf https://sf.gov/sites/default/files/2023-02/579%20Multilingua...)
seanmcdirmid 3y ago
How would it even be economical for a developer to build new rent controlled housing? Or is the base set to when the apartments are constructed? If not, you don’t need to be economic illiterate to think something fishy will happen if the math doesn’t work out. If I had a rent controlled SF apartment, why would I ever want to give it up? That’s like winning the lottery. I can see where these people are coming from.
- xenadu02 3y ago
  No the idea is they can replace a 4 unit 2 story rent controlled building with a 4 story 8 unit building that now has 4 rent controlled and 4 market rate units. This is due to another Byzantine quirk of SF zoning where the neighborhood is zoned 40X (~40ft or 4 stories) but if you try to build a 4 story building you have to notify all your neighbors and they get the chance to demand discretionary review, forcing your project to go before the planning commission for a vote. People also pull this crap for simple additions to existing houses. At any rate the state is demanding reduced setbacks, elimination of neighbor notification and DR, etc. This would apply to other normal projects too, turning a lot more stuff into "by-right" approval: if you meet the set standards you can get a rubber stamp at the permit desk and no one can block you.
  - mint2 3y ago
    The neighbor notification and design review are nice ideas in theory but in practice they turn building into a nightmare. I wish new builds weren’t so bland and ugly, but that’s by far the lesser of the evils at this point. I hope the crazy tall outer sunset tower gets built so it’s a kick in the pants to cut the red tape and at least allow mid rise without any of the BS that even a single family home construction is face with at present. Actually if anything, single family houses should be banned in the core city including parts of the sunset and Richmond.
- kjkjadksj 3y ago
  Rent control means base rent is set when the tenant moves in, not when the building is built. Its therefore reset with new tenants. It also doesn’t lock you into this rate, but simply to a rate better pegged to wage growth. E.g. outside covid extreme measures rent control could mean rent can be raised 4-5% a year sometimes. Rent control really just prevents huge price gouging more than anything.

by yonran 3y ago

riku_iki 3y ago

> to be replaced by brand new rent controlled units. will it be rent control with new rent price baseline? Where people from demolished apartments will be living until new apartment will be built?..

acchow 3y ago
No, no new price baseline. If the same tenants move back into the replaced unit, they continue at the rate as if their lease had been continuous (plus rent control raise limits)
- jalapenos 3y ago
  That's a pretty good deal. Almost as if having gained tenancy in a rent-controlled property is a (non-transferable) asset worth more than the property itself.
  - YokoZar 3y ago
    Yes, that's exactly why "tenant buyouts" are a thing in San Francisco. They've created a property right for renters, as well as weird concepts like the "master tenant".
- 8organicbits 3y ago
  Is the new apartment guaranteed to be the same size as before?
  - yonran 3y ago
    SB 330 defines “Equivalent size” as same number of bedrooms. https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtml?bill_id=201920200SB330 https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtm...
yonran 3y ago
> will it be rent control with new rent price baseline? It would be a new baseline, but at a rent that would be calculated to be affordable to the tenant’s income: “The developer agrees to provide … right of first refusal … at an affordable rent” https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtml?bill_id=201920200SB330 https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtm.... For low-income tenants, this would most likely be even lower than the rent controlled rent. For very-low income tenants who do not qualify for any other program (other programs such as Inclusionary Housing typically have narrow income bands as a % of AMI), they would have a home almost for free. For higher-income renters, they could see a rent increase. > Where people from demolished apartments will be living until new apartment will be built? SB 330 requires “Relocation benefits” according to §7260, but I think San Francisco’s local relocation payments are already higher (currently $7,540/tenant, up to $22,618/unit, plus $5,027 per elderly/disabled tenant https://sf.gov/sites/default/files/2023-02/579%20Multilingual%20Relocation%20Payments%2037.9C%2023-24%20%283.1.23%29.pdf https://sf.gov/sites/default/files/2023-02/579%20Multilingua...)

seanmcdirmid 3y ago

How would it even be economical for a developer to build new rent controlled housing? Or is the base set to when the apartments are constructed? If not, you don’t need to be economic illiterate to think something fishy will happen if the math doesn’t work out. If I had a rent controlled SF apartment, why would I ever want to give it up? That’s like winning the lottery. I can see where these people are coming from.

xenadu02 3y ago
No the idea is they can replace a 4 unit 2 story rent controlled building with a 4 story 8 unit building that now has 4 rent controlled and 4 market rate units. This is due to another Byzantine quirk of SF zoning where the neighborhood is zoned 40X (~40ft or 4 stories) but if you try to build a 4 story building you have to notify all your neighbors and they get the chance to demand discretionary review, forcing your project to go before the planning commission for a vote. People also pull this crap for simple additions to existing houses. At any rate the state is demanding reduced setbacks, elimination of neighbor notification and DR, etc. This would apply to other normal projects too, turning a lot more stuff into "by-right" approval: if you meet the set standards you can get a rubber stamp at the permit desk and no one can block you.
- mint2 3y ago
  The neighbor notification and design review are nice ideas in theory but in practice they turn building into a nightmare. I wish new builds weren’t so bland and ugly, but that’s by far the lesser of the evils at this point. I hope the crazy tall outer sunset tower gets built so it’s a kick in the pants to cut the red tape and at least allow mid rise without any of the BS that even a single family home construction is face with at present. Actually if anything, single family houses should be banned in the core city including parts of the sunset and Richmond.
kjkjadksj 3y ago
Rent control means base rent is set when the tenant moves in, not when the building is built. Its therefore reset with new tenants. It also doesn’t lock you into this rate, but simply to a rate better pegged to wage growth. E.g. outside covid extreme measures rent control could mean rent can be raised 4-5% a year sometimes. Rent control really just prevents huge price gouging more than anything.