3 ms·

And the people who were against systemd were arguing for sticking with the steaming pile of shit and toenail clippings from AT&T that replaced the simple but fu

And the people who were against systemd were arguing for sticking with the steaming pile of shit and toenail clippings from AT&T that replaced the simple but functional stuff from BSD, because they're too young to have ever known anything other than a steaming pile of shit and toenail clippings, and mistakenly think that's the One True Way of Unix. Nostalgia for X-Windows is just as naive. Since nobody even uses X-Windows networking any more, they'd be better off with SunView. X-Windows is only free if your time is worthless.

wkat4242 3y ago
> And the people who were against systemd were arguing for sticking with the steaming pile of shit and toenail clippings from AT&T that replaced the simple but functional stuff from BSD I use the simple but functional BSD stuff :) > Since nobody even uses X-Windows networking any more I still use it every day
orwin 3y ago
One if the first company i worked at used X-windows networking for their Paas offering,until at least 5 years ago.
vidarh 3y ago
For me, the reason for sticking with X is that my X setup works, and whenever I look at what it'd take me to do the same things with Wayland, I balk. I really don't care about X. But as long as the migration would break any number of script I rely on, it's not worth it exactly because I care about how I spend my time. And that even drives me to write more X code because looking into whether I could realistically do the same upgrades to my environment with Wayland has put me off every time (I could write a tiny wm or be forced to maintain my own compositor - even the "tinywl" wlroots example is several times the size of my current wm, while not doing what I want). For me it is purely pragmatic. If/when it gets harder to keep my X setup running than migrating, I'll migrate, and I do what I can't to keep the X-specific parts of my code well isolated. But it's likely to take many years before migrating becomes easier than staying put at this rate - frankly, odds are what will make me migrate is if/when the browsers drop X support.
arp242 3y ago
> X-Windows is only free if your time is worthless. % ls -lh =craicwm -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 1.2M Sep 17 2019 /usr/bin/craicwm* This is my window manager; it's kind of a hacked-up thing I did myself for the craic. It works a bit different than many other WMs, and I spent a weekend or two on it and it's worked very well for my since. I last compiled it in 2019 (it's fairly large on account of being statically linked) probably to change some simple configuration thing. It's worked very well for me since. "I use my home-grown WM" is an uncommon scenario, but "I have some specific thing written for X" isn't (this is just a bit of an extreme variant of that), and neither is "I'm rather used to my current setup, and I'd rather not change". I have a bunch of other programs that have no clear alternative; I've written some myself, some are by others. Perhaps my favourite is my wm-scratch[1] script to quickly show/hide a "scratch terminal" or other windows like Firefox devtools. I will need to re-create all of that. I don't even know if something like wm-scratch is possible under Wayland (maybe, maybe not?) I know very few people who like X11 as such. In fact, I know no one who does, and never have. I do know a lot of people for whom X11 works "good enough", and don't feel like spending time changing things. If this is a new argument for you then you really haven't been listening, because this is what many people have been saying for years. As for systemd, my argument has always been "SysV init sucks, but so does systemd, and we have much better systems like daemontools". "SysV init sucks, so therefore systemd is the only possible answer" has always been one of the great fallacies of that entire discussion. [1]: https://github.com/arp242/dotfiles/blob/master/local/script/wm-scratch https://github.com/arp242/dotfiles/blob/master/local/script/...

wkat4242 3y ago

> And the people who were against systemd were arguing for sticking with the steaming pile of shit and toenail clippings from AT&T that replaced the simple but functional stuff from BSD I use the simple but functional BSD stuff :) > Since nobody even uses X-Windows networking any more I still use it every day

orwin 3y ago

One if the first company i worked at used X-windows networking for their Paas offering,until at least 5 years ago.

vidarh 3y ago

For me, the reason for sticking with X is that my X setup works, and whenever I look at what it'd take me to do the same things with Wayland, I balk. I really don't care about X. But as long as the migration would break any number of script I rely on, it's not worth it exactly because I care about how I spend my time. And that even drives me to write more X code because looking into whether I could realistically do the same upgrades to my environment with Wayland has put me off every time (I could write a tiny wm or be forced to maintain my own compositor - even the "tinywl" wlroots example is several times the size of my current wm, while not doing what I want). For me it is purely pragmatic. If/when it gets harder to keep my X setup running than migrating, I'll migrate, and I do what I can't to keep the X-specific parts of my code well isolated. But it's likely to take many years before migrating becomes easier than staying put at this rate - frankly, odds are what will make me migrate is if/when the browsers drop X support.

arp242 3y ago

> X-Windows is only free if your time is worthless. % ls -lh =craicwm -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 1.2M Sep 17 2019 /usr/bin/craicwm* This is my window manager; it's kind of a hacked-up thing I did myself for the craic. It works a bit different than many other WMs, and I spent a weekend or two on it and it's worked very well for my since. I last compiled it in 2019 (it's fairly large on account of being statically linked) probably to change some simple configuration thing. It's worked very well for me since. "I use my home-grown WM" is an uncommon scenario, but "I have some specific thing written for X" isn't (this is just a bit of an extreme variant of that), and neither is "I'm rather used to my current setup, and I'd rather not change". I have a bunch of other programs that have no clear alternative; I've written some myself, some are by others. Perhaps my favourite is my wm-scratch[1] script to quickly show/hide a "scratch terminal" or other windows like Firefox devtools. I will need to re-create all of that. I don't even know if something like wm-scratch is possible under Wayland (maybe, maybe not?) I know very few people who like X11 as such. In fact, I know no one who does, and never have. I do know a lot of people for whom X11 works "good enough", and don't feel like spending time changing things. If this is a new argument for you then you really haven't been listening, because this is what many people have been saying for years. As for systemd, my argument has always been "SysV init sucks, but so does systemd, and we have much better systems like daemontools". "SysV init sucks, so therefore systemd is the only possible answer" has always been one of the great fallacies of that entire discussion. [1]: https://github.com/arp242/dotfiles/blob/master/local/script/wm-scratch https://github.com/arp242/dotfiles/blob/master/local/script/...