9 ms·

Covid-19 3rd leading cause of death among Canadians in 2022

67 points by jeffbee 3y ago

bilsbie 3y ago
Does this include a “with vs from” distinction?
- thegrim33 3y ago
  It's extremely well known that this is a common objection to such claims. You'd think that if the data truly was died FROM covid, they would bend over backwards to make that really clear, in order to shut up "deniers". The fact that they don't mention or clarify the issue in anyway is pretty telling. I tried looking through the related sources and found nothing useful to clarify.
  - ceejayoz 3y ago
    "Cause of death" is pretty clear. Your theory is trivially debunkable by the numbers in the table. The individual casues of death on in 2022 sum up to 334,121. The total number of deaths for the year is indicated as 334,081. If they're double/triple-counting ailments, they wouldn't match up. (I preusme the mismatch of ~40 is a typo or something in one of the rows.)
    - hn_ta456 3y ago
      > "Cause of death" is pretty clear. Is it? The official Canadian definition calls for a “clinically compatible disease”, and “discretion may be used”. COVID also only needs to be a “contributing factor”. https://ipac-canada.org/coronavirus-resources#:~:text=A%20probable%20or%20confirmed%20COVID,%2C%20poisoning%2C%20drug%20overdose https://ipac-canada.org/coronavirus-resources#:~:text=A%20pr...).
      - ceejayoz 3y ago
        You're very, very selectively quoting. Here's the full bit: > A probable or confirmed COVID-19 case whose death resulted from a clinically compatible illness, unless there is a clear alternative cause of death identified (e.g., trauma, poisoning, drug overdose). > A Medical Officer of Health, relevant public health authority, or coroner may use their discretion when determining if a death was due to COVID-19, and their judgement will supersede the above-mentioned criteria. > A death due to COVID-19 may be attributed when COVID-19 is the cause of death or is a contributing factor. Basically, if you test positive for COVID and die of pneumonia or sepsis, they're comfortable calling it a COVID death... but "discretion may be used" by the coroner to override that assumption in either direction. That's sensible; they have more specific info than a general guideline. As the third paragraph also indicates, "due to COVID" is different from "cause of death".
        hn_ta456 3y ago
        The full quote is worse! You did read the definition in my original link of a “probable case”, right? You can be a “probable case” if you have similar symptoms and were near a known case. >”due to COVID” is different from “cause of death” Yes, in this wording “a death due to COVID may be attributed…” is the bit that goes on the death certificate. Reading the full sentence, it clarifies COVID has only to contribute to a death for it that to be recorded as COVID death. Reading these official definitions, if you die with a raised temperature and a cough, and were near other COVID cases, that’s all that is needed to be a COVID death.
        ceejayoz 3y ago
        Again, this theory simply cannot explain the numbers in the “cause of death” tallies we’re discussing. A death certificate can list multiple reasons, but they aren’t making that mistake or the total deaths count would be a mega-blowout.
        hn_ta456 3y ago
        I don’t know what “theory” you are referring to, as I am only talking about the official definition of a COVID death of the country in question. >the total deaths count would be a mega-blowout Maybe. Due to the absurdly lax definitions, we will never know.
mv 3y ago
I'd be shocked if this was anywhere near reality. Covid hasn't been an issue any of the hospitals that I work at to the point that many doctors and nurses don't even bother with N95 masks when seeing covid patients. It's more likely this is people dying with covid and not from covid. If someone covid positive has a stroke or heart attack which column is that being written in? I have had to write my share of death certificates, and most docs will write the easiest thing that gets the corner off their back. These statistics may be broadly true medicine is unlike technology in that it has a much much higher level of human error in data points (intentional or not).
- fakecontent000 3y ago
  [dead]
- Scoundreller 3y ago
  > Covid hasn't been an issue any of the hospitals that I work at to the point that many doctors and nurses don't even bother with N95 masks when seeing covid patients. Damn, where are you at? Got ~75 hospital and care home units in active COVID-19 outbreak right now in Toronto. And outbreak doesn't include people that arrived with it, just spread within the unit. https://ckan0.cf.opendata.inter.prod-toronto.ca/dataset/outbreaks-in-toronto-healthcare-institutions/resource/15ac28a1-ece5-4a97-8e72-11227be9f4f7/view/b24912d5-5db2-4a04-ae59-089c6a7dba4e https://ckan0.cf.opendata.inter.prod-toronto.ca/dataset/outb...
  - cmrdporcupine 3y ago
    Wastewater numbers clearly show extremely high # of cases. And anecdotally - I just got it 3 weeks ago, along with my whole household (Hamilton area), after avoiding it for the entire time prior to this. My elderly parents got it a couple weeks before that. Coworkers of mine got it. It's all over the place right now. Just got back from the family dr's office today. The doctors were all in masks. The nurses weren't bothering.
Eumenes 3y ago
Its interesting how the deaths increased nearly 25% post vaccine roll out .. Not very effective
- twisteriffic 3y ago
  Interesting how deaths increased only 25% post pandemic precautions. Turns out the vaccine was fairly effective.
  - Eumenes 3y ago
    So effective that despite 80%+ of the population being inoculated it resulted in 25%+ more deaths? You gotta admit, that doesn't really make sense.
alejohausner 3y ago
Before 2020, there was no covid, but the number of deaths from influenza was higher. Once covid arrived, there were many fewer influenza deaths: 2018: 8594 2019: 6945 2020: 6037 2021: 4115 2022: 5985 Who dies of influenza? Very old people. Same for covid. Perhaps what we're seeing in these statistics is that the grim reaper may have changed, but he's still gonna get you at end of life.
simonw 3y ago
Are the figures for the USA for 2022 out yet? Found this for 2021, where Covid came third as well: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/leading-causes-of-death.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/leading-causes-of-death.htm Heart disease: 695,547 Cancer: 605,213 COVID-19: 416,893
- kenferry 3y ago
  Provisional figures are out. https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/72/wr/mm7218a3.htm https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/72/wr/mm7218a3.htm COVID’s down 47% from 2021, but still the 4th leading cause of death at 244,986.
amatecha 3y ago
Ah, this is the perfect summary to explain to people when they ask "why are you still wearing a mask? COVID is over" or similar queries invalidating my caution around this virus. Worth noting is it was the 4th-leading cause of death in 2020 and 2021. Not sure why this is being downvoted into oblivion, as I regularly get some hassle from people about my strict adherence to wearing a mask indoors around people, and the more I can say beyond "I don't feel like getting COVID", the better. Otherwise I have to go into a story about how, directly via COVID infection, a friend's mom died, a coworker's wife is left wheelchair-bound and can't even complete a phone conversation without being left breathless, one of my favorite musicians has called it quits after a complete loss of hearing in one ear.. etc... As a programmer I highly value my clarity of thought and am not going to risk that because people apparently feel the need to bother me about being cautious. Honestly cannot figure out why anyone feels the need to even comment on it, as it has no effect on them, and in fact helps keep them safer.
- graphe 3y ago
  The air on a plane circulates and causes illness to many people, like people who have had plastic surgery are advised not to travel too soon for fear of infection. Have you found that it helps there?
  - prirun 3y ago
    I read an article about masking and airplanes that seemed reasonable: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2022/07/covid-omicron-ba5-wave-airplane-masks/670565/ https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2022/07/covid-omi... The basic advice is to unmask when it is okay to use your laptop. The plane is cruising and cabin air is completely exchanged with outside air every 2 minutes. The biggest risk, according to the article, is when the plane is on the ground.
    - graphe 3y ago
      Thanks, this is a great article.
- 3y ago
Choco31415 3y ago
For those of you curious, the top 5 causes are: * Malignant Neoplasms - 82,412 * Diseases of the Heart - 57,357 * Covid-19 - 19,716 * Accidents (unintentional injuries) - 18,365 * Cerebrovascular Diseases - 13,915
graphe 3y ago
The number by COVID is 19,716. Euthanasia is absent on here but is 13,241 for context. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthanasia_in_Canada https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthanasia_in_Canada
- lukev 3y ago
  Regardless of one's opinions on if MAID is a good idea, it seems unfair to regard it as a "cause of death". Wouldn't that be more correctly attributable to the underlying condition?
  - Eumenes 3y ago
    You can say the same thing in regards to how the CDC lumps suicide into "gun violence" deaths but don't blame sleeping pills, ropes, driving cars off bridges, or whatever OTC drug one can buy to reach the same conclusion. Weaponizing data is a government statisticians job.
    - wk_end 3y ago
      Admittedly I'm just guessing here, but I strongly suspect that suicide by OTC drugs are indeed counted as drug overdoses by government statisticians, which seems like it would be the correct analogy?
      - Eumenes 3y ago
        Looks like they only have a certain set of drugs related to overdose deaths https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/drug-overdose-data.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/drug-overdose-data.htm > Drug overdose deaths are identified using underlying cause-of-death codes from the Tenth Revision of ICD (ICD–10): X40–X44 (unintentional), X60–X64 (suicide), X85 (homicide), and Y10–Y14 (undetermined). Drug overdose deaths involving selected drug categories are identified by specific multiple cause-of-death codes. Drug categories presented include: heroin (T40.1); natural opioid analgesics, including morphine and codeine, and semisynthetic opioids, including drugs such as oxycodone, hydrocodone, hydromorphone, and oxymorphone (T40.2); methadone, a synthetic opioid (T40.3); synthetic opioid analgesics other than methadone, including drugs such as fentanyl and tramadol (T40.4); cocaine (T40.5); and psychostimulants with abuse potential, which includes methamphetamine (T43.6). Opioid overdose deaths are identified by the presence of any of the following multiple cause-of-death codes: opium (T40.0); heroin (T40.1); natural opioid analgesics (T40.2); methadone (T40.3); synthetic opioid analgesics other than methadone (T40.4); or other and unspecified narcotics (T40.6). This latter category includes drug overdose deaths where ‘opioid’ is reported without more specific information to assign a more specific ICD–10 code (T40.0–T40.4) (4,5). Among deaths with an underlying cause of drug overdose, the percentage with at least one drug or drug class specified is defined as that with at least one ICD–10 multiple cause-of-death code in the range T36–T50.8. Two additional categories were added based on CDC’s Opioid Overdose Indicator Support Toolkit (6): drug overdose deaths involving natural, semi-synthetic, or synthetic opioids, including methadone (T40.2–T40.4); drug overdose deaths involving natural and semi-synthetic opioids, and methadone (T40.2–T40.3). These new categories, which are a combination of existing categories, are not displayed on the default figure to facilitate ease of display of the main drug categories, but are accessible through the drop-down box that allows for selection of specific drug categories.
transcriptase 3y ago
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- Jerrrry 3y ago
  [flagged]
- WheatMillington 3y ago
  Here in New Zealand someone died of a gunshot wound, and it was recorded as a Covid death because they were Covid position. It's easy to forget the immense hysteria of 2020.
- Scoundreller 3y ago
  This makes me wonder how the child with terminal brain cancer that dies in a vehicle collision would get recorded.
- Scoundreller 3y ago
  which provincial healthcare systems? And which were doing antibody testing on every admission?
- chownie 3y ago
  If you're going to make these claims could you source them?
  - seattle_spring 3y ago
    I have a bunch of citations below refuting his claim, but it's currently almost dead due to downvotes. Bummer some people would rather keep spreading falsehoods.
    - transcriptase 3y ago
      You posted a bunch of citations about the U.S. Canadian hospitals and provinces explicitly made statements Late 2022/Early 2023 saying they were revising their definitions of a Covid death and going to recalculate previously published figures after stories blew up of the exact type of cases I mentioned. People were getting death certificates for loved ones with Covid listed as the cause of death when it was simply and provably not true, even if they did test positive.
seattle_spring 3y ago
Since it’s inevitable for someone to pop in and breathlessly claim these numbers are falsely inflated, here’s some light reading in preparation: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/debunking-the-false-claim-that-covid-death-counts-are-inflated1/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/debunking-the-fal... https://www.aha.org/news/blog/2020-11-02-aha-continues-debunk-false-claims-about-covid-19-deaths-and-payments https://www.aha.org/news/blog/2020-11-02-aha-continues-debun... https://www.northcarolinahealthnews.org/2020/11/07/how-covid-death-counts-become-the-stuff-of-conspiracy-theories/ https://www.northcarolinahealthnews.org/2020/11/07/how-covid... https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2772693 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2772693 https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/hospital-payments-and-the-covid-19-death-count/ https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/hospital-payments-and-the-...
- wk_end 3y ago
  Just took a quick glance but these appear to be about the US, whereas this post is about Canada. Am I missing something?
  - seattle_spring 3y ago
    Are you suggesting that Canada’s numbers are inflated, even though they match US numbers which are not inflated?
    - wk_end 3y ago
      For a variety of reasons - higher uptake of vaccinations (~85% vs ~70%), universal health care coverage, stronger worker protections, better compliance with stronger public health rules and restrictions, lower obesity rates (~30% of adults vs ~40%) - one might suspect that they shouldn't match US numbers. Broadly, I guess I just feel non-specifically like a bunch of articles about COVID in the US in 2020 aren't especially germane when discussing COVID in Canada in 2022, when so much about the situation is so radically different.
      - 3y ago
Animats 3y ago
Current stats for US:[1] Hospital admissions are up to 3x the August-September low. Deaths are way down, though. The vaccines really do work against deaths, and the newer variants are less lethal. Understanding of long COVID at the cellular level is just beginning, but there is progress.[2] [1] https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#trends_weeklyhospitaladmissions_select_00 https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#trends_weeklyhospi... [2] https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.08.09.22278592v1 https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.08.09.22278592v...
- graphe 3y ago
  > The vaccines really do work against deaths, and the newer variants are less lethal. Non sequitur with no evidence. New variants being less lethal is the only consideration. Sweden famously had no lockdown, and the total death rate (feb2020-nov2023) is 25,590 despite no vaccines and no lockdown when it was most lethal. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/ https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/
- Scoundreller 3y ago
  > the newer variants are less lethal. Is this true, or does just about everyone have at least some residual immunity from infection/vaccination?
  - Jerrrry 3y ago
    [flagged]
  - cmrdporcupine 3y ago
    I never tested positive for COVID in the entire 3.5 years of this crap ... until last month. I have had 4 rounds of the vaccine and didn't ever get it in prior winters even when it was in my house (daughter had it before) -- but didn't get my booster in time this fall to do anything about the rather insane wave making its way through the population right now (thanks Doug Ford, you incompetent buffoon). And so I got it, and so did everyone else in our house And it was rather brutal-awful. Enough so that I felt the need to get on anti-virals. 3 weeks later and I'd say I'm only really recovered right now. Point being, it seems the vaccinations unfortunately need repeated application, and what's making the rounds right now is nothing to scoff at. For some people, it's mild. For others, pretty awful.
flanbiscuit 3y ago
1. Malignant neoplasms (aka cancerous tumor) 82,412 2. Diseases of heart 57,357 3. COVID-19 19,716 4. Accidents (unintentional injuries) 18,365 Note: the list also has an "Other causes of death" at 78,354 but that's not one specific thing so can't be included in the ranking Some age statistics regarding COVID deaths from their own analysis: https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/231127/dq231127b-eng.htm https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/231127/dq231... > The proportion of COVID-19 deaths among older Canadians aged 65 years and older rose to 91.4% in 2022, approaching early pandemic levels. This increase was largely felt by seniors aged 80 years and older, who experienced a 78.2% increase in COVID-19 deaths from 2021 to 2022. In contrast, deaths due to COVID-19 decreased to 8.6% for those younger than 65 years in 2022. So this is hitting 80+ people the hardest, then 65+... but under 65 has gone down.
- renegat0x0 3y ago
  In my country if somebody died with COVID, then COVID was found as the reason of death. Hospitals had additional bonuses for writing COVID into reason of death. Therefore I read such statistics with a grain of salt.
jihadjihad 3y ago
Meanwhile, the official tally of Chinese deaths sits at ~122,000 total [0]. I wonder when, if ever, we will know the true number, especially after the "zero Covid" policy ended. 0: https://covid19.who.int/region/wpro/country/cn https://covid19.who.int/region/wpro/country/cn
- pixxel 3y ago
  >true number True numbers. Let’s not allude that only China’s stats are… I’ll be kind and say ‘massaged’. How high is the western “died with Covid” tally?
Arson9416 3y ago
>Complications of medical and surgical care Is the ~30th cause of death in Canada. In US it's the ~3rd. Why the order of magnitude difference? Is US healthcare 10x more incompetent or are these stats massaged?
- p1necone 3y ago
  I wouldn't be surprised if many people in the US just don't go back to the hospital when they get infections etc from surgery because of the medical bills.
  - mcpackieh 3y ago
    That wouldn't count as a medical error. Medical error is when the doctors fuck up, not the patients.
- WillPostForFood 3y ago
  Complications of medical and surgical care isn't in the top 10 for US. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/leading-causes-of-death.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/leading-causes-of-death.htm
  - Arson9416 3y ago
    >Medical errors now vie with COVID-19 infections as the third largest cause of preventable death in the United States. https://blogs.cdc.gov/safehealthcare/patient-safety-action-plan https://blogs.cdc.gov/safehealthcare/patient-safety-action-p...
  - mcpackieh 3y ago
    https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/news/media/releases/study_suggests_medical_errors_now_third_leading_cause_of_death_in_the_us https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/news/media/releases/study_su... > Analyzing medical death rate data over an eight-year period, Johns Hopkins patient safety experts have calculated that more than 250,000 deaths per year are due to medical error in the U.S. Their figure, published May 3 in The BMJ, surpasses the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s (CDC’s) third leading cause of death — respiratory disease, which kills close to 150,000 people per year. > The Johns Hopkins team says the CDC’s way of collecting national health statistics fails to classify medical errors separately on the death certificate. The researchers are advocating for updated criteria for classifying deaths on death certificates.
65892 3y ago
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Eumenes 3y ago
Died "with covid" or "of covid"..? Hmm ...
- seattle_spring 3y ago
  They died of covid. Any other questions we can answer for you?
  - hn_ta456 3y ago
    [dead]
  - renegat0x0 3y ago
    In my country if somebody died with COVID, then COVID was found as the reason of death. Hospitals had additional bonuses for writing COVID into reason of death. Therefore I read such statistics with a grain of salt. I find your comment offensive.
    - seattle_spring 3y ago
      > Hospitals had additional bonuses for writing COVID into reason of death This is an absurd conspiracy theory that has been proven untrue time and time again. I find your propagation of such debunked nonsense offensive.
      - renegat0x0 3y ago
        Not at all. As someone who has family in hospitals I can say that this happened. At least in my locality. Can you claim the same using your experience? That is why I can say these things with total certainty. Conspiracy theory is a derogatory term to dismiss any critical voices. In essence saying that something is "conspiracy theory" is meaningless, and it itself does not say anything. It does not provide evidence, nor logical thinking. It is represents non-cricital thinking towards things.
  - hollerith 3y ago
    Yes: how many of them would have died anyways even if they hadn't gotten covid?

67 points by jeffbee 3y ago

bilsbie 3y ago

Does this include a “with vs from” distinction?

thegrim33 3y ago
It's extremely well known that this is a common objection to such claims. You'd think that if the data truly was died FROM covid, they would bend over backwards to make that really clear, in order to shut up "deniers". The fact that they don't mention or clarify the issue in anyway is pretty telling. I tried looking through the related sources and found nothing useful to clarify.
- ceejayoz 3y ago
  "Cause of death" is pretty clear. Your theory is trivially debunkable by the numbers in the table. The individual casues of death on in 2022 sum up to 334,121. The total number of deaths for the year is indicated as 334,081. If they're double/triple-counting ailments, they wouldn't match up. (I preusme the mismatch of ~40 is a typo or something in one of the rows.)
  - hn_ta456 3y ago
    > "Cause of death" is pretty clear. Is it? The official Canadian definition calls for a “clinically compatible disease”, and “discretion may be used”. COVID also only needs to be a “contributing factor”. https://ipac-canada.org/coronavirus-resources#:~:text=A%20probable%20or%20confirmed%20COVID,%2C%20poisoning%2C%20drug%20overdose https://ipac-canada.org/coronavirus-resources#:~:text=A%20pr...).
    - ceejayoz 3y ago
      You're very, very selectively quoting. Here's the full bit: > A probable or confirmed COVID-19 case whose death resulted from a clinically compatible illness, unless there is a clear alternative cause of death identified (e.g., trauma, poisoning, drug overdose). > A Medical Officer of Health, relevant public health authority, or coroner may use their discretion when determining if a death was due to COVID-19, and their judgement will supersede the above-mentioned criteria. > A death due to COVID-19 may be attributed when COVID-19 is the cause of death or is a contributing factor. Basically, if you test positive for COVID and die of pneumonia or sepsis, they're comfortable calling it a COVID death... but "discretion may be used" by the coroner to override that assumption in either direction. That's sensible; they have more specific info than a general guideline. As the third paragraph also indicates, "due to COVID" is different from "cause of death".
      - hn_ta456 3y ago
        The full quote is worse! You did read the definition in my original link of a “probable case”, right? You can be a “probable case” if you have similar symptoms and were near a known case. >”due to COVID” is different from “cause of death” Yes, in this wording “a death due to COVID may be attributed…” is the bit that goes on the death certificate. Reading the full sentence, it clarifies COVID has only to contribute to a death for it that to be recorded as COVID death. Reading these official definitions, if you die with a raised temperature and a cough, and were near other COVID cases, that’s all that is needed to be a COVID death.
        ceejayoz 3y ago
        Again, this theory simply cannot explain the numbers in the “cause of death” tallies we’re discussing. A death certificate can list multiple reasons, but they aren’t making that mistake or the total deaths count would be a mega-blowout.
        hn_ta456 3y ago
        I don’t know what “theory” you are referring to, as I am only talking about the official definition of a COVID death of the country in question. >the total deaths count would be a mega-blowout Maybe. Due to the absurdly lax definitions, we will never know.

mv 3y ago

I'd be shocked if this was anywhere near reality. Covid hasn't been an issue any of the hospitals that I work at to the point that many doctors and nurses don't even bother with N95 masks when seeing covid patients. It's more likely this is people dying with covid and not from covid. If someone covid positive has a stroke or heart attack which column is that being written in? I have had to write my share of death certificates, and most docs will write the easiest thing that gets the corner off their back. These statistics may be broadly true medicine is unlike technology in that it has a much much higher level of human error in data points (intentional or not).

fakecontent000 3y ago
[dead]
Scoundreller 3y ago
> Covid hasn't been an issue any of the hospitals that I work at to the point that many doctors and nurses don't even bother with N95 masks when seeing covid patients. Damn, where are you at? Got ~75 hospital and care home units in active COVID-19 outbreak right now in Toronto. And outbreak doesn't include people that arrived with it, just spread within the unit. https://ckan0.cf.opendata.inter.prod-toronto.ca/dataset/outbreaks-in-toronto-healthcare-institutions/resource/15ac28a1-ece5-4a97-8e72-11227be9f4f7/view/b24912d5-5db2-4a04-ae59-089c6a7dba4e https://ckan0.cf.opendata.inter.prod-toronto.ca/dataset/outb...
- cmrdporcupine 3y ago
  Wastewater numbers clearly show extremely high # of cases. And anecdotally - I just got it 3 weeks ago, along with my whole household (Hamilton area), after avoiding it for the entire time prior to this. My elderly parents got it a couple weeks before that. Coworkers of mine got it. It's all over the place right now. Just got back from the family dr's office today. The doctors were all in masks. The nurses weren't bothering.

Eumenes 3y ago

Its interesting how the deaths increased nearly 25% post vaccine roll out .. Not very effective

twisteriffic 3y ago
Interesting how deaths increased only 25% post pandemic precautions. Turns out the vaccine was fairly effective.
- Eumenes 3y ago
  So effective that despite 80%+ of the population being inoculated it resulted in 25%+ more deaths? You gotta admit, that doesn't really make sense.

alejohausner 3y ago

Before 2020, there was no covid, but the number of deaths from influenza was higher. Once covid arrived, there were many fewer influenza deaths: 2018: 8594 2019: 6945 2020: 6037 2021: 4115 2022: 5985 Who dies of influenza? Very old people. Same for covid. Perhaps what we're seeing in these statistics is that the grim reaper may have changed, but he's still gonna get you at end of life.

simonw 3y ago

Are the figures for the USA for 2022 out yet? Found this for 2021, where Covid came third as well: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/leading-causes-of-death.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/leading-causes-of-death.htm Heart disease: 695,547 Cancer: 605,213 COVID-19: 416,893

kenferry 3y ago
Provisional figures are out. https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/72/wr/mm7218a3.htm https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/72/wr/mm7218a3.htm COVID’s down 47% from 2021, but still the 4th leading cause of death at 244,986.

amatecha 3y ago

Ah, this is the perfect summary to explain to people when they ask "why are you still wearing a mask? COVID is over" or similar queries invalidating my caution around this virus. Worth noting is it was the 4th-leading cause of death in 2020 and 2021. Not sure why this is being downvoted into oblivion, as I regularly get some hassle from people about my strict adherence to wearing a mask indoors around people, and the more I can say beyond "I don't feel like getting COVID", the better. Otherwise I have to go into a story about how, directly via COVID infection, a friend's mom died, a coworker's wife is left wheelchair-bound and can't even complete a phone conversation without being left breathless, one of my favorite musicians has called it quits after a complete loss of hearing in one ear.. etc... As a programmer I highly value my clarity of thought and am not going to risk that because people apparently feel the need to bother me about being cautious. Honestly cannot figure out why anyone feels the need to even comment on it, as it has no effect on them, and in fact helps keep them safer.

graphe 3y ago
The air on a plane circulates and causes illness to many people, like people who have had plastic surgery are advised not to travel too soon for fear of infection. Have you found that it helps there?
- prirun 3y ago
  I read an article about masking and airplanes that seemed reasonable: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2022/07/covid-omicron-ba5-wave-airplane-masks/670565/ https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2022/07/covid-omi... The basic advice is to unmask when it is okay to use your laptop. The plane is cruising and cabin air is completely exchanged with outside air every 2 minutes. The biggest risk, according to the article, is when the plane is on the ground.
  - graphe 3y ago
    Thanks, this is a great article.
3y ago

Choco31415 3y ago

For those of you curious, the top 5 causes are: * Malignant Neoplasms - 82,412 * Diseases of the Heart - 57,357 * Covid-19 - 19,716 * Accidents (unintentional injuries) - 18,365 * Cerebrovascular Diseases - 13,915

graphe 3y ago

The number by COVID is 19,716. Euthanasia is absent on here but is 13,241 for context. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthanasia_in_Canada https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthanasia_in_Canada

lukev 3y ago
Regardless of one's opinions on if MAID is a good idea, it seems unfair to regard it as a "cause of death". Wouldn't that be more correctly attributable to the underlying condition?
- Eumenes 3y ago
  You can say the same thing in regards to how the CDC lumps suicide into "gun violence" deaths but don't blame sleeping pills, ropes, driving cars off bridges, or whatever OTC drug one can buy to reach the same conclusion. Weaponizing data is a government statisticians job.
  - wk_end 3y ago
    Admittedly I'm just guessing here, but I strongly suspect that suicide by OTC drugs are indeed counted as drug overdoses by government statisticians, which seems like it would be the correct analogy?
    - Eumenes 3y ago
      Looks like they only have a certain set of drugs related to overdose deaths https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/drug-overdose-data.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/drug-overdose-data.htm > Drug overdose deaths are identified using underlying cause-of-death codes from the Tenth Revision of ICD (ICD–10): X40–X44 (unintentional), X60–X64 (suicide), X85 (homicide), and Y10–Y14 (undetermined). Drug overdose deaths involving selected drug categories are identified by specific multiple cause-of-death codes. Drug categories presented include: heroin (T40.1); natural opioid analgesics, including morphine and codeine, and semisynthetic opioids, including drugs such as oxycodone, hydrocodone, hydromorphone, and oxymorphone (T40.2); methadone, a synthetic opioid (T40.3); synthetic opioid analgesics other than methadone, including drugs such as fentanyl and tramadol (T40.4); cocaine (T40.5); and psychostimulants with abuse potential, which includes methamphetamine (T43.6). Opioid overdose deaths are identified by the presence of any of the following multiple cause-of-death codes: opium (T40.0); heroin (T40.1); natural opioid analgesics (T40.2); methadone (T40.3); synthetic opioid analgesics other than methadone (T40.4); or other and unspecified narcotics (T40.6). This latter category includes drug overdose deaths where ‘opioid’ is reported without more specific information to assign a more specific ICD–10 code (T40.0–T40.4) (4,5). Among deaths with an underlying cause of drug overdose, the percentage with at least one drug or drug class specified is defined as that with at least one ICD–10 multiple cause-of-death code in the range T36–T50.8. Two additional categories were added based on CDC’s Opioid Overdose Indicator Support Toolkit (6): drug overdose deaths involving natural, semi-synthetic, or synthetic opioids, including methadone (T40.2–T40.4); drug overdose deaths involving natural and semi-synthetic opioids, and methadone (T40.2–T40.3). These new categories, which are a combination of existing categories, are not displayed on the default figure to facilitate ease of display of the main drug categories, but are accessible through the drop-down box that allows for selection of specific drug categories.

transcriptase 3y ago

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Jerrrry 3y ago
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WheatMillington 3y ago
Here in New Zealand someone died of a gunshot wound, and it was recorded as a Covid death because they were Covid position. It's easy to forget the immense hysteria of 2020.
Scoundreller 3y ago
This makes me wonder how the child with terminal brain cancer that dies in a vehicle collision would get recorded.
Scoundreller 3y ago
which provincial healthcare systems? And which were doing antibody testing on every admission?
chownie 3y ago
If you're going to make these claims could you source them?
- seattle_spring 3y ago
  I have a bunch of citations below refuting his claim, but it's currently almost dead due to downvotes. Bummer some people would rather keep spreading falsehoods.
  - transcriptase 3y ago
    You posted a bunch of citations about the U.S. Canadian hospitals and provinces explicitly made statements Late 2022/Early 2023 saying they were revising their definitions of a Covid death and going to recalculate previously published figures after stories blew up of the exact type of cases I mentioned. People were getting death certificates for loved ones with Covid listed as the cause of death when it was simply and provably not true, even if they did test positive.

seattle_spring 3y ago

Since it’s inevitable for someone to pop in and breathlessly claim these numbers are falsely inflated, here’s some light reading in preparation: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/debunking-the-false-claim-that-covid-death-counts-are-inflated1/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/debunking-the-fal... https://www.aha.org/news/blog/2020-11-02-aha-continues-debunk-false-claims-about-covid-19-deaths-and-payments https://www.aha.org/news/blog/2020-11-02-aha-continues-debun... https://www.northcarolinahealthnews.org/2020/11/07/how-covid-death-counts-become-the-stuff-of-conspiracy-theories/ https://www.northcarolinahealthnews.org/2020/11/07/how-covid... https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2772693 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2772693 https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/hospital-payments-and-the-covid-19-death-count/ https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/hospital-payments-and-the-...

wk_end 3y ago
Just took a quick glance but these appear to be about the US, whereas this post is about Canada. Am I missing something?
- seattle_spring 3y ago
  Are you suggesting that Canada’s numbers are inflated, even though they match US numbers which are not inflated?
  - wk_end 3y ago
    For a variety of reasons - higher uptake of vaccinations (~85% vs ~70%), universal health care coverage, stronger worker protections, better compliance with stronger public health rules and restrictions, lower obesity rates (~30% of adults vs ~40%) - one might suspect that they shouldn't match US numbers. Broadly, I guess I just feel non-specifically like a bunch of articles about COVID in the US in 2020 aren't especially germane when discussing COVID in Canada in 2022, when so much about the situation is so radically different.
    - 3y ago

Animats 3y ago

Current stats for US:[1] Hospital admissions are up to 3x the August-September low. Deaths are way down, though. The vaccines really do work against deaths, and the newer variants are less lethal. Understanding of long COVID at the cellular level is just beginning, but there is progress.[2] [1] https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#trends_weeklyhospitaladmissions_select_00 https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#trends_weeklyhospi... [2] https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.08.09.22278592v1 https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.08.09.22278592v...

graphe 3y ago
> The vaccines really do work against deaths, and the newer variants are less lethal. Non sequitur with no evidence. New variants being less lethal is the only consideration. Sweden famously had no lockdown, and the total death rate (feb2020-nov2023) is 25,590 despite no vaccines and no lockdown when it was most lethal. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/ https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/
Scoundreller 3y ago
> the newer variants are less lethal. Is this true, or does just about everyone have at least some residual immunity from infection/vaccination?
- Jerrrry 3y ago
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- cmrdporcupine 3y ago
  I never tested positive for COVID in the entire 3.5 years of this crap ... until last month. I have had 4 rounds of the vaccine and didn't ever get it in prior winters even when it was in my house (daughter had it before) -- but didn't get my booster in time this fall to do anything about the rather insane wave making its way through the population right now (thanks Doug Ford, you incompetent buffoon). And so I got it, and so did everyone else in our house And it was rather brutal-awful. Enough so that I felt the need to get on anti-virals. 3 weeks later and I'd say I'm only really recovered right now. Point being, it seems the vaccinations unfortunately need repeated application, and what's making the rounds right now is nothing to scoff at. For some people, it's mild. For others, pretty awful.

flanbiscuit 3y ago

1. Malignant neoplasms (aka cancerous tumor) 82,412 2. Diseases of heart 57,357 3. COVID-19 19,716 4. Accidents (unintentional injuries) 18,365 Note: the list also has an "Other causes of death" at 78,354 but that's not one specific thing so can't be included in the ranking Some age statistics regarding COVID deaths from their own analysis: https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/231127/dq231127b-eng.htm https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/231127/dq231... > The proportion of COVID-19 deaths among older Canadians aged 65 years and older rose to 91.4% in 2022, approaching early pandemic levels. This increase was largely felt by seniors aged 80 years and older, who experienced a 78.2% increase in COVID-19 deaths from 2021 to 2022. In contrast, deaths due to COVID-19 decreased to 8.6% for those younger than 65 years in 2022. So this is hitting 80+ people the hardest, then 65+... but under 65 has gone down.

renegat0x0 3y ago
In my country if somebody died with COVID, then COVID was found as the reason of death. Hospitals had additional bonuses for writing COVID into reason of death. Therefore I read such statistics with a grain of salt.

jihadjihad 3y ago

Meanwhile, the official tally of Chinese deaths sits at ~122,000 total [0]. I wonder when, if ever, we will know the true number, especially after the "zero Covid" policy ended. 0: https://covid19.who.int/region/wpro/country/cn https://covid19.who.int/region/wpro/country/cn

pixxel 3y ago
>true number True numbers. Let’s not allude that only China’s stats are… I’ll be kind and say ‘massaged’. How high is the western “died with Covid” tally?

Arson9416 3y ago

>Complications of medical and surgical care Is the ~30th cause of death in Canada. In US it's the ~3rd. Why the order of magnitude difference? Is US healthcare 10x more incompetent or are these stats massaged?

p1necone 3y ago
I wouldn't be surprised if many people in the US just don't go back to the hospital when they get infections etc from surgery because of the medical bills.
- mcpackieh 3y ago
  That wouldn't count as a medical error. Medical error is when the doctors fuck up, not the patients.
WillPostForFood 3y ago
Complications of medical and surgical care isn't in the top 10 for US. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/leading-causes-of-death.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/leading-causes-of-death.htm
- Arson9416 3y ago
  >Medical errors now vie with COVID-19 infections as the third largest cause of preventable death in the United States. https://blogs.cdc.gov/safehealthcare/patient-safety-action-plan https://blogs.cdc.gov/safehealthcare/patient-safety-action-p...
- mcpackieh 3y ago
  https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/news/media/releases/study_suggests_medical_errors_now_third_leading_cause_of_death_in_the_us https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/news/media/releases/study_su... > Analyzing medical death rate data over an eight-year period, Johns Hopkins patient safety experts have calculated that more than 250,000 deaths per year are due to medical error in the U.S. Their figure, published May 3 in The BMJ, surpasses the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s (CDC’s) third leading cause of death — respiratory disease, which kills close to 150,000 people per year. > The Johns Hopkins team says the CDC’s way of collecting national health statistics fails to classify medical errors separately on the death certificate. The researchers are advocating for updated criteria for classifying deaths on death certificates.

65892 3y ago

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Eumenes 3y ago

Died "with covid" or "of covid"..? Hmm ...

seattle_spring 3y ago
They died of covid. Any other questions we can answer for you?
- hn_ta456 3y ago
  [dead]
- renegat0x0 3y ago
  In my country if somebody died with COVID, then COVID was found as the reason of death. Hospitals had additional bonuses for writing COVID into reason of death. Therefore I read such statistics with a grain of salt. I find your comment offensive.
  - seattle_spring 3y ago
    > Hospitals had additional bonuses for writing COVID into reason of death This is an absurd conspiracy theory that has been proven untrue time and time again. I find your propagation of such debunked nonsense offensive.
    - renegat0x0 3y ago
      Not at all. As someone who has family in hospitals I can say that this happened. At least in my locality. Can you claim the same using your experience? That is why I can say these things with total certainty. Conspiracy theory is a derogatory term to dismiss any critical voices. In essence saying that something is "conspiracy theory" is meaningless, and it itself does not say anything. It does not provide evidence, nor logical thinking. It is represents non-cricital thinking towards things.
- hollerith 3y ago
  Yes: how many of them would have died anyways even if they hadn't gotten covid?