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I understand the Israeli sentiment here, but afaik they do not have a legal leverage to force him. They could of course create a new law and enforce it against

I understand the Israeli sentiment here, but afaik they do not have a legal leverage to force him. They could of course create a new law and enforce it against his companies ( in Israel ) or they can petition him to not allow connections or threaten him if he does.

mytailorisrich 3y ago
They have convincing arguments, if needed be: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow_3 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow_3 In any case, Musk/SpaceX are not going to go against Israel, and in this case ultimately against the US government. Note that if Starlink knowingly allowed the service to be used by Hamas (which is defacto the Gazawi government so any terminal in Gaza would be at risk) that would be a serious offence under US law. Obviously he's going to play ball.
- cma 3y ago
  > Note that if Starlink knowingly allowed the service to be used by Hamas (which is defacto the Gazawi government so any terminal in Gaza would be at risk) that would be a serious offence under US law. I don't know if it applies to corporations providing services, but all foreign aid to Israel is illegal in the US, since they are nuclear armed and not party to the non-proliferation treaty. We have a policy of not acknowledging that they are nuclear armed to avoid this.
  - jakeinspace 3y ago
    This is 100% true
- aaron695 3y ago
  > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow_3 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow_3 You can't seriously be suggesting any country would shoot down satellites? That would be far worse than cutting undersea data cables, which they also would never do. And it would be obvious who did it and break a lot more treaties. You might as well suggest they'd send a missile to Elon's house.
  - Pigalowda 3y ago
    I don’t think that’s how Mossad would apply pressure.
    - niemandhier 3y ago
      Probably not, but Musk has successfully build the reputation of an entity with quite random behaviour. Any normal person can be put under pressure given that what you threaten them with is more harmful than anything for retaliation they can dream up. A sufficient erratic person might retaliate despite suffering themselves. If you have little to gain by your threat and more to loose by the counter attack you can be repelled. That’s how American badgers win confrontations with grizzly bears. Let’s assume you go to Musk with a file containing some dirt on him, and tell him :” Switch if your satellites over Tuvalu or the world knows”. Is it so hard to believe the reaction to be a tweet saying: “Was approach by the Antarctican secret service and told to switch of satellites over Tuvalu, will provide internet over Tuvalu for free!” My guess is that they either buy him, or the US tells him to do what they want lest he loses government contracts. All in all this is just a prove that each block needs its own starlink clone, the sky will get crowded.
- avmich 3y ago
  > They have convincing arguments, if needed be: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow_3 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow_3 I wonder if they can reach the height of the Starlink's satellites orbit? How many satellites they need to destroy for Starlink - which adds new batches ~weekly and where a loss of a satellite is a standard situation - for that to be important for the system? Theoretically, of course. I'm pretty sure SpaceX would cooperate with Israel, with mutual benefits.
sidewndr46 3y ago
or the IDF could solve the problem in the next 15 minutes. This isn't a warning to SpaceX. It's a warning to the entire Palestinian state
- atoav 3y ago
  Ah yeah that kind of "solve": like stopping a burglar in a warehouse full of fireworks using a flamethrower. Sure, that certainly would solve your burglary problem. But thats what counts right? Let's not forget the geopolitical neighborhood in which Israel is located. The IDF "solving" the problem in 15 minutes is very likely drawing them into a (very existentially threatening) conflict with the whole region. And given the fact that roughly a million kids live in Gaza I can only imagine what kind of human it would take to even envision that as "solving" anything. The truth is that there is no military solution to this conflict.
  - cultofmetatron 3y ago
    a disturbingly large amount of Israelis don't see Palestinians as human beings. the only reason they haven't committed their own holocaust is that it would be a PR disaster for them. its a systematic issue created by a strong domination of right wing control. moderate voices and Palestine sympathizers are marginalized in their ability to change anything.
    - mikecoles 3y ago
      Not having any concern for people that want to kill you is something that should have broader support.
      - atoav 3y ago
        See, this is my problem. It is okay to have hate people who want to kill you. But that 2 year old Palestinian toddler does not want to kill you, it can't barely speak. The ~75% of Palestinians that said they do not trust the Hamas in a representative face-to-face poll weeks before the attack would probably not want to kill you either. Hate becomes a problem once it makes you twist reality to validate and fuel your hate. If you ever have been in a life threatening situation and survived, it was probably because in the right moment you went all calm and controlled and did the right thing. What Israel is currently doing is the opposite of that. The Hamas already had lost in the court of public opinion, the only way to turn that into a Hamas win is to give them the brutal, inhumane retaliation they want. A retaliation that will flame their support and motivate new bystanders. And guess what, they would use the very same argument as you. And just like you they wouldn't be completely wrong either. This is not speculation, this is guerilla warfare 101. What should have broader support is not to give emotionally uncontrollable and impulsive men the power to decide about the problems their kids will have to deal with — solutions that won't alleviate the problems, but make them worse. Makes you wonder for whom they are doing this, other than themselves.
Gibbon1 3y ago
Israel is a war with Gaza. They can jam his satellites if they are communicating with receivers in Gaza and put Musk and his companies on their naughty list.
rigid 3y ago
or they could just jam the signal.

mytailorisrich 3y ago

They have convincing arguments, if needed be: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow_3 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow_3 In any case, Musk/SpaceX are not going to go against Israel, and in this case ultimately against the US government. Note that if Starlink knowingly allowed the service to be used by Hamas (which is defacto the Gazawi government so any terminal in Gaza would be at risk) that would be a serious offence under US law. Obviously he's going to play ball.

cma 3y ago
> Note that if Starlink knowingly allowed the service to be used by Hamas (which is defacto the Gazawi government so any terminal in Gaza would be at risk) that would be a serious offence under US law. I don't know if it applies to corporations providing services, but all foreign aid to Israel is illegal in the US, since they are nuclear armed and not party to the non-proliferation treaty. We have a policy of not acknowledging that they are nuclear armed to avoid this.
- jakeinspace 3y ago
  This is 100% true
aaron695 3y ago
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow_3 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow_3 You can't seriously be suggesting any country would shoot down satellites? That would be far worse than cutting undersea data cables, which they also would never do. And it would be obvious who did it and break a lot more treaties. You might as well suggest they'd send a missile to Elon's house.
- Pigalowda 3y ago
  I don’t think that’s how Mossad would apply pressure.
  - niemandhier 3y ago
    Probably not, but Musk has successfully build the reputation of an entity with quite random behaviour. Any normal person can be put under pressure given that what you threaten them with is more harmful than anything for retaliation they can dream up. A sufficient erratic person might retaliate despite suffering themselves. If you have little to gain by your threat and more to loose by the counter attack you can be repelled. That’s how American badgers win confrontations with grizzly bears. Let’s assume you go to Musk with a file containing some dirt on him, and tell him :” Switch if your satellites over Tuvalu or the world knows”. Is it so hard to believe the reaction to be a tweet saying: “Was approach by the Antarctican secret service and told to switch of satellites over Tuvalu, will provide internet over Tuvalu for free!” My guess is that they either buy him, or the US tells him to do what they want lest he loses government contracts. All in all this is just a prove that each block needs its own starlink clone, the sky will get crowded.
avmich 3y ago
> They have convincing arguments, if needed be: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow_3 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow_3 I wonder if they can reach the height of the Starlink's satellites orbit? How many satellites they need to destroy for Starlink - which adds new batches ~weekly and where a loss of a satellite is a standard situation - for that to be important for the system? Theoretically, of course. I'm pretty sure SpaceX would cooperate with Israel, with mutual benefits.

sidewndr46 3y ago

or the IDF could solve the problem in the next 15 minutes. This isn't a warning to SpaceX. It's a warning to the entire Palestinian state

atoav 3y ago
Ah yeah that kind of "solve": like stopping a burglar in a warehouse full of fireworks using a flamethrower. Sure, that certainly would solve your burglary problem. But thats what counts right? Let's not forget the geopolitical neighborhood in which Israel is located. The IDF "solving" the problem in 15 minutes is very likely drawing them into a (very existentially threatening) conflict with the whole region. And given the fact that roughly a million kids live in Gaza I can only imagine what kind of human it would take to even envision that as "solving" anything. The truth is that there is no military solution to this conflict.
- cultofmetatron 3y ago
  a disturbingly large amount of Israelis don't see Palestinians as human beings. the only reason they haven't committed their own holocaust is that it would be a PR disaster for them. its a systematic issue created by a strong domination of right wing control. moderate voices and Palestine sympathizers are marginalized in their ability to change anything.
  - mikecoles 3y ago
    Not having any concern for people that want to kill you is something that should have broader support.
    - atoav 3y ago
      See, this is my problem. It is okay to have hate people who want to kill you. But that 2 year old Palestinian toddler does not want to kill you, it can't barely speak. The ~75% of Palestinians that said they do not trust the Hamas in a representative face-to-face poll weeks before the attack would probably not want to kill you either. Hate becomes a problem once it makes you twist reality to validate and fuel your hate. If you ever have been in a life threatening situation and survived, it was probably because in the right moment you went all calm and controlled and did the right thing. What Israel is currently doing is the opposite of that. The Hamas already had lost in the court of public opinion, the only way to turn that into a Hamas win is to give them the brutal, inhumane retaliation they want. A retaliation that will flame their support and motivate new bystanders. And guess what, they would use the very same argument as you. And just like you they wouldn't be completely wrong either. This is not speculation, this is guerilla warfare 101. What should have broader support is not to give emotionally uncontrollable and impulsive men the power to decide about the problems their kids will have to deal with — solutions that won't alleviate the problems, but make them worse. Makes you wonder for whom they are doing this, other than themselves.

Gibbon1 3y ago

Israel is a war with Gaza. They can jam his satellites if they are communicating with receivers in Gaza and put Musk and his companies on their naughty list.

rigid 3y ago

or they could just jam the signal.