8 ms·

while this comment is true, not sure what it has to do with the article. from my understanding tesla is actually suing the state because there’s a law saying l

by kmlx 3y ago

while this comment is true, not sure what it has to do with the article. from my understanding tesla is actually suing the state because there’s a law saying license plates can only be delivered via post. and the postal workers refuse to deliver anything to tesla (which seems a bit crazy considering there are laws about using the postal services). but maybe i misunderstood something, so someone can correct me if i’m wrong.

ceejayoz 3y ago
The point is that the law explicitly permits the postal union to do this. Tesla's suit is probably going nowhere.
- brandonagr2 3y ago
  https://techcrunch.com/2023/11/27/sweden-sides-with-tesla-says-transport-agency-must-deliver-plates-or-pay-up/ https://techcrunch.com/2023/11/27/sweden-sides-with-tesla-sa... "Norrköping district court said the agency must find a way to get the plates to Tesla within seven days or pay a fine of 1 million Swedish crowns (~$96,000)."
  - ceejayoz 3y ago
    That's a temporary injunction while things are litigated.
- bjornsing 3y ago
  But there are obviously also other laws in Sweden. For (an obvious) example, the police union can’t decline to investigate crimes against Tesla owners.
  - user_named 3y ago
    [flagged]
  - BurningFrog 3y ago
    Are you sure? Can you point to a concrete law stating this?
    - martin8412 3y ago
      The Scandinavian countries are generally quite similar in these matters. In Denmark, uniformed police can't strike. It's part of the way they're employed, in return, they're almost impossible to fire except for cases of gross violation of their duty. I'm almost certain Sweden is the same, but I'd love for a Swede to chime in. It's called Tjenestemænd in Danish.
- Pungsnigel 3y ago
  It's unclear though? There are also laws regarding mail services I believe.
- cypress66 3y ago
  Tesla isn't demanding the postal union to ship them the plates, they are demanding to be allowed to pick up the plates by themselves.
  - ceejayoz 3y ago
    Pick up the plates from whom? They don't just teleport into a stack in the parking lot of the post office on their own. A pickup would involve employees. Who are members of the union.
    - moogly 3y ago
      The manufacturer. Scandinavian Motor Center.
    - vasvae3 3y ago
      Whatever the equivalent of the DMV in Sweden is?
      - ceejayoz 3y ago
        I'd presume those plates get from the license plate factory to the DMV offices somehow. I'd presume that method isn't carrier pigeon.
        Jensson 3y ago
        Tesla said they would want to pick it up at the factory. The factory is putting them in nice packages to be delivered.
        ceejayoz 3y ago
        The factory says they can't do this. > According to the Transport Agency, current regulations mean it is only able to distribute number plates using Postnord.
        3y ago
Pungsnigel 3y ago
No, you got it quite right I think. The government agency in question has a deal with Postnord (owned mainly by the Swedish state) to utilise them for all mail services. License plates has to be sent by mail. Postnord employees refuses to do so to Tesla. I believe they've also said they'd refuse to hand them out to Tesla should they come asking for them. In effect, not legal way for Tesla to sell cars in Sweden at this point.
- Stranger43 3y ago
  At least not directly, if they sell via a dealership/importer who employs unionized labor they have no problem it's only direct from Tesla sales that's impacted but then again a big part of Tesla's model is of cause that they don't use franchised dealerships as middlemen.
piva00 3y ago
> and the postal workers refuse to deliver anything to tesla (which seems a bit crazy considering there are laws about using the postal services). It's not crazy when you understand the Swedish model: labour laws are minimal, setting just a very basic framework which is then taken to employers + employees negotiations to set the other terms of employment for an industry, in that it's a pretty free labour market. The counterpoint is that it's required that employers and employees collaborate to set the minimum arrangements for employment. Tesla is refusing to abide by this model, in the Swedish model sympathy strikes are legal since that's one way that employees from other industries can support other workers in their struggles, the employees of PostNord decided to take sympathy action against Tesla for what they consider an attack to the whole model of employment and labour in the nation. What is crazy is a company trying to subjugate a whole nation's system of employment for their own benefit, for that Tesla is being collectively punished by workers in other industries for trying to undermine the labour market as a whole.
- jjgreen 3y ago
  Interesting to compare the Swedish model to the UK's. Here, employers can do whatever they like, unions need a full postal ballot to fart.
- Pungsnigel 3y ago
  Lots of companies work without collective agreements in Sweden though. Under law it's completely free if you want to do so or not. You could as well say that the unions are threatening the Swedish model due to taking this to such extreme levels. Especially as it doesn't seem most employees at Tesla want the unions involved.
  - piva00 3y ago
    They do while conditions are ok, it seems like conditions are not ok for these workers hence they pushing for a CBA. And while lots of companies work without a CBA here in Sweden, 90% of employees are covered by CBAs, so the vast majority are covered by one and Tesla fighting this by bringing scabs (a huge, huge no-no in here) is quite stupid. If they thought a CBA would be bad for business then strikes are even worse, it's their choice now to sign one or not with all the costs associated on not having one.

by kmlx 3y ago

ceejayoz 3y ago

The point is that the law explicitly permits the postal union to do this. Tesla's suit is probably going nowhere.

brandonagr2 3y ago
https://techcrunch.com/2023/11/27/sweden-sides-with-tesla-says-transport-agency-must-deliver-plates-or-pay-up/ https://techcrunch.com/2023/11/27/sweden-sides-with-tesla-sa... "Norrköping district court said the agency must find a way to get the plates to Tesla within seven days or pay a fine of 1 million Swedish crowns (~$96,000)."
- ceejayoz 3y ago
  That's a temporary injunction while things are litigated.
bjornsing 3y ago
But there are obviously also other laws in Sweden. For (an obvious) example, the police union can’t decline to investigate crimes against Tesla owners.
- user_named 3y ago
  [flagged]
- BurningFrog 3y ago
  Are you sure? Can you point to a concrete law stating this?
  - martin8412 3y ago
    The Scandinavian countries are generally quite similar in these matters. In Denmark, uniformed police can't strike. It's part of the way they're employed, in return, they're almost impossible to fire except for cases of gross violation of their duty. I'm almost certain Sweden is the same, but I'd love for a Swede to chime in. It's called Tjenestemænd in Danish.
Pungsnigel 3y ago
It's unclear though? There are also laws regarding mail services I believe.
cypress66 3y ago
Tesla isn't demanding the postal union to ship them the plates, they are demanding to be allowed to pick up the plates by themselves.
- ceejayoz 3y ago
  Pick up the plates from whom? They don't just teleport into a stack in the parking lot of the post office on their own. A pickup would involve employees. Who are members of the union.
  - moogly 3y ago
    The manufacturer. Scandinavian Motor Center.
  - vasvae3 3y ago
    Whatever the equivalent of the DMV in Sweden is?
    - ceejayoz 3y ago
      I'd presume those plates get from the license plate factory to the DMV offices somehow. I'd presume that method isn't carrier pigeon.
      - Jensson 3y ago
        Tesla said they would want to pick it up at the factory. The factory is putting them in nice packages to be delivered.
        ceejayoz 3y ago
        The factory says they can't do this. > According to the Transport Agency, current regulations mean it is only able to distribute number plates using Postnord.
        3y ago

Pungsnigel 3y ago

No, you got it quite right I think. The government agency in question has a deal with Postnord (owned mainly by the Swedish state) to utilise them for all mail services. License plates has to be sent by mail. Postnord employees refuses to do so to Tesla. I believe they've also said they'd refuse to hand them out to Tesla should they come asking for them. In effect, not legal way for Tesla to sell cars in Sweden at this point.

Stranger43 3y ago
At least not directly, if they sell via a dealership/importer who employs unionized labor they have no problem it's only direct from Tesla sales that's impacted but then again a big part of Tesla's model is of cause that they don't use franchised dealerships as middlemen.

piva00 3y ago

> and the postal workers refuse to deliver anything to tesla (which seems a bit crazy considering there are laws about using the postal services). It's not crazy when you understand the Swedish model: labour laws are minimal, setting just a very basic framework which is then taken to employers + employees negotiations to set the other terms of employment for an industry, in that it's a pretty free labour market. The counterpoint is that it's required that employers and employees collaborate to set the minimum arrangements for employment. Tesla is refusing to abide by this model, in the Swedish model sympathy strikes are legal since that's one way that employees from other industries can support other workers in their struggles, the employees of PostNord decided to take sympathy action against Tesla for what they consider an attack to the whole model of employment and labour in the nation. What is crazy is a company trying to subjugate a whole nation's system of employment for their own benefit, for that Tesla is being collectively punished by workers in other industries for trying to undermine the labour market as a whole.

jjgreen 3y ago
Interesting to compare the Swedish model to the UK's. Here, employers can do whatever they like, unions need a full postal ballot to fart.
Pungsnigel 3y ago
Lots of companies work without collective agreements in Sweden though. Under law it's completely free if you want to do so or not. You could as well say that the unions are threatening the Swedish model due to taking this to such extreme levels. Especially as it doesn't seem most employees at Tesla want the unions involved.
- piva00 3y ago
  They do while conditions are ok, it seems like conditions are not ok for these workers hence they pushing for a CBA. And while lots of companies work without a CBA here in Sweden, 90% of employees are covered by CBAs, so the vast majority are covered by one and Tesla fighting this by bringing scabs (a huge, huge no-no in here) is quite stupid. If they thought a CBA would be bad for business then strikes are even worse, it's their choice now to sign one or not with all the costs associated on not having one.