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Where Is OpenCV 5?
- crossroadsguy 3y agoTooling around OpenCV and documentation is so intractable. Having said that it is an integral part of anything on any Android project that deals with what OpenCV does. Because while iOS has a pretty capable Vision lib Google's Android has nothing even compared to that. So your only option is to seek and try solutions in the wild based on OpenCV and then hope that after enough hit and trial you are able to generate the right .so files specific to your solution and not the 100s or dozens of MB large files for multiple platforms. But on many platforms OpenCV is the only option and whatever challenges come with it, it does work!
- jimmoores 3y agoWhy are the words 'Computer Vision' not above the fold on the front page? How am I supposed to know that CV stands for Computer Vision rather than Curriculum Vitae?
- nightfly 3y agoWhere is where is OpenCV 5?
- quietbritishjim 3y agoAppears to be here: https://opencv.org/blog/where-is-opencv-5/ https://opencv.org/blog/where-is-opencv-5/
- speps 3y agoTL,DR: they're raising funds to release it: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/opencv-5-support-non-profit-open-source-cv-ai#/ https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/opencv-5-support-non-prof...
- vdfs 3y agoraised 8% of $500,000
- dr_zoidberg 3y agoAs of now 9%. I thought hitting the HN front page could have a much larger impact on this, but it seems that's about it this time.
- canada_dry 3y agoIt isn't a great sign when a tool as ubiquitous for computer vision isn't getting to its relatively meager $500K goal. I've chipped in - not for the future V5 - but to recognize that OpenCV is a tool that I've been using for years for various small personal projects.
- phh 3y ago500k$ for the impact OpenCV has is dirt cheap. It is a shame they need to do a fund raiser at all. It is a bigger shame I hear about it only now. There are 7 digits "EU sovereignty of AI" projects, that would be so much more efficient by just putting 10% of that money in OSS projects...
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- nine_k 3y agoBut aren't the "IT sovereignty" projects mostly about adopting OSS solutions?
- preisschild 3y agoNot for the EU. For the EU it just means that the company that makes it is located within the EU.
- _ache_ 3y agoPolitics are playing politics. Also, the EU is pretty liberal and US big tech company are lobbying a lot against FOSS. Politics don't understand free software, and the people who should be teaching it (GAFAM) don't, because it's not in their interest. As a liberal, free software worth nothing. Big tech worth a lot. They don't understand that's about tools and know-how, not about human resources and money.
- bee_rider 3y agoI wonder how open source works in that framework. I wonder if “we make the device, but use an open source library, we didn’t develop it, but could at least fork and maintain operations if we needed” is acceptable.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
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- suyash 3y agoIs it still relevant in the days of Tensorflow, Pytorch and other high level frameworks that solve computer vision with ease?
- marcyb5st 3y agoYes, big time. For instance, once you have segmented the image you should use something like openCV to extract contours of the segmentation mask.
- fleischhauf 3y agoas far as I am aware opencv has a lot of classical Computer Vision stuff that is missing in tensorflow/pytorch. In case you need speed, or can't have data annotation, or something where deep learning is not super useful (slam) it's still very relevant I'd say.
- ptero 3y agoAbsolutely. Not all computer vision problems are AI related and not all AI problems are solved by pytorch. If I need a program for, say, soft real-time processing of some industrial automation video streams to run on a low power system opencv is my #1 choice. My 2c.
- nine_k 3y agoOpenCV and "AI" can work well together; see YOLO: https://pjreddie.com/darknet/yolo/ https://pjreddie.com/darknet/yolo/
- jonas21 3y agoIn that example, they're using OpenCV to display images and read from the webcam for a demo. At one point, they make it clear that OpenCV isn't used for any of the CV parts: > We didn't compile Darknet with OpenCV so it can't display the detections directly. Instead, it saves them in predictions.png. You can open it to see the detected objects.
- chillfox 3y ago
- nuz 3y ago"Deep Neural Networks Module: $150k" seems kind of unecessary. Torch/tensorflow already fills that niche so well.
- fleischhauf 3y agoagreed, they should just have a good interoperability
- londons_explore 3y agoI think this $150k is just for building that interoperability. At today's salaries, that pays for, what, 1 month of some ML engineers time to integrate all the big ML frameworks into OpenCV? Doubt you could do any decent job of it in a month...
- wokwokwok 3y agoLlama.cpp and the entire ecosystem around it show that there’s clearly space for more than torch in this space. Why would opencv, the all singing all dancing C++ computer vision framework not have a DNN module? Why would it say “use a Python library”? (And yes, torch is deprecating its c++ support). Not having it would be strange.
- synergy20 3y agowhat do you mean by saying "pytorch is deprecating c++"
- wokwokwok 3y agoDo your own research. Here’s a starting point: https://discuss.pytorch.org/t/pytorch-2-and-the-c-interface/168034 https://discuss.pytorch.org/t/pytorch-2-and-the-c-interface/...
- formerly_proven 3y ago> Why would opencv, the all singing all dancing C++ computer vision framework not have a DNN module? https://docs.opencv.org/4.x/d2/d58/tutorial_table_of_content_dnn.html https://docs.opencv.org/4.x/d2/d58/tutorial_table_of_content... In particular, OpenCV DNN is as far as I know the fastest CPU implementation for darknet/yolo networks.
- 3836293648 3y ago404 now? Has the link been replaced?
- gmiller123456 3y agoStill works for me.
- gumballindie 3y agoAi companies are in the business of stealing code and ip. Not surprised they cant be bothered to donate.
- DonHopkins 3y agoAt least it's a step up from web3 companies in the business of stealing and laundering money by burning coal and scamming senior citizens.
- gumballindie 3y agoAgreed - but ai companies are exploiting people’s willingness to see things which are not there. Still bad.
- cmrdporcupine 3y agoHonestly it's in large part of the same root cause, isn't it? Venture capital hype pipeline.
- DonHopkins 3y agoAgain, hyping and investing in something that has practical real-world applications is a step up from hyping and investing in something that doesn't.
- cmrdporcupine 3y agoAgreed
- Decabytes 3y agoWe have seen this time and time again. Open source libraries/authors begging for a pittance while the large projects built on top of them are flush with cash. Sure there are success stories like Blender, but those are products of survivorship bias. There is no reason that OpenCV should be struggling to get 500k with all the projects that use it. It's really crappy that large organizations can still keep benefiting from these projects without putting any resources into them. Again I know some companies have donated to open source projects, or hired developers but that is the exception. Part of me wonders if Copy left viral licenses are the only way to combat this. If you are going to use a bunch of critical open source projects in your code base, and you aren't going to pay, you should at least pay it forward by making your source code available. I've seen some people mention creating some sort of license that is Open source, but if you make more than X amount of money or have X amount of employees then you have to pay X amount in licensing fees. That seems reasonable and still allows small projects to still use these libraries like they always have. But then again that's pretty hard to enforce. And if the GPL is anything to go by, then a license doesn't necessarily stop flagrant misuse of the software anyway
- makeworld 3y agoSome licenses like that: https://polyformproject.org/licenses/small-business/1.0.0 https://polyformproject.org/licenses/small-business/1.0.0 https://bigtimelicense.com/ https://bigtimelicense.com/
- ilirium 3y agoOn the crowdfunding page [1] they revealed causes why they decided to run the campaign: > Our goals with crowdfunding the development of OpenCV 5 are several: 1) To make OpenCV 5 our biggest release ever, with the most community participation of any version so far, 2) To prove to other struggling open source projects that crowdfunding is a viable option over seeking corporate donations exclusively, 3) To create a sustainable method of fundraising that OpenCV can return to year after year, making the overall organization and project more robust to global instability. > Recently, due to global conflicts and instability, OpenCV has lost several core team members, and this has slowed progress on both new feature development and the handling of bugs and requests in the GitHub repository. > Crowdfunding development of a big Open Source project like OpenCV is a big move. We aren’t aware of ANYONE doing it at this scale. As a non-profit organization, we are constantly fighting to find funding, but we always find support in our community. Instead of spending our time chasing big checks from billionaires, we are putting that community front and center. [1] https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/opencv-5-support-non-profit-open-source-cv-ai#/ https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/opencv-5-support-non-prof...
- Rochus 3y agoI'm still using OpenCV 3 and am more than happy with it. Why does every library or application have to be blown up so much that it ends up being too big and complex for a voluntary open source project?
- dr_zoidberg 3y agoWhen I moved some projects from OpenCV 3 to 4 I got a nice speed up pretty much everywhere, some things no speed up at all and some others pretty big. I can't really remember the numbers, but at the moment it was a global 10 to 20% perf improvement just on updating a library. Might want to check that. Also 4.something got SIFT as part of OpenCV (instead of living in the contrib module) because the patent expired and you can now use it for free. As for blowing up with NN packages and such... I don't really use those parts, but if the NN module had easier support to run networks trained on popular frameworks I might've used it. Disclaimer: it's been quite a while since I last tried to use those parts, so maybe now the latest version has fantastic support and I'm talking nonsense.
- Rochus 3y agoThanks. I had a close look at v4, but didn't see a reason to update. Some functions got a bit faster on some architectures, some a bit slower, as usual.
- cma 3y agoMachine vision is presumably still advancing and new techniques are added, or are they only adding complexity?
- Rochus 3y agoWell, the term "computer vision" (CV) is apparently too vague and unstable to restrict the functional scope of a still manageable library with it. Perhaps they should consider to move the parts that are now apparently beyond the scope and for which they are collecting money into a new library under a new name, rather than endlessly inflating something mature and proven.
- jphoward 3y agoI like opencv, but can there be a stretch goal where if they raise $1M they agree to move from Blue/Green/Red colour channel order by default to RGB in OpenCV5, like everyone else on planet earth? I genuinely avoid opencv for this reason because I know I will forget to BGR->RGB on loading and RGB->BGR before saving occasionally, and so I'd rather stick to skimage/imageio/PIL. Or hell, add an `as_rgb=False` parameter to the load/save functions or something!
- addandsubtract 3y ago> The reason the early developers at OpenCV chose BGR color format is that back then BGR color format was popular among camera manufacturers and software providers. E.g. in Windows, when specifying color value using COLORREF they use the BGR format 0x00bbggrr. For anyone curious about why OpenCV uses BGR: https://learnopencv.com/why-does-opencv-use-bgr-color-format/ https://learnopencv.com/why-does-opencv-use-bgr-color-format...
- maille 3y agoIsn't OpenCV mostly developed/funded by Intel?
- ormax3 3y agoWhile OpenCV was born at Intel, I don't think it's solely developed by Intel anymore, there's now a non-profit organization in charge of the project: https://opencv.org/opencv-platinum-membership/ https://opencv.org/opencv-platinum-membership/
- voqv 3y agoYes, same impression here. I remember trying to get some documentation fixes into the codebase and felt like it all got shelved because the Intel team didn't see those things as necessary. Some community PRs/fixes just went stale like that too. Kind of now hard to merge that in my head that they now need to crowdfund.
- orangepurple 3y agoIf I remember correctly there was a team in Belarus working full time on OpenCV at one point. Anti-Russia sanctions may have killed OpenCV if this is true.
- philnelson 3y agoIntel offers some support, but not at the level they were before.
- LeafItAlone 3y agoOpenCV is great and I would love to donate to them. But it seems like a substantial percentage of the donation goes to Indiegogo or their fees. Based on [1], it seems like 8% of your donation goes to Indiegogo and processing fees. Is that right or am I misunderstanding? 1. https://learn.indiegogo.com/pricing-and-fees/ https://learn.indiegogo.com/pricing-and-fees/
- geerlingguy 3y agoI read that as 5%. And when you donate you can set the "tip" to 0% so all your donation goes to the org.
- LeafItAlone 3y agoI think it adds to 8%. This page [1] makes it clearer. They charge 5% and their “payment processor also charges a processing fee” which in the US is 3%. The tip seems to be something entirely separate, which is _additional_ money, on top of your donation, that only goes to IGG, based on another [2] article. You probably have more experience here though. Your work is great and I always appreciate your posts. 1. https://support.indiegogo.com/hc/en-us/articles/204456408-Fees-Pricing-for-Campaigners-How-much-does-Indiegogo-cost- https://support.indiegogo.com/hc/en-us/articles/204456408-Fe... 2. https://computerengineeringforbabies.com/blogs/news/why-i-havent-run-an-indiegogo-campaign https://computerengineeringforbabies.com/blogs/news/why-i-ha...
- ok123456 3y agoI made an $11 donation, and Indigogo used a dark pattern, automatically selecting it, to try to make me "tip" Indigogo $10 on top of that! A 90.9% "tip!" NO THANKS. A tip is for a service rendered. Not for being a mendicant middleman.
- elric 3y agoDoes it even matter? When I pay for bread with my credit card, a large portion of the price of the bread goes to the credit card company and the payment processor. Should that stop me from paying for bread? Sure, the baker -- or OpenCV -- would be happier if they got a bigger slice of the pie, but that's just the cost of doing business.
- victor9000 3y agoDonate all you want but, most importantly, talk to your manager about making a corporate donation.
- philnelson 3y agoThis is true
- v3ss0n 3y agoI am surprised to see that OpenCV don't have backers till now. Many large corps might had made billions just using openCV as core tech. - Military projects - KYC Services - Goverment projects - Survelliance projets - Drones Those are the biggest users of openCV and those are billion dollar industries.
- cmrdporcupine 3y agoThey won't pay until they're made to.
- sroussey 3y agoThose are people that prefer not to advertise their supply chain.
- kaycebasques 3y agoI pitched in $21. OpenCV is magic.
- philnelson 3y agoThank you!
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- Joel_Mckay 3y agoAh yes, openCV at one time made ImageMagick easier to use, and could be compiled in C. There were even projects focused on transparent fpga hardware acceleration for video streams. Now, it is a C++ dependency nightmare with conflicting documentation of basic data structures, version specific bugs, and hidden impossible-to-license patents. It is a cautionary tale of allowing a Second-system effect to twist a project into a set of use-cases for a smaller subset of users. The core issue was not major version releases, but constant breaking library changes in sub dot version releases. Thus, they turned most of the user-base into full time Beta testers. They should have forked the library at 4, but knew no one would change what already worked. =)
- bjelkeman-again 3y agoIt is interesting browsing the OpenCV website. I didn’t find anything saying what it is, at least not fewer that 3-4 clicks away.
- philnelson 3y agoI agree with this one
- dzign 3y agoPython elevated OpenCV to a new level. I Think node/graph/workflow interface would do the same. Examples are not missing: Blender, ComfyUI, FFmpeg.guide, ...