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I keep seeing Edge mentioned as a worthy alternative, and I just don't get it. First, all Chromium-based browsers will eventually block uBlock Origin for the s

I keep seeing Edge mentioned as a worthy alternative, and I just don't get it. First, all Chromium-based browsers will eventually block uBlock Origin for the sole reason that they can't maintain Manifest v2 on their own, and they all rely on Chrome's Web Store anyway. This won't happen immediately because Manifest v2 will probably stick around for longer because of enterprise users, but the writing is on the wall. Then there's the fact that Edge is just Microsoft's spyware, being worse in my book than Google's Chrome. And people forget that Microsoft is also an advertising company. Even if that's not their main revenue source, they also hate your ad-blockers. In the EU, when you open Edge for the first time, they ask you to agree to sharing your personal data with the entire advertising industry, via an IAB dialog. And there's no way to workaround it, you have to answer it (with the rejection being an agreement to “legitimate interest” claims, which are BS). Google's Chrome does not do this, and searching on google.com only asks for sharing of data with Google itself. Edge also exposes an advertising ID, meant for Bing's Ads, much like what Chrome does for Google. And in true Microsoft spirit, it also has telemetry, which you can't turn off. Edge doesn't end-to-end encrypt your synchronized data. Compared with Chrome, which at least supports an “encryption passphrase” that does e2e encryption. Don't get me wrong, Chrome is also cursed because with a passphrase, they don't synchronize all your history. And also, they keep turning on that option for sharing your browsing history with Google, for the purpose of improving search. But in terms of what browser is more adversarial towards users, Edge is worse, IMO. And Edge is hard-coded to use Bing. It's harder to use Edge without Bing or Microsoft's online services, than it is to use Chrome without Google. Personally, I don't want my browser to tie me to certain online services. Seriously, Edge is just Microsoft's spyware and a piece of crap. Other Chromium alternatives, like Vivaldi or Brave, are better, firstly because they aren't so adversarial. Or if you're on macOS, give Arc a try.

subtra3t 3y ago
I use Vivaldi (and firefox before that) but a reason to use Edge is because it's supposedly very resource-efficient.
- bad_user 3y ago
  It's the same Chromium, it can't be more resource-efficient. It did have some tricks, but “energy saver” and “memory saver” modes have been added to Chromium.
  - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
    It can be more efficent on Windows where Edge is first class passenger similar to how Safari is more efficient on MacOS. Try looking at battery life. You can easily squeeze more juice on Edge than on FF/Chrome.
- agentgumshoe 3y ago
  What percentage of users actually, really care how marginally more efficient their web browser is these days?
  - subtra3t 3y ago
    I'm not saying that many users will care about their browser's performance. I'm just saying that that is a potential reason to use Edge.
  - ParetoOptimal 3y ago
    Given that most computers I see have a billion tabs open, I'd guess most of them.
closeparen 3y ago
"Legitimate interest" is a different basis from "consent." It doesn't matter whether you agree to it or not, you aren't empowering anything that wasn't already going to happen.
- account42 3y ago
  You are empowering them by continuing to use the service/application after they have quite clearly told you that they are going to try to work around the law against your interests.
Beldin 3y ago
> In the EU, when you open Edge for the first time, they ask you to agree to sharing your personal data with the entire advertising industry, via an IAB dialog. I didn't know that. I do know that the GDPR requires user consent to be revocable....
londons_explore 3y ago
> they can't maintain Manifest v2 on their own The code for manifest v2 is really very simple (when you know that functionality for manifest v3 must remain available) - maintenance of it as an unmerged patch would be pretty straightforward. I suspect such a patch could be just 10's of lines of code - you're simply changing the condition list under which a web request can be blocking or not.
- aembleton 3y ago
  Isn't it about keeping the manifest v2 API running?
  - londons_explore 3y ago
    It isn't a server API or anything... It's just some code in chrome, and it has to remain because it's still allowed to be used in Manifest v3 but for a narrower scope of usecases. (Note - I'm specifically talking about the controversial WebRequestBlocking part of the changes - the rest of the manifest v2 to v3 migration is largely just like a python 2>3 migration - there is equivalent functionality for everything).
- rekoil 3y ago
  I thought the accepted solution was to just add Blocking WebRequest to the Manifest v3 implementation, which should be simpler than maintaining the entire v2 specification.
_cenw 3y ago
People who don't see the problem with Edge must all be domain joined or on Pro for Workstations / Enterprise. Supposedly the browser doesn't annoy "confirmed" business customers as much. I recently switched to the RC Insider ring just to get the EU digital markets update, which lets you uninstall Edge. Because it started doing incredibly creepy stuff. * Keeps asking me every day if I want to keep my new tab extension. No way to set a blank page either. If you don't use an extension, it's "Microsoft Home" (which doesn't even let you properly set your own background, and keeps showing me squids, no thanks). Despite me clicking no every time, it still occasionally disables it. I think there may be a timeout, and then the disabled plugin syncs everywhere. * Asked me if it could shouldersurf my Kagi searches and scrape them to improve Bing. If I was Kagi, I'd think about blocking the Edge user agent. * Upon clicking "no" on the point above, it changed my search engine to Bing. * Edge also has a feature to regularly scrape other Browsers for their history to submit to Microsoft. Given every other Edge feature did not respect my consent in an honestly gaslighting fashion, I don't feel confident any browsing data on a Windows machine is private unless you install the above Release Candidate and set your Region to EU to uninstall Edge. Here's the guide I followed. Just set your region to Ireland or something: https://www.partitionwizard.com/news/uninstall-microsoft-edge-bing.html https://www.partitionwizard.com/news/uninstall-microsoft-edg...
- account42 3y ago
  > I don't feel confident any browsing data on a Windows machine is private unless you install the above Release Candidate and set your Region to EU to uninstall Edge. You are still coping thinking you can somehow outplay Microsoft. You can't. Stop using software made by obviously hostile entities.
  - _cenw 3y ago
    hey, thanks for clicking on my profile to leave a snarky drive-by comment you can stop now
- Dah00n 3y ago
  >to get the EU digital markets update, which lets you uninstall Edge. Again — as a former anti-EU person — I am reminded why I am now pro-EU. While nowhere perfect it is much better than not having an EU and way, way better than the US.
pyeri 3y ago
I see some hope in Vivaldi. Even though chromium based, I don't see them getting more and more intrusive into your life and machine like the other big tech are doing. Plus it is also open source now[1], so no different than firefox, etc. even in that sense. The other place I see some hope left is the "ungoogled" chromium browser. Though the amount of hooves you need to jump in order to get a stable release (corresponding to official chrome) on a windows or mac is preposterous, you eventually do get a portable, non-intrusive and much kosher version of chrome browser which isn't bad. [1] https://vivaldi.com/source/ https://vivaldi.com/source/
- Dah00n 3y ago
  The problem with these Chromium based browsers is that this is helping strangle the only real alternative to Chrome. You might not sell your soul to Google, but you still help Google keep their stranglehold on web standards, etc. Of course, a single person is always irrelevant in the big picture, but combined Vivaldi, Brave, etc. are helping strangle Firefox and helping prop up Google's heavy hand on web standards.
  - dubcanada 3y ago
    It's Firefoxs fault that Chromium took over, Firefox just had to copy what Google did with Chrome (which is make a version that is easily integrated in other applications). It had years to do so, and did not. I am not blaming Firefox for the rise in Chrome, but I am blaming them for the rise in Chromium. They have a solid alternative and didn't care enough to capitalize on it. Who knows in another timeline with changes it's possible Firefox Gecko rained supreme in the embeddable space. So let's say you're a bunch of ex-Opera employees who want to start a new browser, are you going to write an entire browser engine yourself? No who has time and money to pay hundreds of developers for years just to catch up. You're going to use a off the shelf version and modify it. Can you use Firefox? No, good luck integrating it into anything, it's extremely difficult. Firefox actively suggests not trying to embed it. Can you use Chrome/Chromium? Yes it's easy and readily available SDK that even has thousands of implementation examples. Can you use Webkit? Yes you can, but it's only managed by Apple and a select group of smaller companies, you are at the mercy of Apple. It also has poor support in some areas. So you end up going through pros and cons and Chromium is the result. It's not the result of a bunch of Google loving companies, it's just pure developer economics. It gives you the best possible start.
wkat4242 3y ago
Yeah I don't understand Microsoft trying to push Edge so much and more so, people actually falling for it. They're admitting that they are unable to build a good browser themselves, then they basically rip off chrome and skin it up a bit and we're supposed to think it's amazing?? And then they start adding all this scamware like the "shopping assistant" and "buy now pay later" scams. Google doesn't even go that far and they do most of the work making this browser. I didn't even know it was so difficult to get away from Bing as I only use it at work. I see why business admins love it so much, because it is of course well supported by their management ecosystem. Also, Microsoft lobbied the top brass at companies like crazy to make it the default browser and gain marketshare. Even every call sharing a screen with a MS consultant resulted in "Why are you not on Edge yet??" :( It's like they get paid per conversion or something. Edit: PS I hate both Chrome and Edge for their privacy invasion (as you mentioned) but if I would use either I would use the real thing and not the knockoff.
- Dah00n 3y ago
  > I would use the real thing and not the knockoff. So you are not a fan of Brave either? A lesser Devil is still a Devil, after all.
  - wkat4242 3y ago
    Nope definitely not. Besides it reusing the engine supporting Google's monopoly I also don't like the BAT token concept.
jiki 3y ago
Edge is bloated and spyware for sure, but there're always people who would love to trade privacy for convenience.
runiq 3y ago
None of that is a problem in Firefox.
- account42 3y ago
  If only that were true. > Then there's the fact that Edge is just Microsoft's spyware, being worse in my book than Google's Chrome. And people forget that Microsoft is also an advertising company. Even if that's not their main revenue source, they also hate your ad-blockers. People forget that Mozilla is also almost exclusively funded by the advertisement industry. They have also experimented with including ads directly in the browser on multiple occasions. Including ones force pushed though a back door (experiments). > And in true Microsoft spirit, it also has telemetry, which you can't turn off. While you can turn of Telemetry in Firefox it is on by default and new channels are being added all the time which are again on by default. Mozilla is controlled opposition with the emphasis being on controlled with opposition being more of a formality.
- bad_user 3y ago
  Indeed. I wrote that post, and I must say, I currently use Firefox, but I have a love-hate relationship with it. I can list many things I dislike about Firefox, and I understand if people don't like it. But overall, yes, it's a good alternative for most people.
FirmwareBurner 3y ago
>Then there's the fact that Edge is just Microsoft's spyware, being worse in my book than Google's Chrome. Out of curiosity, is there any objective proof that Microsoft-Edge is worse for privacy than Google-Chrome, or is it just a subjective "Google=Good Microsoft=Bad" feeling?
- bad_user 3y ago
  I already answered your question in the post you're replying to.
  - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
    But that wasn't an objective analysis, that's just your highly opinionated opinion with which I found some flaws in, as in you're wrong about several statements. >Google's Chrome does not do this, and searching on google.com only asks for sharing of data with Google itself. You mean sharing your data with Google THE ad-company which then shares your data to advertisers? How is that any more private? >And in true Microsoft spirit, it also has telemetry, which you can't turn off. Same as Chrome on this front. >And Edge is hard-coded to use Bing. No it's not, you can change it. https://www.google.com/homepage/search/sp-edge-p.html https://www.google.com/homepage/search/sp-edge-p.html Nothing wrong with having a strong opininated opinion on a matter, but you can't just sell it as objective facts.
    - tentacleuno 3y ago
      > No it's not, you can change it. Aside from the big blue Bing button in the user-chrome (and the MS sidebar), and the fact that switching your search engine in Edge involves jumping through a surprising amount of hoops, as opposed to Chrom[ium/e]. I haven't counted the number of steps, but it's definitely more than Chromium-based browsers -- they seem to have intentionally buried it in Settings (it's right at the bottom of one of the pages), and you get a ton of "Bing is great!" messaging when you do finally figure out how to switch it. P.S. That demo you linked shows an outdated version of Edge.
devnullbrain 3y ago
>Edge also exposes an advertising ID, meant for Bing's Ads, much like what Chrome does for Google. And in true Microsoft spirit, it also has telemetry, which you can't turn off. Answering the question 'what is the motivation for Microsoft to pay for Edge development?' also answers the question 'why is Edge not an acceptable alternative to Chrome?'
pennybanks 3y ago
well i guess you can say spyware but piece of crap is probably not accurate. i mean its got the most features by far and seemingly has the most resources and manpower being dedicated for development and upgrade. crap is not so accurate. also because a company uses a lot of tracking on their product doesnt make them an AD company lol. but lets not get it twisted every browser is technically spyware thats the business of web browsers... i mean brave is to me the most deceitful. for one a VPN that installs background processes for windows users even if you dont want it. reinstalls on updates. and you know how much brave loves to force those background updaters on you. https://www.ghacks.net/2023/10/18/brave-is-installing-vpn-services-without-user-consent/ https://www.ghacks.net/2023/10/18/brave-is-installing-vpn-se... https://github.com/brave/brave-browser/issues/33726 https://github.com/brave/brave-browser/issues/33726 or how the most popular browser privacy test is run by a brave employee.. hmm guess which browser scores the highest and a favorable testing environment with the settings https://privacytests.org/ https://privacytests.org/ he eventually disclosed his employer in the back area of that website somewhere so thats better i guess. another one is how certain settings on brave search always reverts back on. or just one the send analytics one. if you use search on a different browser not their own. and etc. and firefox is funded in large part by google.. do you really think they dont share information? honestly acting like your browser is superior because no tracking is so silly lol. just use whatever browser you want and tune settings to your liking. harden if you must and move on. is it that much of a hassel? would you rather pay subscription for no tracking? youll never not be tracked by ads on a free model its too much incentive and the internet is too controlled. you know when you use these product you pay with your privacy and ads its honestly a great deal. at least for me and probably most of the users. imagine paying monthly for edge having time limit package tiers, having to buy packs of google searches, websites have a entrance fee if they dont sell products. btw im on thorium on linux i dont have a edge/microsoft bias. nor am i some shill for big companies i tend to use alternatives. but im not a sucker anymore for the illusion of privacy nor am i a big company fear monger. oh ya also who said they are banning ubo?
volsa 3y ago
> Or if you're on macOS, give Arc a try. Tried it and immediately deleted the app again. Seriously, asking users to create an account which isn't skippable is just plain dumb?
- rattray 3y ago
  I disagree with this decision by Arc, and had the same reaction you did, but I just want to note that I'm very glad I gave it another shot months later – it really is a fantastic browser, much better than FF or Chrome.
  - vinay_ys 3y ago
    ..much better in what way?
  - s3p 3y ago
    As someone who hasn't used Arc, can you explain how it's better than FF?
  - flexagoon 3y ago
    I feel like the only actually cool feature of it is the way tabs are organized, but you can get the same thing (even better, actually) by using the Sidebery extension in Firefox. The only difference is that it doesn't look as pretty by default, but both Sidebery and Firefox support custom CSS so you can make it look like Arc if you really need to.
- jsonjason 3y ago
  How about Orion?
- zxt_tzx 3y ago
  I understand why you feel this way, but this seems to be the trend for all the latest generation of "polished" software and I think they do this so they can retain users. (Another example that comes to mind is Warp, the terminal written in Rust.) To be fair, as an Arc user, by logging in, I can keep my tabs synced perfectly across my personal and work laptops, which is worth it for me.
OOPMan 3y ago
Vivaldi is chromium based and they've pledged to do whatever they have to to rollback manifest v3 in their browser.
- NikkiA 3y ago
  As is Brave, Opera and DDG (based on edge). I have said before that I suspect the minor chromium forks such as these will end up having to fork when google does commit fully to manifest v3, as they'll have no way to remain privacy focused if they try to keep using the mainline codebase; if they all work together on a manifest v2 chromium fork for them each to base their browsers on then it probably won't be that hard for them.
tejohnso 3y ago
> First, all Chromium-based browsers will eventually block uBlock Origin for the sole reason that they can't maintain Manifest v2 on their own I haven't found a need for uBlock Origin with Brave's built-in ad blocking. And the effective ad blocking is really the main reason I use Brave. I just disable all the token / wallet nonsense.
Euphorbium 3y ago
Vivaldi is great, am going to stick to it untill I am forced to move to firefox.
Isthatablackgsd 3y ago
I found Edge to be useful for Enterprise/Business environment. My previous job uses Office 365 E3 (and their email server) and entrenched with them for various external services such as MS Authenticator for SSO. It is easier use Edge for SSO since I don't need to keep typing out the complex password for my job. Whenever the password prompt show up in Edge, I click my work email account and it automatically log me in. I have one desktop and one laptop for remote work, it simpler with SharePoint/OneDrive to keep my work data synced between both computer. Edge have their uses in Enterprise/Business setting. For personal use, I rarely use Edge. I only uses them for websites that have an issue with my Firefox with uBO and strict CORS. I avoid Chrome like it is a plague.
- halostatue 3y ago
  I use Edge (on macOS) only for Teams. I use Chrome only for Google Meet & the like. I use Firefox for Zoom and when I encounter a website that misbehaves on Safari (and for a couple of things that I need to use that are wholly separate from the rest of my browsing experience). Otherwise, I use Safari. The original article's assertion that Safari does not respect your privacy is so far from the truth that the rest of the article is questionable.
  - vinay_ys 3y ago
    This!
jklinger410 3y ago
> I keep seeing Edge mentioned as a worthy alternative, and I just don't get it. Bing (now Copilot) acts like a premium version of ChatGPT in Edge. It is context aware, and gives you access to GPT4 (not turbo), for free. Edge is also very tied in with Live services, which if you primarily use those, it gives you the most bang for your buck there. It also has some nifty features that are a mixed bag compared to other browsers, but may be missing from Chrome or Firefox.
kjkjadksj 3y ago
Some of the edge features make no sense. I will use it for xbox cloud gaming and it will tell me there are coupons available for the xbox cloud gaming website (there aren’t, its through game pass a flat monthly rate).

subtra3t 3y ago

I use Vivaldi (and firefox before that) but a reason to use Edge is because it's supposedly very resource-efficient.

bad_user 3y ago
It's the same Chromium, it can't be more resource-efficient. It did have some tricks, but “energy saver” and “memory saver” modes have been added to Chromium.
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago
  It can be more efficent on Windows where Edge is first class passenger similar to how Safari is more efficient on MacOS. Try looking at battery life. You can easily squeeze more juice on Edge than on FF/Chrome.
agentgumshoe 3y ago
What percentage of users actually, really care how marginally more efficient their web browser is these days?
- subtra3t 3y ago
  I'm not saying that many users will care about their browser's performance. I'm just saying that that is a potential reason to use Edge.
- ParetoOptimal 3y ago
  Given that most computers I see have a billion tabs open, I'd guess most of them.

closeparen 3y ago

"Legitimate interest" is a different basis from "consent." It doesn't matter whether you agree to it or not, you aren't empowering anything that wasn't already going to happen.

account42 3y ago
You are empowering them by continuing to use the service/application after they have quite clearly told you that they are going to try to work around the law against your interests.

Beldin 3y ago

> In the EU, when you open Edge for the first time, they ask you to agree to sharing your personal data with the entire advertising industry, via an IAB dialog. I didn't know that. I do know that the GDPR requires user consent to be revocable....

londons_explore 3y ago

> they can't maintain Manifest v2 on their own The code for manifest v2 is really very simple (when you know that functionality for manifest v3 must remain available) - maintenance of it as an unmerged patch would be pretty straightforward. I suspect such a patch could be just 10's of lines of code - you're simply changing the condition list under which a web request can be blocking or not.

aembleton 3y ago
Isn't it about keeping the manifest v2 API running?
- londons_explore 3y ago
  It isn't a server API or anything... It's just some code in chrome, and it has to remain because it's still allowed to be used in Manifest v3 but for a narrower scope of usecases. (Note - I'm specifically talking about the controversial WebRequestBlocking part of the changes - the rest of the manifest v2 to v3 migration is largely just like a python 2>3 migration - there is equivalent functionality for everything).
rekoil 3y ago
I thought the accepted solution was to just add Blocking WebRequest to the Manifest v3 implementation, which should be simpler than maintaining the entire v2 specification.

_cenw 3y ago

People who don't see the problem with Edge must all be domain joined or on Pro for Workstations / Enterprise. Supposedly the browser doesn't annoy "confirmed" business customers as much. I recently switched to the RC Insider ring just to get the EU digital markets update, which lets you uninstall Edge. Because it started doing incredibly creepy stuff. * Keeps asking me every day if I want to keep my new tab extension. No way to set a blank page either. If you don't use an extension, it's "Microsoft Home" (which doesn't even let you properly set your own background, and keeps showing me squids, no thanks). Despite me clicking no every time, it still occasionally disables it. I think there may be a timeout, and then the disabled plugin syncs everywhere. * Asked me if it could shouldersurf my Kagi searches and scrape them to improve Bing. If I was Kagi, I'd think about blocking the Edge user agent. * Upon clicking "no" on the point above, it changed my search engine to Bing. * Edge also has a feature to regularly scrape other Browsers for their history to submit to Microsoft. Given every other Edge feature did not respect my consent in an honestly gaslighting fashion, I don't feel confident any browsing data on a Windows machine is private unless you install the above Release Candidate and set your Region to EU to uninstall Edge. Here's the guide I followed. Just set your region to Ireland or something: https://www.partitionwizard.com/news/uninstall-microsoft-edge-bing.html https://www.partitionwizard.com/news/uninstall-microsoft-edg...

account42 3y ago
> I don't feel confident any browsing data on a Windows machine is private unless you install the above Release Candidate and set your Region to EU to uninstall Edge. You are still coping thinking you can somehow outplay Microsoft. You can't. Stop using software made by obviously hostile entities.
- _cenw 3y ago
  hey, thanks for clicking on my profile to leave a snarky drive-by comment you can stop now
Dah00n 3y ago
>to get the EU digital markets update, which lets you uninstall Edge. Again — as a former anti-EU person — I am reminded why I am now pro-EU. While nowhere perfect it is much better than not having an EU and way, way better than the US.

pyeri 3y ago

I see some hope in Vivaldi. Even though chromium based, I don't see them getting more and more intrusive into your life and machine like the other big tech are doing. Plus it is also open source now[1], so no different than firefox, etc. even in that sense. The other place I see some hope left is the "ungoogled" chromium browser. Though the amount of hooves you need to jump in order to get a stable release (corresponding to official chrome) on a windows or mac is preposterous, you eventually do get a portable, non-intrusive and much kosher version of chrome browser which isn't bad. [1] https://vivaldi.com/source/ https://vivaldi.com/source/

Dah00n 3y ago
The problem with these Chromium based browsers is that this is helping strangle the only real alternative to Chrome. You might not sell your soul to Google, but you still help Google keep their stranglehold on web standards, etc. Of course, a single person is always irrelevant in the big picture, but combined Vivaldi, Brave, etc. are helping strangle Firefox and helping prop up Google's heavy hand on web standards.
- dubcanada 3y ago
  It's Firefoxs fault that Chromium took over, Firefox just had to copy what Google did with Chrome (which is make a version that is easily integrated in other applications). It had years to do so, and did not. I am not blaming Firefox for the rise in Chrome, but I am blaming them for the rise in Chromium. They have a solid alternative and didn't care enough to capitalize on it. Who knows in another timeline with changes it's possible Firefox Gecko rained supreme in the embeddable space. So let's say you're a bunch of ex-Opera employees who want to start a new browser, are you going to write an entire browser engine yourself? No who has time and money to pay hundreds of developers for years just to catch up. You're going to use a off the shelf version and modify it. Can you use Firefox? No, good luck integrating it into anything, it's extremely difficult. Firefox actively suggests not trying to embed it. Can you use Chrome/Chromium? Yes it's easy and readily available SDK that even has thousands of implementation examples. Can you use Webkit? Yes you can, but it's only managed by Apple and a select group of smaller companies, you are at the mercy of Apple. It also has poor support in some areas. So you end up going through pros and cons and Chromium is the result. It's not the result of a bunch of Google loving companies, it's just pure developer economics. It gives you the best possible start.

wkat4242 3y ago

Yeah I don't understand Microsoft trying to push Edge so much and more so, people actually falling for it. They're admitting that they are unable to build a good browser themselves, then they basically rip off chrome and skin it up a bit and we're supposed to think it's amazing?? And then they start adding all this scamware like the "shopping assistant" and "buy now pay later" scams. Google doesn't even go that far and they do most of the work making this browser. I didn't even know it was so difficult to get away from Bing as I only use it at work. I see why business admins love it so much, because it is of course well supported by their management ecosystem. Also, Microsoft lobbied the top brass at companies like crazy to make it the default browser and gain marketshare. Even every call sharing a screen with a MS consultant resulted in "Why are you not on Edge yet??" :( It's like they get paid per conversion or something. Edit: PS I hate both Chrome and Edge for their privacy invasion (as you mentioned) but if I would use either I would use the real thing and not the knockoff.

Dah00n 3y ago
> I would use the real thing and not the knockoff. So you are not a fan of Brave either? A lesser Devil is still a Devil, after all.
- wkat4242 3y ago
  Nope definitely not. Besides it reusing the engine supporting Google's monopoly I also don't like the BAT token concept.

jiki 3y ago

Edge is bloated and spyware for sure, but there're always people who would love to trade privacy for convenience.

runiq 3y ago

None of that is a problem in Firefox.

account42 3y ago
If only that were true. > Then there's the fact that Edge is just Microsoft's spyware, being worse in my book than Google's Chrome. And people forget that Microsoft is also an advertising company. Even if that's not their main revenue source, they also hate your ad-blockers. People forget that Mozilla is also almost exclusively funded by the advertisement industry. They have also experimented with including ads directly in the browser on multiple occasions. Including ones force pushed though a back door (experiments). > And in true Microsoft spirit, it also has telemetry, which you can't turn off. While you can turn of Telemetry in Firefox it is on by default and new channels are being added all the time which are again on by default. Mozilla is controlled opposition with the emphasis being on controlled with opposition being more of a formality.
bad_user 3y ago
Indeed. I wrote that post, and I must say, I currently use Firefox, but I have a love-hate relationship with it. I can list many things I dislike about Firefox, and I understand if people don't like it. But overall, yes, it's a good alternative for most people.

FirmwareBurner 3y ago

>Then there's the fact that Edge is just Microsoft's spyware, being worse in my book than Google's Chrome. Out of curiosity, is there any objective proof that Microsoft-Edge is worse for privacy than Google-Chrome, or is it just a subjective "Google=Good Microsoft=Bad" feeling?

bad_user 3y ago
I already answered your question in the post you're replying to.
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago
  But that wasn't an objective analysis, that's just your highly opinionated opinion with which I found some flaws in, as in you're wrong about several statements. >Google's Chrome does not do this, and searching on google.com only asks for sharing of data with Google itself. You mean sharing your data with Google THE ad-company which then shares your data to advertisers? How is that any more private? >And in true Microsoft spirit, it also has telemetry, which you can't turn off. Same as Chrome on this front. >And Edge is hard-coded to use Bing. No it's not, you can change it. https://www.google.com/homepage/search/sp-edge-p.html https://www.google.com/homepage/search/sp-edge-p.html Nothing wrong with having a strong opininated opinion on a matter, but you can't just sell it as objective facts.
  - tentacleuno 3y ago
    > No it's not, you can change it. Aside from the big blue Bing button in the user-chrome (and the MS sidebar), and the fact that switching your search engine in Edge involves jumping through a surprising amount of hoops, as opposed to Chrom[ium/e]. I haven't counted the number of steps, but it's definitely more than Chromium-based browsers -- they seem to have intentionally buried it in Settings (it's right at the bottom of one of the pages), and you get a ton of "Bing is great!" messaging when you do finally figure out how to switch it. P.S. That demo you linked shows an outdated version of Edge.

devnullbrain 3y ago

>Edge also exposes an advertising ID, meant for Bing's Ads, much like what Chrome does for Google. And in true Microsoft spirit, it also has telemetry, which you can't turn off. Answering the question 'what is the motivation for Microsoft to pay for Edge development?' also answers the question 'why is Edge not an acceptable alternative to Chrome?'

pennybanks 3y ago

well i guess you can say spyware but piece of crap is probably not accurate. i mean its got the most features by far and seemingly has the most resources and manpower being dedicated for development and upgrade. crap is not so accurate. also because a company uses a lot of tracking on their product doesnt make them an AD company lol. but lets not get it twisted every browser is technically spyware thats the business of web browsers... i mean brave is to me the most deceitful. for one a VPN that installs background processes for windows users even if you dont want it. reinstalls on updates. and you know how much brave loves to force those background updaters on you. https://www.ghacks.net/2023/10/18/brave-is-installing-vpn-services-without-user-consent/ https://www.ghacks.net/2023/10/18/brave-is-installing-vpn-se... https://github.com/brave/brave-browser/issues/33726 https://github.com/brave/brave-browser/issues/33726 or how the most popular browser privacy test is run by a brave employee.. hmm guess which browser scores the highest and a favorable testing environment with the settings https://privacytests.org/ https://privacytests.org/ he eventually disclosed his employer in the back area of that website somewhere so thats better i guess. another one is how certain settings on brave search always reverts back on. or just one the send analytics one. if you use search on a different browser not their own. and etc. and firefox is funded in large part by google.. do you really think they dont share information? honestly acting like your browser is superior because no tracking is so silly lol. just use whatever browser you want and tune settings to your liking. harden if you must and move on. is it that much of a hassel? would you rather pay subscription for no tracking? youll never not be tracked by ads on a free model its too much incentive and the internet is too controlled. you know when you use these product you pay with your privacy and ads its honestly a great deal. at least for me and probably most of the users. imagine paying monthly for edge having time limit package tiers, having to buy packs of google searches, websites have a entrance fee if they dont sell products. btw im on thorium on linux i dont have a edge/microsoft bias. nor am i some shill for big companies i tend to use alternatives. but im not a sucker anymore for the illusion of privacy nor am i a big company fear monger. oh ya also who said they are banning ubo?

volsa 3y ago

> Or if you're on macOS, give Arc a try. Tried it and immediately deleted the app again. Seriously, asking users to create an account which isn't skippable is just plain dumb?

rattray 3y ago
I disagree with this decision by Arc, and had the same reaction you did, but I just want to note that I'm very glad I gave it another shot months later – it really is a fantastic browser, much better than FF or Chrome.
- vinay_ys 3y ago
  ..much better in what way?
- s3p 3y ago
  As someone who hasn't used Arc, can you explain how it's better than FF?
- flexagoon 3y ago
  I feel like the only actually cool feature of it is the way tabs are organized, but you can get the same thing (even better, actually) by using the Sidebery extension in Firefox. The only difference is that it doesn't look as pretty by default, but both Sidebery and Firefox support custom CSS so you can make it look like Arc if you really need to.
jsonjason 3y ago
How about Orion?
zxt_tzx 3y ago
I understand why you feel this way, but this seems to be the trend for all the latest generation of "polished" software and I think they do this so they can retain users. (Another example that comes to mind is Warp, the terminal written in Rust.) To be fair, as an Arc user, by logging in, I can keep my tabs synced perfectly across my personal and work laptops, which is worth it for me.

OOPMan 3y ago

Vivaldi is chromium based and they've pledged to do whatever they have to to rollback manifest v3 in their browser.

NikkiA 3y ago
As is Brave, Opera and DDG (based on edge). I have said before that I suspect the minor chromium forks such as these will end up having to fork when google does commit fully to manifest v3, as they'll have no way to remain privacy focused if they try to keep using the mainline codebase; if they all work together on a manifest v2 chromium fork for them each to base their browsers on then it probably won't be that hard for them.

tejohnso 3y ago

> First, all Chromium-based browsers will eventually block uBlock Origin for the sole reason that they can't maintain Manifest v2 on their own I haven't found a need for uBlock Origin with Brave's built-in ad blocking. And the effective ad blocking is really the main reason I use Brave. I just disable all the token / wallet nonsense.

Euphorbium 3y ago

Vivaldi is great, am going to stick to it untill I am forced to move to firefox.

Isthatablackgsd 3y ago

I found Edge to be useful for Enterprise/Business environment. My previous job uses Office 365 E3 (and their email server) and entrenched with them for various external services such as MS Authenticator for SSO. It is easier use Edge for SSO since I don't need to keep typing out the complex password for my job. Whenever the password prompt show up in Edge, I click my work email account and it automatically log me in. I have one desktop and one laptop for remote work, it simpler with SharePoint/OneDrive to keep my work data synced between both computer. Edge have their uses in Enterprise/Business setting. For personal use, I rarely use Edge. I only uses them for websites that have an issue with my Firefox with uBO and strict CORS. I avoid Chrome like it is a plague.

halostatue 3y ago
I use Edge (on macOS) only for Teams. I use Chrome only for Google Meet & the like. I use Firefox for Zoom and when I encounter a website that misbehaves on Safari (and for a couple of things that I need to use that are wholly separate from the rest of my browsing experience). Otherwise, I use Safari. The original article's assertion that Safari does not respect your privacy is so far from the truth that the rest of the article is questionable.
- vinay_ys 3y ago
  This!

jklinger410 3y ago

> I keep seeing Edge mentioned as a worthy alternative, and I just don't get it. Bing (now Copilot) acts like a premium version of ChatGPT in Edge. It is context aware, and gives you access to GPT4 (not turbo), for free. Edge is also very tied in with Live services, which if you primarily use those, it gives you the most bang for your buck there. It also has some nifty features that are a mixed bag compared to other browsers, but may be missing from Chrome or Firefox.

kjkjadksj 3y ago

Some of the edge features make no sense. I will use it for xbox cloud gaming and it will tell me there are coupons available for the xbox cloud gaming website (there aren’t, its through game pass a flat monthly rate).