6 ms·

But now, what are we going to do with systemd?

galcerte 3y ago
Unlike PulseAudio, dbus, and other userland components, it is perfectly possible to have a Linux system which works with most software without systemd. runit and OpenRC are two of the most popular init alternatives, which are just inits, and nothing else, unlike systemd. You might argue you have to use logind and udev, but that has been spun off into elogind and eudev. There is also seatd as an alternative to elogind, which is quite big itself.
Levitating 3y ago
Just use it? I am still confused why systemd is supposedly something that needs to be fixed. Like all major distributions "accidentally" switched to it.
- ratsmack 3y ago
  They all switched because of commercial interests, not because everyone loved it.
  - mrlonglong 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - kaba0 3y ago
      [flagged]
      - mrlonglong 3y ago
        Thank you. I have responded.
  - kaba0 3y ago
    These takes are just ridiculous. Debian, with a more democratic system than any country on Earth, voted twice over the issue, overwhelmingly supporting the support of only systemd. How is that commercial interest? Then arch decided for the same thing independently. I’m sure arch linux is the core interest of every commercial vendor, right? Just accept it, package maintainers had enough of the absolute shitty state of init systems. Systemd solves this very complex problem elegantly, giving some standard userspace can depend on.
    - mrlonglong 3y ago
      That's quite true I'll give you that. But there are still issues with it. It keeps swallowing up bits like resolver and others. It should only do one thing well.
      - kaba0 3y ago
        It only swallows those things up if you consider KDE swallowing up painting programs like Krita. Systemd is both a program, a collection of programs.
        zlg_codes 3y ago
        Systemd adherents cannot seem to get past this deficiency in the software's messaging. Same with Wayland. "it's not a program it's a protocol" Still sucks, still is a thorn in my side and gets in the way. Systemd is an attempt to consolidate the OS/service layer into one thing. Compilation options don't mean shit when every component is tightly coupled to systemd, its journal, dbus, or some other quackery. Systemd would have been better as an entire distro to itself. But as usual, people cannot handle the idea of running anything other than what's shoved in their faces from corporate programmers. If I wanted corporate software I'd buy Apple or Microsoft.
        kaba0 3y ago
        So as usual, we get nothing useful or remotely objective from “systemd-haters”.
  - NekkoDroid 3y ago
    Ah yes, the commercial interest of Arch Linux
  - eternityforest 3y ago
    Seems like the commercial interest was caused by a lot of people loving it. Most hate seems to be from enthusiast/tinkerer types who want to hand maintain highly customized systems. Systemd is great for ople who just want a commodity OS, maintained by pros, and kept stock.
    - funcDropShadow 3y ago
      Actually, systemd is also better for users that want to highly specialize their systems. It is only bad for people who love debugging race-conditions between shell scripts that run very early in their boot process.
  - Levitating 3y ago
    Are you talking about those ridiculous conspiracies[1][2] where systemd is broken by design so companies like RedHat can make more via support? [1]: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=727708#6959 https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=727708#695... [2]: http://ewontfix.com/14/ http://ewontfix.com/14/
mike_hock 3y ago
I don't like its hard dependencies on glibc (specifically, with no support for other libc's) and dbus (I'd've preferred Poettering going full nih and developing his own RPC protocol). Other than that, systemd provides a polished experience, so if you want to displace it you'll have to produce something equally polished and compatible with existing unit files, just as systemd was able to consume ye olde sysv startup scripts. The only other contender that I'm aware of that isn't just one massive design flaw, is openrc, and it's somewhat inferior to systemd.
- calvinmorrison 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - pixel8account 3y ago
    >pooperings Just a side note, but it's hard to take you seriously when you resort to such childish name calling. I think your chance of convicting traders (me included) would be much higher if you used some technical arguments instead.
    - mike_hock 3y ago
      Is there a way I can opt in to seeing flagged comments? I find it quite annoying that I can't see the answer to my comment.
      - pkkm 3y ago
        Try setting showdead in your user profile.
        mike_hock 3y ago
        Thanks. I wasn't brave enough to try that option since I didn't want to be shown as deceased.
opan 3y ago
Check out GNU Shepherd. Default on Guix System.
mrlonglong 3y ago
Put it out of its misery and use OpenRC or something equally as good.

Unlike PulseAudio, dbus, and other userland components, it is perfectly possible to have a Linux system which works with most software without systemd. runit and OpenRC are two of the most popular init alternatives, which are just inits, and nothing else, unlike systemd. You might argue you have to use logind and udev, but that has been spun off into elogind and eudev. There is also seatd as an alternative to elogind, which is quite big itself.

Levitating 3y ago

Just use it? I am still confused why systemd is supposedly something that needs to be fixed. Like all major distributions "accidentally" switched to it.

ratsmack 3y ago
They all switched because of commercial interests, not because everyone loved it.
- mrlonglong 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - kaba0 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - mrlonglong 3y ago
      Thank you. I have responded.
- kaba0 3y ago
  These takes are just ridiculous. Debian, with a more democratic system than any country on Earth, voted twice over the issue, overwhelmingly supporting the support of only systemd. How is that commercial interest? Then arch decided for the same thing independently. I’m sure arch linux is the core interest of every commercial vendor, right? Just accept it, package maintainers had enough of the absolute shitty state of init systems. Systemd solves this very complex problem elegantly, giving some standard userspace can depend on.
  - mrlonglong 3y ago
    That's quite true I'll give you that. But there are still issues with it. It keeps swallowing up bits like resolver and others. It should only do one thing well.
    - kaba0 3y ago
      It only swallows those things up if you consider KDE swallowing up painting programs like Krita. Systemd is both a program, a collection of programs.
      - zlg_codes 3y ago
        Systemd adherents cannot seem to get past this deficiency in the software's messaging. Same with Wayland. "it's not a program it's a protocol" Still sucks, still is a thorn in my side and gets in the way. Systemd is an attempt to consolidate the OS/service layer into one thing. Compilation options don't mean shit when every component is tightly coupled to systemd, its journal, dbus, or some other quackery. Systemd would have been better as an entire distro to itself. But as usual, people cannot handle the idea of running anything other than what's shoved in their faces from corporate programmers. If I wanted corporate software I'd buy Apple or Microsoft.
        kaba0 3y ago
        So as usual, we get nothing useful or remotely objective from “systemd-haters”.
- NekkoDroid 3y ago
  Ah yes, the commercial interest of Arch Linux
- eternityforest 3y ago
  Seems like the commercial interest was caused by a lot of people loving it. Most hate seems to be from enthusiast/tinkerer types who want to hand maintain highly customized systems. Systemd is great for ople who just want a commodity OS, maintained by pros, and kept stock.
  - funcDropShadow 3y ago
    Actually, systemd is also better for users that want to highly specialize their systems. It is only bad for people who love debugging race-conditions between shell scripts that run very early in their boot process.
- Levitating 3y ago
  Are you talking about those ridiculous conspiracies[1][2] where systemd is broken by design so companies like RedHat can make more via support? [1]: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=727708#6959 https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=727708#695... [2]: http://ewontfix.com/14/ http://ewontfix.com/14/

mike_hock 3y ago

I don't like its hard dependencies on glibc (specifically, with no support for other libc's) and dbus (I'd've preferred Poettering going full nih and developing his own RPC protocol). Other than that, systemd provides a polished experience, so if you want to displace it you'll have to produce something equally polished and compatible with existing unit files, just as systemd was able to consume ye olde sysv startup scripts. The only other contender that I'm aware of that isn't just one massive design flaw, is openrc, and it's somewhat inferior to systemd.

calvinmorrison 3y ago
[flagged]
- pixel8account 3y ago
  >pooperings Just a side note, but it's hard to take you seriously when you resort to such childish name calling. I think your chance of convicting traders (me included) would be much higher if you used some technical arguments instead.
  - mike_hock 3y ago
    Is there a way I can opt in to seeing flagged comments? I find it quite annoying that I can't see the answer to my comment.
    - pkkm 3y ago
      Try setting showdead in your user profile.
      - mike_hock 3y ago
        Thanks. I wasn't brave enough to try that option since I didn't want to be shown as deceased.

opan 3y ago

Check out GNU Shepherd. Default on Guix System.

mrlonglong 3y ago

Put it out of its misery and use OpenRC or something equally as good.