5 ms·

Apertus – Open-Source Camera

184 points by kaladin-jasnah 3y ago

Kevcmk 3y ago
With css this bad, I don’t think I’m capable
- jampekka 3y ago
  What's wrong with the CSS? The site seems to be HNed, but as per archive.org the CSS is clearly better than most.
  - rafram 3y ago
    It’s a bit Web 2.0core but functional enough.
    - capableweb 3y ago
      The style might be, but the CSS isn't, seems there is css variables and flex usage, that's not web 2.0.
glyphy177 3y ago
[dead]
throwaway89201 3y ago
Site has been HNed. Github: https://github.com/apertus-open-source-cinema https://github.com/apertus-open-source-cinema
ofrzeta 3y ago
"open source and open hardware cinema camera" that is, so like RED cam or something like it I guess.
- theyinwhy 3y ago
  Red is neither open source nor open hardware.
  - stonogo 3y ago
    I believe the comparison was to the class of camera. I.e. this is more for cinematography than photography
- ensignavenger 3y ago
  I don't think RED is open source, is it?
- hypercube33 3y ago
  Came here expecting a still camera myself ended up disappointed.
RobotToaster 3y ago
It's an interesting project, but €4k for a camera without autofocus doesn't seem attractive.
- luto 3y ago
  Professional cameras often do not have auto focus, compare to some RED camera models. You either prepare your focus points ahead of time or you work in teams, where your camera assistants act as the "auto" focus.
  - rayrrr 3y ago
    Indeed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focus_puller https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focus_puller
  - RobotToaster 3y ago
    That makes sense, I guess I missed that it's a cinecam not a still camera.
- pavlov 3y ago
  If it has a focus ring motor that’s controllable via the API, you could write your own autofocus algorithm.
sottol 3y ago
Problem with any non-mass-produced camera seems currently the availability of image sensors. It seems that the only small-batch available sensors are for machine-vision and accordingly priced :/ The CMV12000 used here costs $2000-$2200 per sensor - more than many full-frame mirrorless cameras. Another problem is that there are no development boards as far as I'm aware. That's why this imo could be huge for anyone else interested in making an open camera, the apertus project seems to have a modular architecture and breakout board for components! That said, the sensor does have a globoal shutter which would be huge for cinema but not sure at what tradeoffs in dynamic range or color-depth eg.
- creer 3y ago
  Are broken full-frame cameras becoming available? Where large sensors might be sourced from? I see quite a few sensors available on ebay. Problem then might be getting specs.
- immmmmm 3y ago
  For a global shutter sensor that big that seems kind of reasonable. Been buying smaller sensors, building multi camera machines, for researching projects and I like that thing. Open hardware, i wish I was doing cinema to buy that thing, gorgeous!
  - dorfsmay 3y ago
    Do you write your software to use the small sensor from scratch or do you build on top of existing libraries?
    - immmmmm 3y ago
      i used MIPI sensors on jetson, and while the drivers were provided by the manufacturer we wrote a a python/c++ library based on V4L2 to acquire images
- logtempo 3y ago
  You're correct, but if a company invest money in this project, just like all big open-source projects, it can work.
wilkomanger 3y ago
Archive: https://web.archive.org/web/20231126141132/https://www.apertus.org/en https://web.archive.org/web/20231126141132/https://www.apert...
evanjrowley 3y ago
Archive Link: https://web.archive.org/web/20231126153221/https://www.apertus.org/en https://web.archive.org/web/20231126153221/https://www.apert...
parimal7 3y ago
Back in 2019, I submitted a GSOC proposal for Apertus. They wanted to add frame serving capability [1] to their RAW image processing software OpenCine [2]. Even though my proposal was rejected, I ended up learning a lot from their coding challenge [3] which was mandatory for submitting a proposal. Reading research papers to understand Demosaicing [4], learning C++ coding guidelines, RAW file format, code reviews and feedback from Andrej and others at Apertus was really fun. At the time I was still a sophomore at college so I asked and made a ton of mistakes. Thanks Andrej [5] and team for being patient with so many of us! :) [1] https://lab.apertus.org/T763 https://lab.apertus.org/T763 [2] https://www.apertus.org/en/opencine https://www.apertus.org/en/opencine [3] https://lab.apertus.org/T872 https://lab.apertus.org/T872 [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demosaicing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demosaicing [5] https://github.com/BAndiT1983 https://github.com/BAndiT1983
photoGrant 3y ago
Just far too expensive. I'm the exact target audience for this thing, it's beyond scope financially. Create a barebones proof of concept kit, but this is a non-starter solution for 70% of the audience interested.
- argiopetech 3y ago
  I assume you're a professional cinematographer/hacker. What would you choose over this?
  - photoGrant 3y ago
    At that budget? A basic nVidia Jetson Board, a fancy mono sensor of choice, a bunch of extra CSI lanes beyond reasonable scope and I'd prefer to enjoy/embrace a software first pipeline/workflow stack for the data akin to gnu-radio-companion. That's where my itch would be. At this budget I'd want to be experimenting in the stitching sensors game. I'd prefer focus there if I'm throwing money away. Otherwise I'd scratch the itch more wisely with a pi stack :(
petabytes 3y ago
Honestly it would make more sense to buy an old $300 Canon camera, install Magic Lantern (or CHDK) Hate to say it, but in my experience open source hardware is always been poor quality, unless it's a single board computer.
- stonogo 3y ago
  This targets a different class of imaging. It is meant to compete with equipment typically used to film movies, which cost significantly more.
  - actionfromafar 3y ago
    Yes, but the Canon 5D has been used for (some) professional movies.
    - t0bia_s 3y ago
      Canon 5D markIII with MagicLantern could produce superb RAW footages. I never graded better source material. Unfortunately, production is huge luck. You cannot preview recorded footages (only BW, low res, low framerate preview). Postproduction require extra step of converting fotages to something more common like ProRes 422. Which is another place for error. TLDR it is not suitable for professional production because of lack of preview on set.
illwrks 3y ago
Check out the CinePi, it's a raspberry pi based camera that's being developed by several people: https://www.raspberrypi.com/news/cinepi-a-high-end-film-camera-built-on-raspberry-pi/ https://www.raspberrypi.com/news/cinepi-a-high-end-film-came...

Kevcmk 3y ago

With css this bad, I don’t think I’m capable

jampekka 3y ago
What's wrong with the CSS? The site seems to be HNed, but as per archive.org the CSS is clearly better than most.
- rafram 3y ago
  It’s a bit Web 2.0core but functional enough.
  - capableweb 3y ago
    The style might be, but the CSS isn't, seems there is css variables and flex usage, that's not web 2.0.

glyphy177 3y ago

[dead]

throwaway89201 3y ago

Site has been HNed. Github: https://github.com/apertus-open-source-cinema https://github.com/apertus-open-source-cinema

ofrzeta 3y ago

"open source and open hardware cinema camera" that is, so like RED cam or something like it I guess.

theyinwhy 3y ago
Red is neither open source nor open hardware.
- stonogo 3y ago
  I believe the comparison was to the class of camera. I.e. this is more for cinematography than photography
ensignavenger 3y ago
I don't think RED is open source, is it?
hypercube33 3y ago
Came here expecting a still camera myself ended up disappointed.

RobotToaster 3y ago

It's an interesting project, but €4k for a camera without autofocus doesn't seem attractive.

luto 3y ago
Professional cameras often do not have auto focus, compare to some RED camera models. You either prepare your focus points ahead of time or you work in teams, where your camera assistants act as the "auto" focus.
- rayrrr 3y ago
  Indeed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focus_puller https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focus_puller
- RobotToaster 3y ago
  That makes sense, I guess I missed that it's a cinecam not a still camera.
pavlov 3y ago
If it has a focus ring motor that’s controllable via the API, you could write your own autofocus algorithm.

sottol 3y ago

Problem with any non-mass-produced camera seems currently the availability of image sensors. It seems that the only small-batch available sensors are for machine-vision and accordingly priced :/ The CMV12000 used here costs $2000-$2200 per sensor - more than many full-frame mirrorless cameras. Another problem is that there are no development boards as far as I'm aware. That's why this imo could be huge for anyone else interested in making an open camera, the apertus project seems to have a modular architecture and breakout board for components! That said, the sensor does have a globoal shutter which would be huge for cinema but not sure at what tradeoffs in dynamic range or color-depth eg.

creer 3y ago
Are broken full-frame cameras becoming available? Where large sensors might be sourced from? I see quite a few sensors available on ebay. Problem then might be getting specs.
immmmmm 3y ago
For a global shutter sensor that big that seems kind of reasonable. Been buying smaller sensors, building multi camera machines, for researching projects and I like that thing. Open hardware, i wish I was doing cinema to buy that thing, gorgeous!
- dorfsmay 3y ago
  Do you write your software to use the small sensor from scratch or do you build on top of existing libraries?
  - immmmmm 3y ago
    i used MIPI sensors on jetson, and while the drivers were provided by the manufacturer we wrote a a python/c++ library based on V4L2 to acquire images
logtempo 3y ago
You're correct, but if a company invest money in this project, just like all big open-source projects, it can work.

wilkomanger 3y ago

Archive: https://web.archive.org/web/20231126141132/https://www.apertus.org/en https://web.archive.org/web/20231126141132/https://www.apert...

evanjrowley 3y ago

Archive Link: https://web.archive.org/web/20231126153221/https://www.apertus.org/en https://web.archive.org/web/20231126153221/https://www.apert...

parimal7 3y ago

Back in 2019, I submitted a GSOC proposal for Apertus. They wanted to add frame serving capability [1] to their RAW image processing software OpenCine [2]. Even though my proposal was rejected, I ended up learning a lot from their coding challenge [3] which was mandatory for submitting a proposal. Reading research papers to understand Demosaicing [4], learning C++ coding guidelines, RAW file format, code reviews and feedback from Andrej and others at Apertus was really fun. At the time I was still a sophomore at college so I asked and made a ton of mistakes. Thanks Andrej [5] and team for being patient with so many of us! :) [1] https://lab.apertus.org/T763 https://lab.apertus.org/T763 [2] https://www.apertus.org/en/opencine https://www.apertus.org/en/opencine [3] https://lab.apertus.org/T872 https://lab.apertus.org/T872 [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demosaicing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demosaicing [5] https://github.com/BAndiT1983 https://github.com/BAndiT1983

photoGrant 3y ago

Just far too expensive. I'm the exact target audience for this thing, it's beyond scope financially. Create a barebones proof of concept kit, but this is a non-starter solution for 70% of the audience interested.

argiopetech 3y ago
I assume you're a professional cinematographer/hacker. What would you choose over this?
- photoGrant 3y ago
  At that budget? A basic nVidia Jetson Board, a fancy mono sensor of choice, a bunch of extra CSI lanes beyond reasonable scope and I'd prefer to enjoy/embrace a software first pipeline/workflow stack for the data akin to gnu-radio-companion. That's where my itch would be. At this budget I'd want to be experimenting in the stitching sensors game. I'd prefer focus there if I'm throwing money away. Otherwise I'd scratch the itch more wisely with a pi stack :(

petabytes 3y ago

Honestly it would make more sense to buy an old $300 Canon camera, install Magic Lantern (or CHDK) Hate to say it, but in my experience open source hardware is always been poor quality, unless it's a single board computer.

stonogo 3y ago
This targets a different class of imaging. It is meant to compete with equipment typically used to film movies, which cost significantly more.
- actionfromafar 3y ago
  Yes, but the Canon 5D has been used for (some) professional movies.
  - t0bia_s 3y ago
    Canon 5D markIII with MagicLantern could produce superb RAW footages. I never graded better source material. Unfortunately, production is huge luck. You cannot preview recorded footages (only BW, low res, low framerate preview). Postproduction require extra step of converting fotages to something more common like ProRes 422. Which is another place for error. TLDR it is not suitable for professional production because of lack of preview on set.

illwrks 3y ago

Check out the CinePi, it's a raspberry pi based camera that's being developed by several people: https://www.raspberrypi.com/news/cinepi-a-high-end-film-camera-built-on-raspberry-pi/ https://www.raspberrypi.com/news/cinepi-a-high-end-film-came...