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I just don't understand what legitimate use a web page has for knowing the device battery level. This feels very much like information harvesting for the sake o

I just don't understand what legitimate use a web page has for knowing the device battery level. This feels very much like information harvesting for the sake of information harvesting.

jakub_g 3y ago
- Whatsapp mobile native app warns the user (and the other party of the call) when your battery level gets very low, to expect the end of the call. One could image similar webapps could do the same. - Warn the user to save their data when the battery level is too low (or automatically save) etc. (Of course, there's is 0.1% of webapps/websites who'd need this).
cantSpellSober 3y ago
Good question, the paper says: > The benign uses of the API were primarily from two third parties: YouTube, where the API was used in performance metrics for embedded videos, and Boomerang, a performance measurement library
- internetter 3y ago
  Both of these don’t strike me as benign
  - cantSpellSober 3y ago
    Why not? Measuring your video player's battery usage could be used to improve its performance. For a performance measurement library, the use is obvious.
    - internetter 3y ago
      Because analytic collection is often ridiculous. The YouTube video player should use the standard video player, but they want to shove all their nonsense on top of it
      - cantSpellSober 3y ago
        regarding the battery API specifically*
      - jakub_g 3y ago
        > should use standard video player You fine with YT downloading all of an hours-long video on mobile and draining your data plan, even if you're paused after a few seconds? Or not being able to jump forward until whole MPEG is downloaded? That's what "standard" HTML video player does. Also tap to move 10 sec forward is nice, isn't it?
- Espressosaurus 3y ago
  Why does Youtube need to know the battery level? Google of all companies has simulators (probably down to the cycle level on their own phones) and will know exactly how much processing power they're using. There's no reason for them to know the battery level for performance metrics. I fail to see it as benign, even if the stated reason is notionally benign.
  - cantSpellSober 3y ago
    Performance in the wild may not correlate to performance in the lab. There's lots of devices out there. > I fail to see it as benign Maybe not entirely benign (which is why it was removed in Webkit and Firefox, and nerfed in Chrome itself).
arbol 3y ago
Determining whether it is reasonable to ask a device to perform a battery intensive operation such as this: https://arxiv.org/abs/1911.07649 https://arxiv.org/abs/1911.07649
- internetter 3y ago
  Why not just ask the user if they are willing for a battery intensive task to be performed? Worst case, api should return 3 states: Draining, Charging, Charging & Full
  - cantSpellSober 3y ago
    Ask them "would you prefer zkSENSE's attestation, or visual CAPTCHAs?" Better to just have optimized applications.
  - arbol 3y ago
    That would be a reasonable UX. But I suppose it goes against the frictionless, non-interactive approach. I do agree that battery levels should not be available to fingerprint. And brave browser blocks the posted site from reading my battery level. So I'm not really sure how the research, which is also from brave, could co-exist with their browser implementation.
unethical_ban 3y ago
It comes down to the idea that web apps could behave more natively, yet most people are not trained to think of websites as hostile by default. I agree with you mostly.
janosdebugs 3y ago
Let's say you are showing something performance intensive like a 3D model. If the user is known to be on battery / low battery, the user could be asked or that feature disabled to save on battery life, allowing the user to reenable it.
ecef9-8c0f-4374 3y ago
This was the time when we all though web was the future of the app. There was Palm's WebOS, Mozillas FirefoxOS. Don't install an App, just visit the website. The website would act like a App. even offline.

I just don't understand what legitimate use a web page has for knowing the device battery level. This feels very much like information harvesting for the sake of information harvesting.

jakub_g 3y ago

- Whatsapp mobile native app warns the user (and the other party of the call) when your battery level gets very low, to expect the end of the call. One could image similar webapps could do the same. - Warn the user to save their data when the battery level is too low (or automatically save) etc. (Of course, there's is 0.1% of webapps/websites who'd need this).

cantSpellSober 3y ago

Good question, the paper says: > The benign uses of the API were primarily from two third parties: YouTube, where the API was used in performance metrics for embedded videos, and Boomerang, a performance measurement library

internetter 3y ago
Both of these don’t strike me as benign
- cantSpellSober 3y ago
  Why not? Measuring your video player's battery usage could be used to improve its performance. For a performance measurement library, the use is obvious.
  - internetter 3y ago
    Because analytic collection is often ridiculous. The YouTube video player should use the standard video player, but they want to shove all their nonsense on top of it
    - cantSpellSober 3y ago
      regarding the battery API specifically*
    - jakub_g 3y ago
      > should use standard video player You fine with YT downloading all of an hours-long video on mobile and draining your data plan, even if you're paused after a few seconds? Or not being able to jump forward until whole MPEG is downloaded? That's what "standard" HTML video player does. Also tap to move 10 sec forward is nice, isn't it?
Espressosaurus 3y ago
Why does Youtube need to know the battery level? Google of all companies has simulators (probably down to the cycle level on their own phones) and will know exactly how much processing power they're using. There's no reason for them to know the battery level for performance metrics. I fail to see it as benign, even if the stated reason is notionally benign.
- cantSpellSober 3y ago
  Performance in the wild may not correlate to performance in the lab. There's lots of devices out there. > I fail to see it as benign Maybe not entirely benign (which is why it was removed in Webkit and Firefox, and nerfed in Chrome itself).

arbol 3y ago

Determining whether it is reasonable to ask a device to perform a battery intensive operation such as this: https://arxiv.org/abs/1911.07649 https://arxiv.org/abs/1911.07649

internetter 3y ago
Why not just ask the user if they are willing for a battery intensive task to be performed? Worst case, api should return 3 states: Draining, Charging, Charging & Full
- cantSpellSober 3y ago
  Ask them "would you prefer zkSENSE's attestation, or visual CAPTCHAs?" Better to just have optimized applications.
- arbol 3y ago
  That would be a reasonable UX. But I suppose it goes against the frictionless, non-interactive approach. I do agree that battery levels should not be available to fingerprint. And brave browser blocks the posted site from reading my battery level. So I'm not really sure how the research, which is also from brave, could co-exist with their browser implementation.

unethical_ban 3y ago

It comes down to the idea that web apps could behave more natively, yet most people are not trained to think of websites as hostile by default. I agree with you mostly.

janosdebugs 3y ago

Let's say you are showing something performance intensive like a 3D model. If the user is known to be on battery / low battery, the user could be asked or that feature disabled to save on battery life, allowing the user to reenable it.

ecef9-8c0f-4374 3y ago

This was the time when we all though web was the future of the app. There was Palm's WebOS, Mozillas FirefoxOS. Don't install an App, just visit the website. The website would act like a App. even offline.