5 ms·

For historical context, check this paper: https://ceur-ws.org/Vol-1873/IWPE17_paper_18.pdf https://ceur-ws.org/Vol-1873/IWPE17_paper_18.pdf (page 3 has timeline

For historical context, check this paper: https://ceur-ws.org/Vol-1873/IWPE17_paper_18.pdf https://ceur-ws.org/Vol-1873/IWPE17_paper_18.pdf (page 3 has timeline of events). The API was implemented in Firefox, Safari, Chrome but it returned too precise data, so by reading battery status on two different pages and seeing the same very precise value, it was like having a tracking cookie. Firefox and Safari decided to pull the API altogether. An obvious fix while keeping the API would be to make the data less precise, i.e. round to nearest 10% or so. Still there's potential to abuse, and around the time there were news from Uber study that people with low battery could pay more for taxi, which was the nail to the coffin. Since then, there was quite a change in how new web APIs are shipped, they all come through privacy design review. Which went a bit ridiculous into the other extreme, like detecting if user uses dark mode reveals a whole one bit of information (darkmode = true | false) so it's not sent automatically, you need to ask for this info via a specific header, which means you can't know that on the first visit of the user on the website (and not on the first visit in incognito mode), only on subsequent visits. Duh. Chromium still supports the Battery API, with some rounding implemented. Note: Google's goal is to basically have all kinds of native APIs available on the web, to make the web rival with native apps, so they are very unlikely to remove things from the web in Chromium.

ta1243 3y ago
> news from Uber study that people with low battery could pay more for taxi, which was the nail to the coffin. Yet people still claim "I have nothing to hide" when it comes to concerns about privacy. When your battery level can be weaponised against you by multi-billion dollar companies, everything can be.
- charcircuit 3y ago
  People still would have to agree to the price. If it is too high they will not accept. By having more information Uber would be able to make better offers. Hiding information for financial gain, getting a better deal, is fraud.
  - whstl 3y ago
    > "People still would have to agree to the price. If it is too high they will not accept" Such bullshit. If I have to go somewhere and my battery is about to die, I don't really have much of a choice. > "Hiding information for financial gain, getting a better deal, is fraud." Doesn't this goes both ways? "Hiding information" is precisely what Uber is doing, when they don't transparently disclose 100% of the information used to determine price with a customer. And no, not disclosing whether I have good battery percentage or not is not "hiding information", except in the most uncharitable interpretation possible. Uber doesn't have the right to know everything about me just because they're potentially providing a service.
    - charcircuit 3y ago
      >I don't really have much of a choice. You can walk, bike, find somewhere to charge your phone, call a friend, use another ride sharing app, use a car you own, etc. >Doesn't this goes both ways? I do not believe hiding the algolithm to arrive at a price is fraud. Most business are not transparent why the things they sell cost what they do. It is up to buyers to evaluate whether they value the good or service more than the money they have. >Uber doesn't have the right to know everything about me just because they're potentially providing a service. I agree, but when submitting information to them shouldn't be tampered with to get a better deal. There is a difference between just using a privacy feature that always reports your battery to be 100%, and using that feature to deliberately get a better deal from Uber. Not providing information is fine, but the intent behind not giving away the information should not be to get a better deal.
      - whstl 3y ago
        > "You can walk, bike, find somewhere to charge your phone, call a friend, use another ride sharing app, use a car you own, etc" "Another ride sharing app" without battery? If you're without battery this is the exact point where you won't be doing price comparison. This is malicious as fuck. The rest of those are not available during emergencies where people are far away, without transportation and with low battery. If Uber is really doing it, it clearly is doing that to force people to pay more during those kinds of emergencies, and if they're doing it is because they have data on it. > "I do not believe hiding the algolithm to arrive at a price is fraud." I never said anything about an algorithm, I said about collecting data. If Uber is not being transparent about the data it collects during the process of calling a ride, it is spying on me. Period. "I agree, but when submitting information to them shouldn't be tampered with to get a better deal." Who is "submitting information"? Uber spying on a customer is not "submitting information. How long until computer people understand that the existence of an API is not a permission for billion-dollar companies to spy on users and use that to fuck customers?
Espressosaurus 3y ago
I just don't understand what legitimate use a web page has for knowing the device battery level. This feels very much like information harvesting for the sake of information harvesting.
- jakub_g 3y ago
  - Whatsapp mobile native app warns the user (and the other party of the call) when your battery level gets very low, to expect the end of the call. One could image similar webapps could do the same. - Warn the user to save their data when the battery level is too low (or automatically save) etc. (Of course, there's is 0.1% of webapps/websites who'd need this).
- cantSpellSober 3y ago
  Good question, the paper says: > The benign uses of the API were primarily from two third parties: YouTube, where the API was used in performance metrics for embedded videos, and Boomerang, a performance measurement library
  - internetter 3y ago
    Both of these don’t strike me as benign
    - cantSpellSober 3y ago
      Why not? Measuring your video player's battery usage could be used to improve its performance. For a performance measurement library, the use is obvious.
      - internetter 3y ago
        Because analytic collection is often ridiculous. The YouTube video player should use the standard video player, but they want to shove all their nonsense on top of it

ta1243 3y ago

> news from Uber study that people with low battery could pay more for taxi, which was the nail to the coffin. Yet people still claim "I have nothing to hide" when it comes to concerns about privacy. When your battery level can be weaponised against you by multi-billion dollar companies, everything can be.

charcircuit 3y ago
People still would have to agree to the price. If it is too high they will not accept. By having more information Uber would be able to make better offers. Hiding information for financial gain, getting a better deal, is fraud.
- whstl 3y ago
  > "People still would have to agree to the price. If it is too high they will not accept" Such bullshit. If I have to go somewhere and my battery is about to die, I don't really have much of a choice. > "Hiding information for financial gain, getting a better deal, is fraud." Doesn't this goes both ways? "Hiding information" is precisely what Uber is doing, when they don't transparently disclose 100% of the information used to determine price with a customer. And no, not disclosing whether I have good battery percentage or not is not "hiding information", except in the most uncharitable interpretation possible. Uber doesn't have the right to know everything about me just because they're potentially providing a service.
  - charcircuit 3y ago
    >I don't really have much of a choice. You can walk, bike, find somewhere to charge your phone, call a friend, use another ride sharing app, use a car you own, etc. >Doesn't this goes both ways? I do not believe hiding the algolithm to arrive at a price is fraud. Most business are not transparent why the things they sell cost what they do. It is up to buyers to evaluate whether they value the good or service more than the money they have. >Uber doesn't have the right to know everything about me just because they're potentially providing a service. I agree, but when submitting information to them shouldn't be tampered with to get a better deal. There is a difference between just using a privacy feature that always reports your battery to be 100%, and using that feature to deliberately get a better deal from Uber. Not providing information is fine, but the intent behind not giving away the information should not be to get a better deal.
    - whstl 3y ago
      > "You can walk, bike, find somewhere to charge your phone, call a friend, use another ride sharing app, use a car you own, etc" "Another ride sharing app" without battery? If you're without battery this is the exact point where you won't be doing price comparison. This is malicious as fuck. The rest of those are not available during emergencies where people are far away, without transportation and with low battery. If Uber is really doing it, it clearly is doing that to force people to pay more during those kinds of emergencies, and if they're doing it is because they have data on it. > "I do not believe hiding the algolithm to arrive at a price is fraud." I never said anything about an algorithm, I said about collecting data. If Uber is not being transparent about the data it collects during the process of calling a ride, it is spying on me. Period. "I agree, but when submitting information to them shouldn't be tampered with to get a better deal." Who is "submitting information"? Uber spying on a customer is not "submitting information. How long until computer people understand that the existence of an API is not a permission for billion-dollar companies to spy on users and use that to fuck customers?

Espressosaurus 3y ago

I just don't understand what legitimate use a web page has for knowing the device battery level. This feels very much like information harvesting for the sake of information harvesting.

jakub_g 3y ago
- Whatsapp mobile native app warns the user (and the other party of the call) when your battery level gets very low, to expect the end of the call. One could image similar webapps could do the same. - Warn the user to save their data when the battery level is too low (or automatically save) etc. (Of course, there's is 0.1% of webapps/websites who'd need this).
cantSpellSober 3y ago
Good question, the paper says: > The benign uses of the API were primarily from two third parties: YouTube, where the API was used in performance metrics for embedded videos, and Boomerang, a performance measurement library
- internetter 3y ago
  Both of these don’t strike me as benign
  - cantSpellSober 3y ago
    Why not? Measuring your video player's battery usage could be used to improve its performance. For a performance measurement library, the use is obvious.
    - internetter 3y ago
      Because analytic collection is often ridiculous. The YouTube video player should use the standard video player, but they want to shove all their nonsense on top of it