4 ms·

A thought that came to me recently in the shower: Isn't all knowledge effectively based on previous knowledge, and by extension, experience? i.e: A programmer

by winocm 3y ago

A thought that came to me recently in the shower: Isn't all knowledge effectively based on previous knowledge, and by extension, experience? i.e: A programmer knows how to do X, leaves a company to do Y, where Y is in the same field of work as X. Doesn't X still affect the programmer on a subconscious level and henceforth, their thoughts indirectly?

jfim 3y ago
You can bring your expertise in X without the source code that does X. The former is legal, the latter is not.
FirmwareBurner 3y ago
Bringing knowledge is one thing, which is legal, but stealing source code and design files from your employer to copy it to the systems of their competitor where you now work is a completely different thing which is illegal. Companies want your knowledge, not you bringing proprietary IP from their competitor to work, as they know that's a very expensive lawsuit waiting to happen.
- wombatpm 3y ago
  But what if I have an idemic memory?
  - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
    Then you'd be able to draw and type out everything from scratch directly on your employer's PC and not have to download it via USB drives or email, like this guy did.
    - chii 3y ago
      So if you obtained an idemic memory via installing a camera, flash drive and io ports into your brain? How or why is the mere transport method of information the distinction between infringement of IP vs not?
      - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
        Probably because very few people have idetic memory to store 6GB of data in their brains with the utmost fidelity and unless you can also install a printer to your brain, it would take you a long time to reproduce 6GB of data by hand from your brain. Transport method it is because it means there's hard proof and a paper trail of the IP theft that you can prove in court. Memorizing something has no paper trail and also leads to a clean room deisgn. That's why companies want to hire people or entire teams, to do clean room deign, without any of the original data. If I go watch a movie and then tell people what I saw it's fine. If I record the movie with a camera and show it on screen that's the IP theft.
  - unethical_ban 3y ago
    Then congratulations, you're able to ~~excel~~ exfil more data. We live in an imperfect world and solve problems as best we can.
  - anonymouskimmer 3y ago
    Then copyright comes in to play. You should have been taught how to avoid plagiarism in school. Use those techniques to reimplement. These techniques involve more than just using synonyms and rephrasing.
  - themoonisachees 3y ago
    Idemic or "photographic" memory as depicted in popular culture does not exist. most of the people who can remember a lot of information very quickly are actually on some level of deliberately using mnemotechnique methods, such as nursery ryhming (like that one released soldier in vietnam) or graph traversal. it's preposterous to assume that anyone could recite fragmented data such as source code simply by being exposed to it (ie not by purposefully memorizing it)
  - hobs 3y ago
    Then it's fine in the United States at least - all the laws are about copying data/files/assets not about using your mind.
kmeisthax 3y ago
This is the "inevitable disclosure" argument - AKA the idea that the experience is the secret, and thus nobody should ever be allowed to switch employers ever again. For various reasons (notably, the fact that slavery is illegal), we don't accept this in general. You have to show that secrets were copied in full. Employees cannot memorize millions of lines of source, they can only memorize vague architectural details that would be easily reverse engineered by competitors. If you want to own those vague details, get a patent, or shut up.
- throwaway914 3y ago
  In theory, one can memorize a great deal.. I do agree with you, though.
  - whatshisface 3y ago
    Memorizing a sizable fraction of Windows source code so you can take it to Apple sounds like the most pointless and difficult heist imaginable!
    - zer00eyz 3y ago
      This sounds like the plot to a Netflix movie...
      - juunpp 3y ago
        https://wiki.winehq.org/Developer_FAQ#Who_can.27t_contribute_to_Wine.3F https://wiki.winehq.org/Developer_FAQ#Who_can.27t_contribute... Wine does not allow people who have worked on Windows to contribute precisely for this reason, with some nuances as noted in the link above.
      - jzombie 3y ago
        "Windowed Gardens: The Source Code Heist" featuring Rainman
- denton-scratch 3y ago
SoftTalker 3y ago
This is why companies want employees to sign noncompete agreements (in jurisdictions where they are not illegal).

by winocm 3y ago

jfim 3y ago

You can bring your expertise in X without the source code that does X. The former is legal, the latter is not.

FirmwareBurner 3y ago

Bringing knowledge is one thing, which is legal, but stealing source code and design files from your employer to copy it to the systems of their competitor where you now work is a completely different thing which is illegal. Companies want your knowledge, not you bringing proprietary IP from their competitor to work, as they know that's a very expensive lawsuit waiting to happen.

wombatpm 3y ago
But what if I have an idemic memory?
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago
  Then you'd be able to draw and type out everything from scratch directly on your employer's PC and not have to download it via USB drives or email, like this guy did.
  - chii 3y ago
    So if you obtained an idemic memory via installing a camera, flash drive and io ports into your brain? How or why is the mere transport method of information the distinction between infringement of IP vs not?
    - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
      Probably because very few people have idetic memory to store 6GB of data in their brains with the utmost fidelity and unless you can also install a printer to your brain, it would take you a long time to reproduce 6GB of data by hand from your brain. Transport method it is because it means there's hard proof and a paper trail of the IP theft that you can prove in court. Memorizing something has no paper trail and also leads to a clean room deisgn. That's why companies want to hire people or entire teams, to do clean room deign, without any of the original data. If I go watch a movie and then tell people what I saw it's fine. If I record the movie with a camera and show it on screen that's the IP theft.
- unethical_ban 3y ago
  Then congratulations, you're able to ~~excel~~ exfil more data. We live in an imperfect world and solve problems as best we can.
- anonymouskimmer 3y ago
  Then copyright comes in to play. You should have been taught how to avoid plagiarism in school. Use those techniques to reimplement. These techniques involve more than just using synonyms and rephrasing.
- themoonisachees 3y ago
  Idemic or "photographic" memory as depicted in popular culture does not exist. most of the people who can remember a lot of information very quickly are actually on some level of deliberately using mnemotechnique methods, such as nursery ryhming (like that one released soldier in vietnam) or graph traversal. it's preposterous to assume that anyone could recite fragmented data such as source code simply by being exposed to it (ie not by purposefully memorizing it)
- hobs 3y ago
  Then it's fine in the United States at least - all the laws are about copying data/files/assets not about using your mind.

kmeisthax 3y ago

This is the "inevitable disclosure" argument - AKA the idea that the experience is the secret, and thus nobody should ever be allowed to switch employers ever again. For various reasons (notably, the fact that slavery is illegal), we don't accept this in general. You have to show that secrets were copied in full. Employees cannot memorize millions of lines of source, they can only memorize vague architectural details that would be easily reverse engineered by competitors. If you want to own those vague details, get a patent, or shut up.

throwaway914 3y ago
In theory, one can memorize a great deal.. I do agree with you, though.
- whatshisface 3y ago
  Memorizing a sizable fraction of Windows source code so you can take it to Apple sounds like the most pointless and difficult heist imaginable!
  - zer00eyz 3y ago
    This sounds like the plot to a Netflix movie...
    - juunpp 3y ago
      https://wiki.winehq.org/Developer_FAQ#Who_can.27t_contribute_to_Wine.3F https://wiki.winehq.org/Developer_FAQ#Who_can.27t_contribute... Wine does not allow people who have worked on Windows to contribute precisely for this reason, with some nuances as noted in the link above.
    - jzombie 3y ago
      "Windowed Gardens: The Source Code Heist" featuring Rainman
denton-scratch 3y ago

SoftTalker 3y ago

This is why companies want employees to sign noncompete agreements (in jurisdictions where they are not illegal).