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Hmm there was this a couple of weeks ago: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1397300529/railsapp?ref=live http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1397300529/railsa

by CWIZO 15y ago

Hmm there was this a couple of weeks ago: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1397300529/railsapp?ref=live http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1397300529/railsapp?ref=... I guess you don't need $44,219 to make "rails simple again".

ivanbernat 15y ago
Came here to say the same thing!
1123581321 15y ago
I think you need the money to get past "This software is not ready! I'm still working out some major problems."
- oscardelben 15y ago
  No I'll need time for that. This is just 4 hours of work. I posted it now because I'll need help from the community as it evolves (especially testing)
tptacek 15y ago
What a stupid comment. $44,000 is ~2/5ths of a Sr. Rails Dev's salary. If Engine Yard, Github, Joyent or Force/Heroku announced that they were going to furlough one of their senior devs to work for 5 months on the best possible OS X Rails installer, we'd be cheering them on. But Yehuda Katz has the temerity to suggest that working directly for his end-users might be a good way to accomplish the same goal, and for that, earns snarky bullshit like this.
- CWIZO 15y ago
  I was just pointing out that there is someone who wanted $25k upfront and here we have someone who will do the work for free. That's all, just context. And since you mentioned it, $44k is a two full years salary where I live, so excuse me if I think that's a bit much for a installer script. Other than that, I have no interest in this since I'm not a RoR developer nor am I planning on becoming one. Like I said, I just wanted to provide context.
  - tptacek 15y ago
    5 months is a short waterfall dev cycle. Allocating one dev to "best possible OSX support for our dev platform" is a totally reasonable thing to slot into a cycle. But since you don't know what you're talking about, I'm left wondering why you bothered to comment on this thread. What context could you possibly have to offer? The level of irrational behavior dollar signs generate on HN is baffling.
    - CWIZO 15y ago
      Sorry I really have nothing to say to you since you apparently have some false assumptions about me and ignore what I write and I can't have a conversation that way.
      - bmelton 15y ago
        There may or may not have been someone willing to do it for free, but that doesn't invalidate the effort Yehuda is willing to put in, or the price he has attached to it. Once upon a time, my neighbor brought me a cake that they had made. It was fantastic. They weren't a professional baker, but could likely have sold the recipe to that cake, as I enjoyed it immensely. Does this now mean that all other cakes aren't worth it? If I go to the grocery store, can I just walk out with a cake because "someone else is willing to do it for free"? Obviously, the answer is that I can't. You're perfectly welcome to think whatever snide things you like about wycats, but it seems like kind of a douchey thing to do unless you were personally willing to provide Rails.app. oscardelben is. Perhaps it's to make a name for himself? Perhaps it's because he believes it should be done? Perhaps it's because he believes that wycats shouldn't be charging money for it? Who knows? It's awesome that he's doing it, and it makes him look like a big giant hero. He deserves every kudo that comes his way -- but that doesn't mean, for one second, that wycats shouldn't be able to accept money people are willing to give for a task he can perform very well. wycats is a proven developer, and doesn't need any reputation. (Not saying that oscar isn't -- I don't generally follow Rails development that closely. Apologies if he's the Linus Torvalds of Rails or something.) And at the risk of sounding like a tool, we should probably point out that oscardelben's project isn't finished, and is described, in the Readme as "Not ready". It might take him a few months to get it perfect.
- atomical 15y ago
  Where is the proof that rails is hard to install and needs 5 months of work? Maybe more documentation is needed on best practices but 5 months of work for a specialized installer? No thanks.
  - tptacek 15y ago
    Where's the proof that Rails has achieved the platonic ideal of OS X support for a dev platform? What, not arguing that at all? Then why is it hard to understand how 5 months of Katz's time could be well spent there?
    - atomical 15y ago
      It's hard to understand because none of the tools the typical developer works with are ideal. But trying to make something perfect that already works well? It's a waste of developer time.
      - ericd 15y ago
        It doesn't work well, and many people spend a day or more setting it up correctly on OS X (there was one commenter in the thread announcing his project that said that he had spent 3 days getting it working right). That's the point. I can see many ways he could spend 5 months making this great and configurable setup utility, and since so many people will use it if it's good, it's worth one person spending a long time on it. It will probably save 40k of value in terms of time for the world within the first day of its release, and after that, it will keep on giving.
  - egypturnash 15y ago
    Here's some anecdotal evidence. I spent a day recently trying to install Rails on my Air. I fiddled with it once back when Locomotive worked. I was expecting a nice clean drag-n-drop like that or MAMP. Instead I wasted half the day with broken Locomotive, then spent the rest of the day installing the dev tools (which space I can ill spare on my Air) and getting it running. I lost all desire to actually fuck wih it during that time. Now I want to nuke it because something's eating up all my free space and it started a little after I installed ROR. And I have no fucking idea where to start aside from just flushing the machine and restoring apps/data from backup. So that's one piece of any data from a frustrated artist/occasional hobby coder who really never wants to touch the command line in her life. This is what it's like for a noob: scary, frustrating, and confusing.
VeejayRampay 15y ago
Way to completely miss the point. We'll have a good laugh when we compare the two projects in the end. What Yehuda is coming up with will be WAY more than a simple installer. Maybe you should read his description of the Kickstarter project before you make up your mind.
bradleyland 15y ago
I'm sorry, but what an asinine comment. This is a "Rails installer" app. This is completely different than the project you linked to on Kickstarter. You're receiving a negative reaction here because you made a disingenuous comparison. If you honestly can't see the differences, then you have no place in the discussion. You are, of course, welcome to your opinion, but do not be surprised when others answer in kind.

by CWIZO 15y ago

ivanbernat 15y ago

Came here to say the same thing!

1123581321 15y ago

I think you need the money to get past "This software is not ready! I'm still working out some major problems."

oscardelben 15y ago
No I'll need time for that. This is just 4 hours of work. I posted it now because I'll need help from the community as it evolves (especially testing)

tptacek 15y ago

What a stupid comment. $44,000 is ~2/5ths of a Sr. Rails Dev's salary. If Engine Yard, Github, Joyent or Force/Heroku announced that they were going to furlough one of their senior devs to work for 5 months on the best possible OS X Rails installer, we'd be cheering them on. But Yehuda Katz has the temerity to suggest that working directly for his end-users might be a good way to accomplish the same goal, and for that, earns snarky bullshit like this.

CWIZO 15y ago
I was just pointing out that there is someone who wanted $25k upfront and here we have someone who will do the work for free. That's all, just context. And since you mentioned it, $44k is a two full years salary where I live, so excuse me if I think that's a bit much for a installer script. Other than that, I have no interest in this since I'm not a RoR developer nor am I planning on becoming one. Like I said, I just wanted to provide context.
- tptacek 15y ago
  5 months is a short waterfall dev cycle. Allocating one dev to "best possible OSX support for our dev platform" is a totally reasonable thing to slot into a cycle. But since you don't know what you're talking about, I'm left wondering why you bothered to comment on this thread. What context could you possibly have to offer? The level of irrational behavior dollar signs generate on HN is baffling.
  - CWIZO 15y ago
    Sorry I really have nothing to say to you since you apparently have some false assumptions about me and ignore what I write and I can't have a conversation that way.
    - bmelton 15y ago
      There may or may not have been someone willing to do it for free, but that doesn't invalidate the effort Yehuda is willing to put in, or the price he has attached to it. Once upon a time, my neighbor brought me a cake that they had made. It was fantastic. They weren't a professional baker, but could likely have sold the recipe to that cake, as I enjoyed it immensely. Does this now mean that all other cakes aren't worth it? If I go to the grocery store, can I just walk out with a cake because "someone else is willing to do it for free"? Obviously, the answer is that I can't. You're perfectly welcome to think whatever snide things you like about wycats, but it seems like kind of a douchey thing to do unless you were personally willing to provide Rails.app. oscardelben is. Perhaps it's to make a name for himself? Perhaps it's because he believes it should be done? Perhaps it's because he believes that wycats shouldn't be charging money for it? Who knows? It's awesome that he's doing it, and it makes him look like a big giant hero. He deserves every kudo that comes his way -- but that doesn't mean, for one second, that wycats shouldn't be able to accept money people are willing to give for a task he can perform very well. wycats is a proven developer, and doesn't need any reputation. (Not saying that oscar isn't -- I don't generally follow Rails development that closely. Apologies if he's the Linus Torvalds of Rails or something.) And at the risk of sounding like a tool, we should probably point out that oscardelben's project isn't finished, and is described, in the Readme as "Not ready". It might take him a few months to get it perfect.
atomical 15y ago
Where is the proof that rails is hard to install and needs 5 months of work? Maybe more documentation is needed on best practices but 5 months of work for a specialized installer? No thanks.
- tptacek 15y ago
  Where's the proof that Rails has achieved the platonic ideal of OS X support for a dev platform? What, not arguing that at all? Then why is it hard to understand how 5 months of Katz's time could be well spent there?
  - atomical 15y ago
    It's hard to understand because none of the tools the typical developer works with are ideal. But trying to make something perfect that already works well? It's a waste of developer time.
    - ericd 15y ago
      It doesn't work well, and many people spend a day or more setting it up correctly on OS X (there was one commenter in the thread announcing his project that said that he had spent 3 days getting it working right). That's the point. I can see many ways he could spend 5 months making this great and configurable setup utility, and since so many people will use it if it's good, it's worth one person spending a long time on it. It will probably save 40k of value in terms of time for the world within the first day of its release, and after that, it will keep on giving.
- egypturnash 15y ago
  Here's some anecdotal evidence. I spent a day recently trying to install Rails on my Air. I fiddled with it once back when Locomotive worked. I was expecting a nice clean drag-n-drop like that or MAMP. Instead I wasted half the day with broken Locomotive, then spent the rest of the day installing the dev tools (which space I can ill spare on my Air) and getting it running. I lost all desire to actually fuck wih it during that time. Now I want to nuke it because something's eating up all my free space and it started a little after I installed ROR. And I have no fucking idea where to start aside from just flushing the machine and restoring apps/data from backup. So that's one piece of any data from a frustrated artist/occasional hobby coder who really never wants to touch the command line in her life. This is what it's like for a noob: scary, frustrating, and confusing.

VeejayRampay 15y ago

Way to completely miss the point. We'll have a good laugh when we compare the two projects in the end. What Yehuda is coming up with will be WAY more than a simple installer. Maybe you should read his description of the Kickstarter project before you make up your mind.

bradleyland 15y ago

I'm sorry, but what an asinine comment. This is a "Rails installer" app. This is completely different than the project you linked to on Kickstarter. You're receiving a negative reaction here because you made a disingenuous comparison. If you honestly can't see the differences, then you have no place in the discussion. You are, of course, welcome to your opinion, but do not be surprised when others answer in kind.