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> However, there's a tendency to undervalue PHP-based applications I don't think there's that. In every thread about PHP, many people come in to explain this (

by berkes 3y ago

> However, there's a tendency to undervalue PHP-based applications I don't think there's that. In every thread about PHP, many people come in to explain this (edit: this = how good PHP is for use-case X, or how good it is holding up). Every time. "We" all know PHP has its very well-fitting sweet spot. Its use-cases where it shines. I do think, though, that the list of use-cases and the size of the sweet spot is not as big as the usage of PHP makes it out to be. What I mean is: there are many situations in which PHP is the best solution. But in many places where PHP is employed, it is not the best solution (anymore).

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oddevan 3y ago
Being someone who spent a lot of time in the WordPress space and is building a pretty complex PHP app now, I think I see the whole movement of "server-side React" as a subset of developers doing everything they can to not learn PHP. I think I'd have more grace for them if they also didn't have multiple frameworks to not learn CSS. I know it's petty and I'm painting with a broad brush, but it can feel frustrating when so much of parts of web culture insist on using the same hammer instead of exploring the toolbox. EDIT: All that to say, I get it, and for my part I'll try to tone it down. Thanks for listening to this old(er) guy rant.
- jimbokun 3y ago
  Yes, I think there's a weakness, maybe especially with younger developers, to keep all development in just one language. A current example for me is SQL vs ORMs. I feel like I'm more productive building SQL queries in my application (ideally using a query builder API), than using an ORM. Because SQL was created to be a language for manipulating relational data, and thus does the job better than the indirection introduced by an ORM framework.
- tambourine_man 3y ago
  I completely agree. Specially when that hammer is a lot more complex and heavier than it needed to be.

by berkes 3y ago

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oddevan 3y ago

Being someone who spent a lot of time in the WordPress space and is building a pretty complex PHP app now, I think I see the whole movement of "server-side React" as a subset of developers doing everything they can to not learn PHP. I think I'd have more grace for them if they also didn't have multiple frameworks to not learn CSS. I know it's petty and I'm painting with a broad brush, but it can feel frustrating when so much of parts of web culture insist on using the same hammer instead of exploring the toolbox. EDIT: All that to say, I get it, and for my part I'll try to tone it down. Thanks for listening to this old(er) guy rant.

jimbokun 3y ago
Yes, I think there's a weakness, maybe especially with younger developers, to keep all development in just one language. A current example for me is SQL vs ORMs. I feel like I'm more productive building SQL queries in my application (ideally using a query builder API), than using an ORM. Because SQL was created to be a language for manipulating relational data, and thus does the job better than the indirection introduced by an ORM framework.
tambourine_man 3y ago
I completely agree. Specially when that hammer is a lot more complex and heavier than it needed to be.