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I think it just boils down to your dev pool. If you already have Java devs, why bother establishing PHP as a new language in your company? Certainly, you can't

I think it just boils down to your dev pool. If you already have Java devs, why bother establishing PHP as a new language in your company? Certainly, you can't justify paying them less than your Java devs... Let's face it, a major advantage of PHP nobody talks about is that devs are cheaper. I don't mean this all in a bad way, I have seen PHP used in high quality code-bases for websites of medium sized companies. But you are limited to input/output operations. However, there is also an advantage to this, as the PHP devs I have seen are more prone to trying out new tools and not reinvent the wheel in source code. Also, I want to shout out to the guys making Sulu CRM. Loved working with it, too bad it's PHP and symfony only.

sshine 3y ago
> the PHP devs I have seen are more prone to [...] not reinvent the wheel in source code* I have the opposite experience: Because PHP and package management is relatively new (Composer is from 2012, compared to CPAN's general availability in 1995), I haven't seen more wheel-reinventing than among PHP programmers. Even the standard library seems to be reinventing its own wheels. I'm looking at you, mysql_real*_escape_string.
richardwhiuk 3y ago
> as the PHP devs I have seen are more prone to trying out new tools and not reinvent the wheel in source code Do you mean "less prone"?
jimbokun 3y ago
Not a PHP developer, but wouldn't the reason be a more responsive development environment? Edit text file on server, refresh page in browser, see your changes. That's really difficult to pull off with Java.
- DarkNova6 3y ago
  Difficult yes, but Quarkus can do it (Java got dynamic class loading after all: https://medium.com/geekculture/speed-up-development-and-save-time-with-live-reload-and-testing-in-quarkus-2-0-53af6ff65edb https://medium.com/geekculture/speed-up-development-and-save... You are technically right about changing files of course, but remember: - PHP speed is all about caching. Changing a file means rebuilding (all) caches. - PHP debugging is nothing worth bragging about. Java is way more powerful and the jvm supports runtime reload of methods as well. This also goes together with the fact that most php devs are println devs (from what I have observed). And then there are other things like maintenance of old php applications is a major headache because on mac old php versions just disappear in brew. And new PHP releases like to break A LOT.
  - askonomm 3y ago
    Is relying on OS bundled PHP version really a thing? I have not once in my 12 years of working in this field experienced anyone relying on the default OS installation of PHP. Most PHP lives in shared hosting platforms that are managed, and needier apps in a VPS where the PHP is also set-up, or in Docker, where again, it's set up.

sshine 3y ago

> the PHP devs I have seen are more prone to [...] not reinvent the wheel in source code* I have the opposite experience: Because PHP and package management is relatively new (Composer is from 2012, compared to CPAN's general availability in 1995), I haven't seen more wheel-reinventing than among PHP programmers. Even the standard library seems to be reinventing its own wheels. I'm looking at you, mysql_real*_escape_string.

richardwhiuk 3y ago

> as the PHP devs I have seen are more prone to trying out new tools and not reinvent the wheel in source code Do you mean "less prone"?

jimbokun 3y ago

Not a PHP developer, but wouldn't the reason be a more responsive development environment? Edit text file on server, refresh page in browser, see your changes. That's really difficult to pull off with Java.

DarkNova6 3y ago
Difficult yes, but Quarkus can do it (Java got dynamic class loading after all: https://medium.com/geekculture/speed-up-development-and-save-time-with-live-reload-and-testing-in-quarkus-2-0-53af6ff65edb https://medium.com/geekculture/speed-up-development-and-save... You are technically right about changing files of course, but remember: - PHP speed is all about caching. Changing a file means rebuilding (all) caches. - PHP debugging is nothing worth bragging about. Java is way more powerful and the jvm supports runtime reload of methods as well. This also goes together with the fact that most php devs are println devs (from what I have observed). And then there are other things like maintenance of old php applications is a major headache because on mac old php versions just disappear in brew. And new PHP releases like to break A LOT.
- askonomm 3y ago
  Is relying on OS bundled PHP version really a thing? I have not once in my 12 years of working in this field experienced anyone relying on the default OS installation of PHP. Most PHP lives in shared hosting platforms that are managed, and needier apps in a VPS where the PHP is also set-up, or in Docker, where again, it's set up.