9 ms·

GIMP 3.0 has a release schedule

130 points by pabs3 3y ago

2Gkashmiri 3y ago
i am not sure what i heard. i am sorry if the narrator is in this thread/reads this but i could not differentiate between the narration being made by a bad robot or someone stuttering. i tried to make out the difference between the two but simply couldn't
- smt88 3y ago
  I grew up speaking English in the US and didn't have trouble understanding him. The accent is thick, but it's understandable. Anyway all of the content is also in the text of the page.
  - 2Gkashmiri 3y ago
    no no. i understood everything normally. the sound felt weird thats all
- wingerlang 3y ago
  Uncanney valley probably comes from the sounds either being speech or complete 100% silence, dead space being cut out. I think it is understandable and clearly not a robot though.
- hiccuphippo 3y ago
  This is because that's one of the developers themselves and not some marketing team. I understood pretty well despite English not being my primary language.
  - prokoudine 3y ago
    I'm not a developer really, and I'm not part of the team for close to two years already :)
- prokoudine 3y ago
  Oh, I'm probably bad, but definitely not a robot :) Bleep. I think there's some distortion added by the Noise Repellent plugin, will look into tweaking settings.
archerx 3y ago
A while back I was working on an indie game dev project and I wanted to see if I could do it without using Photoshop and in my naïveté I downloaded gimp expecting it to be an easy switch over. It was probably one of the most frustrating experiences in software in my life, I knew what I wanted to do but it seemed like gimp was going out of its way to make it as difficult and unintuitive as possible. I was literally getting angry in front of my computer which never happens. My solution in the end was to download Krita, without using any tutorials I was able to figure it out and was working on assets and textures with very little friction. Now days Photopea, a web based editor is much more useful and less frustrating than gimp. I still think of gimp as one of the worst UX experiences in my life and it makes blenders interface seem amazing in comparison which is sad because blender too has an awful unintuitive interface that keeps getting “fixed”. In the end, what the gimp team should focus on is the UX of gimp and make using it not feel like pulling teeth.
- Beijinger 3y ago
  Thanks for mentioning it. Gimp is okay, except for the missing CMKY. There was once a CMKY support plug-in, wasn't there? Do you know what I miss? The inkscape competitor Xara Xtreme (XL). Gone..
  - prokoudine 3y ago
    The separate+ plugin isn't maintained, but GIMP 2.99/3.0 has late binding for CMYK (basically, work in RGB, export in CMYK).
- j1elo 3y ago
  Bear with me and take a breath :) If you think with a cold head about it, do you believe the frustration came from the fact that Gimp has made actually bad choices about placement and design of its features? (tools, menus, options, etc...) Or would you say it's just that they took a different path, not worse nor better, just wholly different, and that makes things more confusing for people who are used to, and have the different thing made by Photoshop, ingrained in their minds? (btw your mention about Krita was very spot-on, because otherwise conversation usually ends up revolving about how Gimp is FOSS and thus they cannot afford having a full time designer working on the best possible UI... but in this case it seems clear that Krita has been better for you, while also being FOSS)
shmerl 3y ago
> Once 3.0 is released, we can have a long conversation about the way the team plans their work, which is not great, and the way they finance it, which is even worse. But right now the community needs to finish off this SOB of a release. Gimp would benefit from faster pace of development and more funding. Blender is a good example how it can work.
- puzzlingcaptcha 3y ago
  Krita also seems to be doing better in that regard, despite not having the massive industry backing that Blender enjoys.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
ludston 3y ago
Usually when there is a post on HN about some open source project with a GUI there is a deluge of comments complaining about it for one reason or another. Even though it's free. I don't understand why. Gimp is a wonderful piece of free software that I use often, and I greatly appreciate the work and time the maintainers are putting into it.
- mvdtnz 3y ago
  You don't understand why, when software has a bad interface, and said software is under discussion on a web forum, people discuss the bad UI? I find that very hard to believe.
  - diffeomorphism 3y ago
    You don't understand the difference between complaining and discussion? Seems even harder to believe.
  - doublerabbit 3y ago
    Yes the common argument is about the UI and which one where that Blender and Krita are both the new kids on the block. They were started from scratch with the ability to have a clean UI. GIMP not so. Its an ancient carved releic from the days of GTK2. If you've ever worked with old X you'll know. Back then UI was in a different world than to what we have now. It's unfortunate that the UI of GIMP just never has been rekindled to the newer century, but that's a you problem not a them problem. However saying that, nothing is stopping you from spear driving the new GUI design. It's open source after all.
    - mvdtnz 3y ago
      I'm not sure what your point is (other than the requisite "it's OSS so fix it yourself" brain-dead take). Like I said, the UI is bad. We all know the UI is bad. Whats the point in GP expressing fake surprise when people say "the UI is bad"?
      - 3y ago
amelius 3y ago
Looking forward to the stable diffusion tools (I'm guessing they will be in there).
- nacs 3y ago
  Krita has a number of Stable Diffusion plugins (all OSS).
- prokoudine 3y ago
  There you go: https://github.com/blueturtleai/gimp-stable-diffusion https://github.com/blueturtleai/gimp-stable-diffusion :)
  - walteweiss 3y ago
    >This plugin is no longer actively developed.
senectus1 3y ago
and no mention of wayland support :-(
- planede 3y ago
  https://developer.gimp.org/core/roadmap/#gimp-30-development-branch-roadmap https://developer.gimp.org/core/roadmap/#gimp-30-development... work in progress
- kubafu 3y ago
  This is what I came here for too. In the past I got an impression that Gimp 3 will run on Wayland as it's based on GTK 3, source: https://www.gimp.org/news/2020/11/06/gimp-2-99-2-released/ https://www.gimp.org/news/2020/11/06/gimp-2-99-2-released/
- colordrops 3y ago
  Beta builds are working on Wayland for me.
  - 3836293648 3y ago
    There's a difference between Wayland support and working on Wayland. They're asking about actual wayland support, not xwayland, which presumably was never and issue
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - zamadatix 3y ago
      The beta builds don't use XWayland.
    - colordrops 3y ago
      Where did I say Xwayland? It's 100% using Wayland, works perfectly for me.
- jbirer 3y ago
mattbis 3y ago
Reading that if there is a project that needs more hands it has to be GIMP... That being said without introducing more workload than it fixes. I am not sure how long the lead up time is to being useful. Seems to me just fixing bugs would really help them - if can be done - without causing further issues.
mkl 3y ago
I remember being really excited about the first GIMP release that partly used GEGL [1], when a fully GEGL-based GIMP 3.0 seemed right around the corner. That was GIMP 2.6 in 2008. I've been using GIMP for over 20 years at this point. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GEGL https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GEGL
roschdal 3y ago
GIMP is great!
post-factum 3y ago
Is there a link to an official announcement please, not to some suspicious site hosted in Muscovy? Thank you.
- prokoudine 3y ago
  Both Patreon (original announcement by lead dev), GNOME's gitlab instance (where the roadmap is) and Libre Arts (linked post) are hosted in the US. What's causing your suspicion?
xbmcuser 3y ago
GIMP ui is hard for new users and because of the extremely hard learning curve most people give up on it. People overreact about the gui complains but people that have been using it for years have blinders same is the case for most of its developers. Similar is the case for calibre another popular open source project I have been using it from almost its inception so I don't see the problems that new users face that have grown up with a new gui rules and interfaces. Both of these have pain points for new users but the legacy behind the code makes it impossible for the current devs to change it. So when people say don't like it then you should fork it is actually the only real way that it can move forward. And then if it is good enough change it might get back into the main fork otherwise it won't.
toastercat 3y ago
I used to use PhotoShop heavily and still have a lot of the UI muscle-memorized. I switched to GIMP + https://github.com/Diolinux/PhotoGIMP https://github.com/Diolinux/PhotoGIMP and found it mostly fits my needs for basic image editing.
dontlaugh 3y ago
I'm continuously surprised it doesn't get renamed to GNU Imp.
Shish2k 3y ago
Am I reading correctly that non-destructive editing, advanced colourspace support, and reliable hidpi display support are all unlikey to make it into 3.0…? Does anybody know what is expected to make it into 3.0? (IIRC the switch to gtk3 is happening at last, which is nice… even though gtk4 was released in 2020)
- prokoudine 3y ago
  > Am I reading correctly that non-destructive editing, advanced colourspace support, and reliable hidpi display support are all unlikey to make it into 3.0…? GIMP 2.99 already handles color spaces better than 2.10. E.g. you already have late binding for CMYK (but not early binding, that's post-3.0 stuff). There's no telling if layer filters will make it to 3.0, I guess we'll see how much is done at feature freeze time. So I wouldn't be too fast to jump at conclusions, Even if it's missing in 3.0.0, 3.0.2 would have it. As for HiDPI, the three way switch for canvas zooming suggested by Jehan here — https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gimp/-/issues/5206 https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gimp/-/issues/5206 — is something I hope they will reconsider. There should be a better way to handle it. > Does anybody know what is expected to make it into 3.0? Everything you see in 2.10 point releases (much was backported from 2.99) plus some extras like GTK3 port, multi-layer selection, complete rewrite of linked layers concept, Lua and JS bindings, and various other things. Because of backporting, separating 3.0-specific changes from the rest is not an easy task.

130 points by pabs3 3y ago

i am not sure what i heard. i am sorry if the narrator is in this thread/reads this but i could not differentiate between the narration being made by a bad robot or someone stuttering. i tried to make out the difference between the two but simply couldn't

smt88 3y ago
I grew up speaking English in the US and didn't have trouble understanding him. The accent is thick, but it's understandable. Anyway all of the content is also in the text of the page.
- 2Gkashmiri 3y ago
  no no. i understood everything normally. the sound felt weird thats all
wingerlang 3y ago
Uncanney valley probably comes from the sounds either being speech or complete 100% silence, dead space being cut out. I think it is understandable and clearly not a robot though.
hiccuphippo 3y ago
This is because that's one of the developers themselves and not some marketing team. I understood pretty well despite English not being my primary language.
- prokoudine 3y ago
  I'm not a developer really, and I'm not part of the team for close to two years already :)
prokoudine 3y ago
Oh, I'm probably bad, but definitely not a robot :) Bleep. I think there's some distortion added by the Noise Repellent plugin, will look into tweaking settings.

archerx 3y ago

A while back I was working on an indie game dev project and I wanted to see if I could do it without using Photoshop and in my naïveté I downloaded gimp expecting it to be an easy switch over. It was probably one of the most frustrating experiences in software in my life, I knew what I wanted to do but it seemed like gimp was going out of its way to make it as difficult and unintuitive as possible. I was literally getting angry in front of my computer which never happens. My solution in the end was to download Krita, without using any tutorials I was able to figure it out and was working on assets and textures with very little friction. Now days Photopea, a web based editor is much more useful and less frustrating than gimp. I still think of gimp as one of the worst UX experiences in my life and it makes blenders interface seem amazing in comparison which is sad because blender too has an awful unintuitive interface that keeps getting “fixed”. In the end, what the gimp team should focus on is the UX of gimp and make using it not feel like pulling teeth.

Beijinger 3y ago
Thanks for mentioning it. Gimp is okay, except for the missing CMKY. There was once a CMKY support plug-in, wasn't there? Do you know what I miss? The inkscape competitor Xara Xtreme (XL). Gone..
- prokoudine 3y ago
  The separate+ plugin isn't maintained, but GIMP 2.99/3.0 has late binding for CMYK (basically, work in RGB, export in CMYK).
j1elo 3y ago
Bear with me and take a breath :) If you think with a cold head about it, do you believe the frustration came from the fact that Gimp has made actually bad choices about placement and design of its features? (tools, menus, options, etc...) Or would you say it's just that they took a different path, not worse nor better, just wholly different, and that makes things more confusing for people who are used to, and have the different thing made by Photoshop, ingrained in their minds? (btw your mention about Krita was very spot-on, because otherwise conversation usually ends up revolving about how Gimp is FOSS and thus they cannot afford having a full time designer working on the best possible UI... but in this case it seems clear that Krita has been better for you, while also being FOSS)

shmerl 3y ago

> Once 3.0 is released, we can have a long conversation about the way the team plans their work, which is not great, and the way they finance it, which is even worse. But right now the community needs to finish off this SOB of a release. Gimp would benefit from faster pace of development and more funding. Blender is a good example how it can work.

puzzlingcaptcha 3y ago
Krita also seems to be doing better in that regard, despite not having the massive industry backing that Blender enjoys.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

ludston 3y ago

Usually when there is a post on HN about some open source project with a GUI there is a deluge of comments complaining about it for one reason or another. Even though it's free. I don't understand why. Gimp is a wonderful piece of free software that I use often, and I greatly appreciate the work and time the maintainers are putting into it.

mvdtnz 3y ago
You don't understand why, when software has a bad interface, and said software is under discussion on a web forum, people discuss the bad UI? I find that very hard to believe.
- diffeomorphism 3y ago
  You don't understand the difference between complaining and discussion? Seems even harder to believe.
- doublerabbit 3y ago
  Yes the common argument is about the UI and which one where that Blender and Krita are both the new kids on the block. They were started from scratch with the ability to have a clean UI. GIMP not so. Its an ancient carved releic from the days of GTK2. If you've ever worked with old X you'll know. Back then UI was in a different world than to what we have now. It's unfortunate that the UI of GIMP just never has been rekindled to the newer century, but that's a you problem not a them problem. However saying that, nothing is stopping you from spear driving the new GUI design. It's open source after all.
  - mvdtnz 3y ago
    I'm not sure what your point is (other than the requisite "it's OSS so fix it yourself" brain-dead take). Like I said, the UI is bad. We all know the UI is bad. Whats the point in GP expressing fake surprise when people say "the UI is bad"?
    - 3y ago

amelius 3y ago

Looking forward to the stable diffusion tools (I'm guessing they will be in there).

nacs 3y ago
Krita has a number of Stable Diffusion plugins (all OSS).
prokoudine 3y ago
There you go: https://github.com/blueturtleai/gimp-stable-diffusion https://github.com/blueturtleai/gimp-stable-diffusion :)
- walteweiss 3y ago
  >This plugin is no longer actively developed.

senectus1 3y ago

and no mention of wayland support :-(

planede 3y ago
https://developer.gimp.org/core/roadmap/#gimp-30-development-branch-roadmap https://developer.gimp.org/core/roadmap/#gimp-30-development... work in progress
kubafu 3y ago
This is what I came here for too. In the past I got an impression that Gimp 3 will run on Wayland as it's based on GTK 3, source: https://www.gimp.org/news/2020/11/06/gimp-2-99-2-released/ https://www.gimp.org/news/2020/11/06/gimp-2-99-2-released/
colordrops 3y ago
Beta builds are working on Wayland for me.
- 3836293648 3y ago
  There's a difference between Wayland support and working on Wayland. They're asking about actual wayland support, not xwayland, which presumably was never and issue
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - zamadatix 3y ago
    The beta builds don't use XWayland.
  - colordrops 3y ago
    Where did I say Xwayland? It's 100% using Wayland, works perfectly for me.
jbirer 3y ago

mattbis 3y ago

Reading that if there is a project that needs more hands it has to be GIMP... That being said without introducing more workload than it fixes. I am not sure how long the lead up time is to being useful. Seems to me just fixing bugs would really help them - if can be done - without causing further issues.

mkl 3y ago

I remember being really excited about the first GIMP release that partly used GEGL [1], when a fully GEGL-based GIMP 3.0 seemed right around the corner. That was GIMP 2.6 in 2008. I've been using GIMP for over 20 years at this point. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GEGL https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GEGL

roschdal 3y ago

GIMP is great!

post-factum 3y ago

Is there a link to an official announcement please, not to some suspicious site hosted in Muscovy? Thank you.

prokoudine 3y ago
Both Patreon (original announcement by lead dev), GNOME's gitlab instance (where the roadmap is) and Libre Arts (linked post) are hosted in the US. What's causing your suspicion?

xbmcuser 3y ago

GIMP ui is hard for new users and because of the extremely hard learning curve most people give up on it. People overreact about the gui complains but people that have been using it for years have blinders same is the case for most of its developers. Similar is the case for calibre another popular open source project I have been using it from almost its inception so I don't see the problems that new users face that have grown up with a new gui rules and interfaces. Both of these have pain points for new users but the legacy behind the code makes it impossible for the current devs to change it. So when people say don't like it then you should fork it is actually the only real way that it can move forward. And then if it is good enough change it might get back into the main fork otherwise it won't.

toastercat 3y ago

I used to use PhotoShop heavily and still have a lot of the UI muscle-memorized. I switched to GIMP + https://github.com/Diolinux/PhotoGIMP https://github.com/Diolinux/PhotoGIMP and found it mostly fits my needs for basic image editing.

dontlaugh 3y ago

I'm continuously surprised it doesn't get renamed to GNU Imp.

Shish2k 3y ago

Am I reading correctly that non-destructive editing, advanced colourspace support, and reliable hidpi display support are all unlikey to make it into 3.0…? Does anybody know what is expected to make it into 3.0? (IIRC the switch to gtk3 is happening at last, which is nice… even though gtk4 was released in 2020)

prokoudine 3y ago
> Am I reading correctly that non-destructive editing, advanced colourspace support, and reliable hidpi display support are all unlikey to make it into 3.0…? GIMP 2.99 already handles color spaces better than 2.10. E.g. you already have late binding for CMYK (but not early binding, that's post-3.0 stuff). There's no telling if layer filters will make it to 3.0, I guess we'll see how much is done at feature freeze time. So I wouldn't be too fast to jump at conclusions, Even if it's missing in 3.0.0, 3.0.2 would have it. As for HiDPI, the three way switch for canvas zooming suggested by Jehan here — https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gimp/-/issues/5206 https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gimp/-/issues/5206 — is something I hope they will reconsider. There should be a better way to handle it. > Does anybody know what is expected to make it into 3.0? Everything you see in 2.10 point releases (much was backported from 2.99) plus some extras like GTK3 port, multi-layer selection, complete rewrite of linked layers concept, Lua and JS bindings, and various other things. Because of backporting, separating 3.0-specific changes from the rest is not an easy task.