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That has almost no value to them unless they can use that to show you ads. They use that data to target ads to you, that is the whole point. Do you think they c

That has almost no value to them unless they can use that to show you ads. They use that data to target ads to you, that is the whole point. Do you think they care about what you do or who you are for any other reason?

oaththrowaway 3y ago
If it has no value then why don't they stop?
- Jensson 3y ago
  Because they show ads to people. Do you think they should stop collecting your data just because you block their ads? I don't see why that would make any sense, they have no reason to incentivize ad block use.
  - oaththrowaway 3y ago
    But even if I pay them, they still collect my data. I lose either way. I'll pick the way that is better for me in that situation
    - Jensson 3y ago
      But that isn't a fair trade, you argued that your data is worth enough to them that you should be allowed to use their server resources without anything extra from you. But that isn't true, every user like you costs them much more money than they earn. In such a situation where one part pays for the other parts benefits, you should expect the part that just loses out to try to end the trade. And that is what we see happening here, youtube tries to block you since youtube doesn't want you as a user, since you lose them money.
      - oaththrowaway 3y ago
        No, you argued that my data wasn't worth anything. I argued that if it wasn't they wouldn't desperately try and get all my credit, medical, schooling, and browsing history. What they do is incredibly immoral and despicable. There is no opt-out (even if I pay them money). Even if I never use their services they still try to vacuum up all my data. Me watching a few YouTube videos a week is a better deal for them than it is for me.
        Jensson 3y ago
        > you argued that my data wasn't worth anything If you block all their ads. They get your data since they intend to display ads to you. I said that in the first post, did you miss that?
        oaththrowaway 3y ago
        So why are they spying on me when I still pay them? Or are you going to still pretend that hasn't been brought up 3 times now? Or that there is no opt out for their other tracking?
        Jensson 3y ago
        > So why are they spying on me when I still pay them Since you pay them you have an account and is logged in. They do use the data they have collected about you to serve you targeted videos even if they don't serve you targeted ads, they say that in their privacy policy document. Targeted videos are for your convenience. If you don't want it to target videos to you you can disable all that data collection here, at least I can (Not sure if you can outside of EU): https://myaccount.google.com/yourdata/youtube https://myaccount.google.com/yourdata/youtube So go and disable all that if you feel their video targeting isn't worth collecting your data, but there is no way for them to target videos without having any data about you.
        oaththrowaway 3y ago
        I don't want targeted videos. I don't even want them to know I exist. Even if I never used YouTube, that is impossible. Their tracking is all encompassing and invasive, even without a Google account. They are a menace to the world and it should be an obligation to block their ads. If Google disappeared tomorrow the world would be better off.
unclenoriega 3y ago
So if I block the ads, I guess that makes us even.
- Jensson 3y ago
  No, it pits the entire relationship in your favor since they now don't receive anything of value from you while you still receive their service. A trade can't be fair when only one part benefits. If you feel their services are worth nothing then stop using them.
  - zeta0134 3y ago
    I'm working on that. The hardest one to cut out is Google Maps, which doesn't have an ad free option. Anyway, the value they receive is incidental: if I like content, I'll tell my friends about it. Not all of my friends dislike ads. I "market" the content via word of mouth. The content markets the subscriptions. Or the ads. Either one. If I stop watching the content entirely (due to it becoming harder to discover) then fewer of my friends know about it. So it's not quite as black and white as you want it to be. The "grifting" population helps content to spread to the paying population.
    - nerdbert 3y ago
      > The hardest one to cut out is Google Maps, which doesn't have an ad free option. OpenStreetMaps is considerably more customizable, has much better hiking trail data, and doesn't hide train stations and street names when you zoom/pan. Google Maps has become awful in the last few years.
      - Jensson 3y ago
        OpenStreetMaps doesn't have aerial photo views, nor does it have street view. Those two let me go to almost any part of the world and see what it looks like, what the streets and houses are like in reality instead of just their marketing brochure photos.
      - 3y ago

oaththrowaway 3y ago

If it has no value then why don't they stop?

Jensson 3y ago
Because they show ads to people. Do you think they should stop collecting your data just because you block their ads? I don't see why that would make any sense, they have no reason to incentivize ad block use.
- oaththrowaway 3y ago
  But even if I pay them, they still collect my data. I lose either way. I'll pick the way that is better for me in that situation
  - Jensson 3y ago
    But that isn't a fair trade, you argued that your data is worth enough to them that you should be allowed to use their server resources without anything extra from you. But that isn't true, every user like you costs them much more money than they earn. In such a situation where one part pays for the other parts benefits, you should expect the part that just loses out to try to end the trade. And that is what we see happening here, youtube tries to block you since youtube doesn't want you as a user, since you lose them money.
    - oaththrowaway 3y ago
      No, you argued that my data wasn't worth anything. I argued that if it wasn't they wouldn't desperately try and get all my credit, medical, schooling, and browsing history. What they do is incredibly immoral and despicable. There is no opt-out (even if I pay them money). Even if I never use their services they still try to vacuum up all my data. Me watching a few YouTube videos a week is a better deal for them than it is for me.
      - Jensson 3y ago
        > you argued that my data wasn't worth anything If you block all their ads. They get your data since they intend to display ads to you. I said that in the first post, did you miss that?
        oaththrowaway 3y ago
        So why are they spying on me when I still pay them? Or are you going to still pretend that hasn't been brought up 3 times now? Or that there is no opt out for their other tracking?
        Jensson 3y ago
        > So why are they spying on me when I still pay them Since you pay them you have an account and is logged in. They do use the data they have collected about you to serve you targeted videos even if they don't serve you targeted ads, they say that in their privacy policy document. Targeted videos are for your convenience. If you don't want it to target videos to you you can disable all that data collection here, at least I can (Not sure if you can outside of EU): https://myaccount.google.com/yourdata/youtube https://myaccount.google.com/yourdata/youtube So go and disable all that if you feel their video targeting isn't worth collecting your data, but there is no way for them to target videos without having any data about you.
        oaththrowaway 3y ago
        I don't want targeted videos. I don't even want them to know I exist. Even if I never used YouTube, that is impossible. Their tracking is all encompassing and invasive, even without a Google account. They are a menace to the world and it should be an obligation to block their ads. If Google disappeared tomorrow the world would be better off.

unclenoriega 3y ago

So if I block the ads, I guess that makes us even.

Jensson 3y ago
No, it pits the entire relationship in your favor since they now don't receive anything of value from you while you still receive their service. A trade can't be fair when only one part benefits. If you feel their services are worth nothing then stop using them.
- zeta0134 3y ago
  I'm working on that. The hardest one to cut out is Google Maps, which doesn't have an ad free option. Anyway, the value they receive is incidental: if I like content, I'll tell my friends about it. Not all of my friends dislike ads. I "market" the content via word of mouth. The content markets the subscriptions. Or the ads. Either one. If I stop watching the content entirely (due to it becoming harder to discover) then fewer of my friends know about it. So it's not quite as black and white as you want it to be. The "grifting" population helps content to spread to the paying population.
  - nerdbert 3y ago
    > The hardest one to cut out is Google Maps, which doesn't have an ad free option. OpenStreetMaps is considerably more customizable, has much better hiking trail data, and doesn't hide train stations and street names when you zoom/pan. Google Maps has become awful in the last few years.
    - Jensson 3y ago
      OpenStreetMaps doesn't have aerial photo views, nor does it have street view. Those two let me go to almost any part of the world and see what it looks like, what the streets and houses are like in reality instead of just their marketing brochure photos.
    - 3y ago