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Something else I don’t love from looking at my neighborhood is that Aldi gets its own pin/emphasis. Not the important municipal buildings, parks or school. Her

Something else I don’t love from looking at my neighborhood is that Aldi gets its own pin/emphasis. Not the important municipal buildings, parks or school. Her most basic point about the water and parks says it all. There’s a lot of existing visual language around this stuff that could be drawn from. Things going back hundreds of years. But I guess a fucking pin for Aldi speaks volumes about where the real priority is for this „product”.

nostrebored 3y ago
Anecdotally I’m way more likely to care about a grocery than any of the locations you’ve mentioned. The goal isn’t creating a historical representation of where things were. It’s supposed to be functional.
- dkjaudyeqooe 3y ago
  > It’s supposed to be functional. For whom? Aldi who is highlighted? Google who is paid? Or the poor suckers trying to find something? A subtle dark pattern that Google uses is that they have roughly one size of POI, so there isn't enough space to show everything, or most things, it has to pick and choose. That artificial scarcity is tied to the profit motive (pay for prominence) and is user hostile. Sure, grocery stores are most common, but often you're looking for something else. Using small icons, smaller text, or some other UI affordance to facilitate finding what you need nearby, quickly and without text searching, would be great, but isn't in Google's interest.
  - robertlagrant 3y ago
    > A subtle dark pattern that Google uses is that they have roughly one size of POI How many useful sizes could they have on a phone? > the profit motive (pay for prominence) Can you pay for this?
    - 15kingben 3y ago
      > Can you pay for this? Yes - https://support.google.com/google-ads/answer/9934637?hl=en https://support.google.com/google-ads/answer/9934637?hl=en
  - thanhhaimai 3y ago
    I think this opinion is unnecessarily cynical. The people who navigate to school tend to have one or two school per year. They learn the route by heart mostly. Schools are not interchangeable for the one attending them. On the other hand, I don't keep track of grocery stores, and I'm much more likely to look for them on a map (especially to plan where to stop by along the road). There are more likely explanations here than to immediately jumping to the cynical interpretation.
    - guappa 3y ago
      Why if you look for "restaurants" it will show you a restaurant that is 5km away and not one that is 100m away (but is indeed in the db)? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38401345 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38401345
    - CogitoCogito 3y ago
      “Follow the money” is _not_ a cynical interpretation. I’d go so far as to say that ignoring the money is entirely naive.
    - Lamad1234 3y ago
      [dead]
- gsinclair 3y ago
  Fair, but one aspect of functionality is highlighting local landmarks like schools, so a viewer can more easily get their bearings.
- scyzoryk_xyz 3y ago
  Next to the Aldi there is a large grocery marketplace/bazaar that’s far more crowded - that isn’t marked with a pin at all. Point being - Aldi is paying for this service. The map is skewering reality. It’s not about historical representation, it’s about the fact that map-making has been around for awhile, and there are some great existing techniques for presenting that information that could be drawn on. But no, let’s melt colors together and highlight corporate chain stores with pins.
  - Izkata 3y ago
    Likewise here - as you zoom in, the default pins show this tiny bakery before the huge grocery store everyone uses. The grocery story shows up at the same time as a really random set of apartment buildings.
- Doctor_Fegg 3y ago
  The goal is different for different users of the map, as this thread pretty clearly demonstrates. But it's 100% fine that Google Maps isn't the all-singing all-dancing maps app for everyone. Other maps are available. Plurality is good.
nickff 3y ago
Perhaps more people actually search for the Aldi because they're passing through and don't know or remember where it is, or because they're looking for operating hours and other information. Most people go to the same schools & parks, nearest their homes, on a regular (daily/weekly) basis, so they don't need directions.
- saulpw 3y ago
  "Perhaps". But it's quite optimistic in 2023 to think that Google or any major company is using their data for your benefit.
  - thunky 3y ago
    I'm pretty sure they want people to use their products. Making it useful helps that cause.
    - guappa 3y ago
      Nah, they do their little dirty tricks all the time. For example they decide which hotels/restaurants to show in an area when you search. They won't show all of the nearby ones. They might show one that is 5km away and not one that is 100m away. Once I was in a restaurant that was not in maps. I decided to add it to the map when I was home. Turned out the place was in their database, but they just decided to NOT show it, even at maximum zoom level over it. But when I added it, they asked if it wasn't that other one that already existed. Moral of the story: use openstreetmaps.
      - awiesenhofer 3y ago
        > Turned out the place was in their database, but they just decided to NOT show it, even at maximum zoom level over it. I have the same problem with my barber shop of all places. Even though I've been there probably a hundred times maps never shows it no matter the zoom level, I have to search it by name to find it. My cynical view is they once said no to a promo offer for ads and are now punished for it.
c0pium 3y ago
> important municipal buildings No such thing exists.
aimor 3y ago
At least it's a real store getting a pin. When I open up Google maps I get a screen full of "Bob's Custom Homes", "Linda's Chocolate Tasting", "Ted's Towing", "Local Auto Detail" all pointing to residential houses in a very residential neighborhood.

nostrebored 3y ago

Anecdotally I’m way more likely to care about a grocery than any of the locations you’ve mentioned. The goal isn’t creating a historical representation of where things were. It’s supposed to be functional.

dkjaudyeqooe 3y ago
> It’s supposed to be functional. For whom? Aldi who is highlighted? Google who is paid? Or the poor suckers trying to find something? A subtle dark pattern that Google uses is that they have roughly one size of POI, so there isn't enough space to show everything, or most things, it has to pick and choose. That artificial scarcity is tied to the profit motive (pay for prominence) and is user hostile. Sure, grocery stores are most common, but often you're looking for something else. Using small icons, smaller text, or some other UI affordance to facilitate finding what you need nearby, quickly and without text searching, would be great, but isn't in Google's interest.
- robertlagrant 3y ago
  > A subtle dark pattern that Google uses is that they have roughly one size of POI How many useful sizes could they have on a phone? > the profit motive (pay for prominence) Can you pay for this?
  - 15kingben 3y ago
    > Can you pay for this? Yes - https://support.google.com/google-ads/answer/9934637?hl=en https://support.google.com/google-ads/answer/9934637?hl=en
- thanhhaimai 3y ago
  I think this opinion is unnecessarily cynical. The people who navigate to school tend to have one or two school per year. They learn the route by heart mostly. Schools are not interchangeable for the one attending them. On the other hand, I don't keep track of grocery stores, and I'm much more likely to look for them on a map (especially to plan where to stop by along the road). There are more likely explanations here than to immediately jumping to the cynical interpretation.
  - guappa 3y ago
    Why if you look for "restaurants" it will show you a restaurant that is 5km away and not one that is 100m away (but is indeed in the db)? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38401345 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38401345
  - CogitoCogito 3y ago
    “Follow the money” is _not_ a cynical interpretation. I’d go so far as to say that ignoring the money is entirely naive.
  - Lamad1234 3y ago
    [dead]
gsinclair 3y ago
Fair, but one aspect of functionality is highlighting local landmarks like schools, so a viewer can more easily get their bearings.
scyzoryk_xyz 3y ago
Next to the Aldi there is a large grocery marketplace/bazaar that’s far more crowded - that isn’t marked with a pin at all. Point being - Aldi is paying for this service. The map is skewering reality. It’s not about historical representation, it’s about the fact that map-making has been around for awhile, and there are some great existing techniques for presenting that information that could be drawn on. But no, let’s melt colors together and highlight corporate chain stores with pins.
- Izkata 3y ago
  Likewise here - as you zoom in, the default pins show this tiny bakery before the huge grocery store everyone uses. The grocery story shows up at the same time as a really random set of apartment buildings.
Doctor_Fegg 3y ago
The goal is different for different users of the map, as this thread pretty clearly demonstrates. But it's 100% fine that Google Maps isn't the all-singing all-dancing maps app for everyone. Other maps are available. Plurality is good.

nickff 3y ago

Perhaps more people actually search for the Aldi because they're passing through and don't know or remember where it is, or because they're looking for operating hours and other information. Most people go to the same schools & parks, nearest their homes, on a regular (daily/weekly) basis, so they don't need directions.

saulpw 3y ago
"Perhaps". But it's quite optimistic in 2023 to think that Google or any major company is using their data for your benefit.
- thunky 3y ago
  I'm pretty sure they want people to use their products. Making it useful helps that cause.
  - guappa 3y ago
    Nah, they do their little dirty tricks all the time. For example they decide which hotels/restaurants to show in an area when you search. They won't show all of the nearby ones. They might show one that is 5km away and not one that is 100m away. Once I was in a restaurant that was not in maps. I decided to add it to the map when I was home. Turned out the place was in their database, but they just decided to NOT show it, even at maximum zoom level over it. But when I added it, they asked if it wasn't that other one that already existed. Moral of the story: use openstreetmaps.
    - awiesenhofer 3y ago
      > Turned out the place was in their database, but they just decided to NOT show it, even at maximum zoom level over it. I have the same problem with my barber shop of all places. Even though I've been there probably a hundred times maps never shows it no matter the zoom level, I have to search it by name to find it. My cynical view is they once said no to a promo offer for ads and are now punished for it.

c0pium 3y ago

> important municipal buildings No such thing exists.

aimor 3y ago

At least it's a real store getting a pin. When I open up Google maps I get a screen full of "Bob's Custom Homes", "Linda's Chocolate Tasting", "Ted's Towing", "Local Auto Detail" all pointing to residential houses in a very residential neighborhood.