4 ms·

If Apple isn't able to police this then maybe it's unhealthy for the market to be completely controlled by them. They make billions off the AppStore and their

by munk-a 3y ago

If Apple isn't able to police this then maybe it's unhealthy for the market to be completely controlled by them. They make billions off the AppStore and their refusal to reinvest in proper moderation (especially for an app worth hundreds of thousands in revenue) is quite telling.

terminous 3y ago
This isn't an Apple problem, it's a problem with every business review platform. If a shady marketing firm takes a contract to give an app fake 5 star reviews, there's no way for the review platform to know if that shady marketing firm was hired by the app's developer or their competitor. Only the marketing firm knows.
- DelightOne 3y ago
  Except that Apple ist the gatekeeper here.
  - type0 3y ago
    Apple engages in a lot of anti-competitive practices. I think in the case of App Store it's called captive supply, it is detrimental for both users and developers but good for Apple https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captive_supply https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captive_supply
- munk-a 3y ago
  There is a way for the platform to handle that scenario... Manual review. Apple chooses not to rely on manual review and we shouldn't discount this decision of theirs.
  - terminous 3y ago
    How would you be able to tell by manual review if a fake review from a SEO firm was paid for by that app's developer or by their competitor? There is no signal there. The ads are identical.
- _pigpen__ 3y ago
  If the App Store is the only vehicle for selling mobile apps on Apple devices, then by virtue of their monopoly, they have a duty to be entirely transparent and fair. It’s entirely an Apple problem.
  - AlchemistCamp 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - neoberg 3y ago
      Not OC but exactly. They have a "monopoly" on the comments by their HN handle so they're responsible for what's written from that handle. The same way Apple holds a monopoly on an ecosystem they created so they are responsible for what's happening there.
    - stefs 3y ago
      the app store is the monopoly. afaik there's no other way to get apps on your apple device.
      - AlchemistCamp 3y ago
        You are free to buy a non-Apple phone... because Apple does not have a monopoly.
        wernercd 3y ago
        So how do you get an app onto the iphone if they don't have a monopoly on apps on their phones? What other store can I use to get apps on a iPhone?
        AlchemistCamp 3y ago
        You don't seem to understand what a monopoly is. You can't arbitrarily put an app onto their hardware because they built it so you couldn't. However, not all hardware is created by them. You're free to purchase a different phone, and you can even make the number of app stores supported a primary buying decision.
- Aeolun 3y ago
  Then maybe they shouldn’t use fake reviews as a heuristic for termination?
lwhi 3y ago
This is and has always been the fundamental problem with Apple owning the app ecosystem.
euroderf 3y ago
Isn't this kind of the core of the problem with Yelp ?
brookst 3y ago
I think you just said any company that cannot practice moderation with absolute perfection should not be in business?
- munk-a 3y ago
  I'd say to "an acceptable level of moderation" - not perfect. But I agree with that statement if the company is itself profiting from the moderation. I think there's a separate example to be considered when the company is a "dumb host" - but as soon as the company starts promoting certain content with a complex algorithm (smarter than "most recent", "has most updoots", or even "has most updoots with a decay function") instead of just being a place people park their content then I think they adopt that responsibility. I feel quite similarly about things like Instagram and Facebook - I'd give a pass to Reddit because it basically does nothing outside of hosting discussions (similar to this platform). But yea, if you're a business that makes money promoting other people's content then you're responsible for that content. Similarly, I'd argue that a skywriting company that writes libel in the sky should be held responsible as an accessory to the client if they were aware the statements were libelous.

by munk-a 3y ago

terminous 3y ago

This isn't an Apple problem, it's a problem with every business review platform. If a shady marketing firm takes a contract to give an app fake 5 star reviews, there's no way for the review platform to know if that shady marketing firm was hired by the app's developer or their competitor. Only the marketing firm knows.

DelightOne 3y ago
Except that Apple ist the gatekeeper here.
- type0 3y ago
  Apple engages in a lot of anti-competitive practices. I think in the case of App Store it's called captive supply, it is detrimental for both users and developers but good for Apple https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captive_supply https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captive_supply
munk-a 3y ago
There is a way for the platform to handle that scenario... Manual review. Apple chooses not to rely on manual review and we shouldn't discount this decision of theirs.
- terminous 3y ago
  How would you be able to tell by manual review if a fake review from a SEO firm was paid for by that app's developer or by their competitor? There is no signal there. The ads are identical.
_pigpen__ 3y ago
If the App Store is the only vehicle for selling mobile apps on Apple devices, then by virtue of their monopoly, they have a duty to be entirely transparent and fair. It’s entirely an Apple problem.
- AlchemistCamp 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - neoberg 3y ago
    Not OC but exactly. They have a "monopoly" on the comments by their HN handle so they're responsible for what's written from that handle. The same way Apple holds a monopoly on an ecosystem they created so they are responsible for what's happening there.
  - stefs 3y ago
    the app store is the monopoly. afaik there's no other way to get apps on your apple device.
    - AlchemistCamp 3y ago
      You are free to buy a non-Apple phone... because Apple does not have a monopoly.
      - wernercd 3y ago
        So how do you get an app onto the iphone if they don't have a monopoly on apps on their phones? What other store can I use to get apps on a iPhone?
        AlchemistCamp 3y ago
        You don't seem to understand what a monopoly is. You can't arbitrarily put an app onto their hardware because they built it so you couldn't. However, not all hardware is created by them. You're free to purchase a different phone, and you can even make the number of app stores supported a primary buying decision.
Aeolun 3y ago
Then maybe they shouldn’t use fake reviews as a heuristic for termination?

lwhi 3y ago

This is and has always been the fundamental problem with Apple owning the app ecosystem.

euroderf 3y ago

Isn't this kind of the core of the problem with Yelp ?

brookst 3y ago

I think you just said any company that cannot practice moderation with absolute perfection should not be in business?

munk-a 3y ago
I'd say to "an acceptable level of moderation" - not perfect. But I agree with that statement if the company is itself profiting from the moderation. I think there's a separate example to be considered when the company is a "dumb host" - but as soon as the company starts promoting certain content with a complex algorithm (smarter than "most recent", "has most updoots", or even "has most updoots with a decay function") instead of just being a place people park their content then I think they adopt that responsibility. I feel quite similarly about things like Instagram and Facebook - I'd give a pass to Reddit because it basically does nothing outside of hosting discussions (similar to this platform). But yea, if you're a business that makes money promoting other people's content then you're responsible for that content. Similarly, I'd argue that a skywriting company that writes libel in the sky should be held responsible as an accessory to the client if they were aware the statements were libelous.