8 ms·

Or "Linux users are mostly developers and thus are more capable of filing good bug reports."

by tensor 3y ago

MuffinFlavored 3y ago
or “more vocal” / more inclined to “burn/invest/spend/waste” time tinkering
- jowea 3y ago
  I would also add that that the FOSS bug report experience is in some ways better. And in FOSS, reporting a bug is more worth it since without a QA department it probably won't be fixed unless it's reported.
  - 0x38B 3y ago
    Definitely! Case in point, I reported a bug in the iOS ePub reader I was using (crashing on the iOS beta I was running), and the developer responded to say they were working on it. Contrast that with the little bugs I’ve reported to Apple; they’ve not been fixed, and I don’t know if they ever will be. It’s disheartening and has undermined my trust in my phone’s OS and the company behind it. What I know from years of dealing with customers is that listening to their problems and acknowledging them, even if you can’t fix anything, works wonders (1). I once talked with a man who’d been utterly let down by our phone system as he waited outside to get his groceries: we’d told him he could come in early as we had his order done, but the system didn’t know that. When I went outside he was super frustrated, and rightly so. I heard him out and acknowledged that we’d dropped the ball, then asked him if he still wanted his groceries. It’s amazing how just being willing to listen can turn a situation from one where no one is happy to one that you can laugh about together (at how stupid software can be!). 1: part of listening and acknowledging is becoming the customer’s advocate and elevating as needed; this was something I did. Sometimes the answer was still “we can’t help”, but seeing that you did your best might be all they need.
bhhaskin 3y ago
It's sad that bug reports are considered a developer thing instead of a user/power user thing. I think the big issue is that most people have no idea how anything actually works. They aren't really users. At least not like users of old. They are just consumers that don't use the OS, just consume it.
- gretch 3y ago
  It’s not sad at all. Modern life is complex and we all know some stuff more than others. Should doctors think it’s sad when you don’t know enough about your body to self diagnose? What about legal disputes? You are a power user of society and you still need to hire a lawyer to navigate its laws?
  - santoshalper 3y ago
    100% this. Also, I have been making software for over 30 years. There was never a time in my life when end users were more competent and understood the systems better. In fact, for baseline technical literacy, you really can't beat Gen Z. They are by far the most technical generation of users I have seen.
    - datameta 3y ago
      Can you expand on the last point from experience? My gut reaction is to disagree, thinking about the level of familiarity required to adopt and deeply leverage an early 80s PC vs a modern smartphone. Do you mean higher average level of google-fu? Do you mean lower likelihood of collecting an egregious number of viruses?
    - iforgotpassword 3y ago
      Complete opposite of my experience. What field are you working in today? They know their way around apps, might know how to side load, but other than that have no deeper understanding of how things work under the hood, nor the desire to find out, because the phone itself usually works well enough and doesn't completely roll over every couple months like Win9x did back in the day. There is absolutely no incentive nowadays to dig into this for people other than tech enthusiasts. Their knowledge about computers is often close to non-existent, to the point where they get visibly confused by more involved user interfaces of professional software.
red75prime 3y ago
And/or "Linux users are less likely to have a bug fixed, unless they submit a bug report"
- LegibleCrimson 3y ago
  It seems obvious when you think of the numbers. When you have 100 users, 1% of them has to report a bug for it to get fixed. When you have 100k users, .0001% have to report a bug for it to get fixed.
  - account42 3y ago
    Except many bugs are cross-platform so the probability that it will be fixed is the same for both groups.
Kye 3y ago
Windows will do that "Generating a report to send..." thing which gives the impression it's already taken care of.

Or "Linux users are mostly developers and thus are more capable of filing good bug reports."

by tensor 3y ago

Or "Linux users are mostly developers and thus are more capable of filing good bug reports."

MuffinFlavored 3y ago

or “more vocal” / more inclined to “burn/invest/spend/waste” time tinkering

jowea 3y ago
I would also add that that the FOSS bug report experience is in some ways better. And in FOSS, reporting a bug is more worth it since without a QA department it probably won't be fixed unless it's reported.
- 0x38B 3y ago
  Definitely! Case in point, I reported a bug in the iOS ePub reader I was using (crashing on the iOS beta I was running), and the developer responded to say they were working on it. Contrast that with the little bugs I’ve reported to Apple; they’ve not been fixed, and I don’t know if they ever will be. It’s disheartening and has undermined my trust in my phone’s OS and the company behind it. What I know from years of dealing with customers is that listening to their problems and acknowledging them, even if you can’t fix anything, works wonders (1). I once talked with a man who’d been utterly let down by our phone system as he waited outside to get his groceries: we’d told him he could come in early as we had his order done, but the system didn’t know that. When I went outside he was super frustrated, and rightly so. I heard him out and acknowledged that we’d dropped the ball, then asked him if he still wanted his groceries. It’s amazing how just being willing to listen can turn a situation from one where no one is happy to one that you can laugh about together (at how stupid software can be!). 1: part of listening and acknowledging is becoming the customer’s advocate and elevating as needed; this was something I did. Sometimes the answer was still “we can’t help”, but seeing that you did your best might be all they need.

bhhaskin 3y ago

It's sad that bug reports are considered a developer thing instead of a user/power user thing. I think the big issue is that most people have no idea how anything actually works. They aren't really users. At least not like users of old. They are just consumers that don't use the OS, just consume it.

gretch 3y ago
It’s not sad at all. Modern life is complex and we all know some stuff more than others. Should doctors think it’s sad when you don’t know enough about your body to self diagnose? What about legal disputes? You are a power user of society and you still need to hire a lawyer to navigate its laws?
- santoshalper 3y ago
  100% this. Also, I have been making software for over 30 years. There was never a time in my life when end users were more competent and understood the systems better. In fact, for baseline technical literacy, you really can't beat Gen Z. They are by far the most technical generation of users I have seen.
  - datameta 3y ago
    Can you expand on the last point from experience? My gut reaction is to disagree, thinking about the level of familiarity required to adopt and deeply leverage an early 80s PC vs a modern smartphone. Do you mean higher average level of google-fu? Do you mean lower likelihood of collecting an egregious number of viruses?
  - iforgotpassword 3y ago
    Complete opposite of my experience. What field are you working in today? They know their way around apps, might know how to side load, but other than that have no deeper understanding of how things work under the hood, nor the desire to find out, because the phone itself usually works well enough and doesn't completely roll over every couple months like Win9x did back in the day. There is absolutely no incentive nowadays to dig into this for people other than tech enthusiasts. Their knowledge about computers is often close to non-existent, to the point where they get visibly confused by more involved user interfaces of professional software.

red75prime 3y ago

And/or "Linux users are less likely to have a bug fixed, unless they submit a bug report"

LegibleCrimson 3y ago
It seems obvious when you think of the numbers. When you have 100 users, 1% of them has to report a bug for it to get fixed. When you have 100k users, .0001% have to report a bug for it to get fixed.
- account42 3y ago
  Except many bugs are cross-platform so the probability that it will be fixed is the same for both groups.

Kye 3y ago

Windows will do that "Generating a report to send..." thing which gives the impression it's already taken care of.