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You must either acknowledge that boy clubs are more incompetent, or that you believe that boys are inherently more competent. In the latter case there is no poi

You must either acknowledge that boy clubs are more incompetent, or that you believe that boys are inherently more competent. In the latter case there is no point in discussing further.

account42 3y ago
Those are not the only two options. For example if the distribution of interested candiates is already skewed towards one gender then forcing gender quotas means you need to hire inferior candiates even if both genders have the same distribution of capability. That said, not only discounting that either gender could be better at certain jobs but refusing to talk to someone because you suspect that may be their opinion is beyond absurd and that kind of politicized gut-based and evidence-fearing thinking may be another reason why organizations that don't pay attention to gender politics are more capable than those that do.
- the_gipsy 3y ago
  Unbalanced pool of interested candidates is a factor, that's true, but the lack of interest is again a "boys club" syndrome from as early as school. And it's not like this "boys club" only happens at school stage and goes away at the workplace stage. There are some physical jobs that have some gender bias due to their physicality. Software development is not one of them. This is like debating e.g. covid deniers or whatever nutjobs you will, not worth my time but not evidence fearing.
notyofriend 3y ago
At a working level boys clubs work well. The culture dives commotion and high levels of cooperation. The problem often arises in management where the Alpha male gets promoted but doesn’t actually have the organizational skills to handle delicate problems or manage work effectively. The resulting management culture becomes toxic and unproductive quickly. For a short while diverse leadership and management structure was an indicator that companies were promoting based on competence. But once someone realized that that was the case companies started stuffing the pool to pretend they were promoting competency without actually doing that.

You must either acknowledge that boy clubs are more incompetent, or that you believe that boys are inherently more competent. In the latter case there is no point in discussing further.

account42 3y ago

Those are not the only two options. For example if the distribution of interested candiates is already skewed towards one gender then forcing gender quotas means you need to hire inferior candiates even if both genders have the same distribution of capability. That said, not only discounting that either gender could be better at certain jobs but refusing to talk to someone because you suspect that may be their opinion is beyond absurd and that kind of politicized gut-based and evidence-fearing thinking may be another reason why organizations that don't pay attention to gender politics are more capable than those that do.

the_gipsy 3y ago
Unbalanced pool of interested candidates is a factor, that's true, but the lack of interest is again a "boys club" syndrome from as early as school. And it's not like this "boys club" only happens at school stage and goes away at the workplace stage. There are some physical jobs that have some gender bias due to their physicality. Software development is not one of them. This is like debating e.g. covid deniers or whatever nutjobs you will, not worth my time but not evidence fearing.

notyofriend 3y ago

At a working level boys clubs work well. The culture dives commotion and high levels of cooperation. The problem often arises in management where the Alpha male gets promoted but doesn’t actually have the organizational skills to handle delicate problems or manage work effectively. The resulting management culture becomes toxic and unproductive quickly. For a short while diverse leadership and management structure was an indicator that companies were promoting based on competence. But once someone realized that that was the case companies started stuffing the pool to pretend they were promoting competency without actually doing that.