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I knew there were climate skeptics, but this is the first time I encounter such lunacy in the wild. Let me ask you this - the US economic boom is largely attri

I knew there were climate skeptics, but this is the first time I encounter such lunacy in the wild. Let me ask you this - the US economic boom is largely attributable to slavery and WW2 decimating its rivals and forcing them to agree to quasi-vassality. Should we bring back slavery and start a new world war? So that it's "fair" for the developing countries?

wheelerof4te 3y ago
"the US economic boom is largely attributable to slavery and WW2 decimating its rivals and forcing them to agree to quasi-vassality. Should we bring back slavery and start a new world war? So that it's "fair" for the developing countries?" Ah, another strawman I have to argue on the internet. I did not say that, so don't put it in my mouth, please. Tell me why you think that things science already confirmed are "lunacy" to you?
- adamlett 3y ago
  Asking you to consider an analogous situation is hardly the same as claiming you said anything you didn’t.
  - wheelerof4te 3y ago
    The US did benefit from slavery and the fact that most of Europe ended up destroyed in WWII. However, it did not use green energy to build up its huge industry. It used fossil fuels. If it did use carbon-free energy sources, I would have agreed and wouldn't be such a climate-change skeptic now.
inglor_cz 3y ago
Not an American, so I don't really want to engage in your culture wars, but still... your comment is very Chomsky-ite. The slavery part is questionable. While slavery made money for the slave owners, the South as a whole was poor and couldn't keep up with the North when it came to actual economic activity. That is why they lost their war of survival. Looking at other slave-owning societies of the 1800s, none can be described as particularly rich today. One of the reasons why slavery died out in the Western world was that it was becoming uneconomical in a world that was shifting from agriculture to industry. Even the Nazis often lost money on their slave-operated industries; people are just too clever not to be able to sabotage such subtle operations if they hate you enough. Slavery is really only economically efficient in sex, back-breaking work in the fields or mines, or possibly household help. "Quasi-vassality" is a Putinesque formulation. Neither Japan nor Germany are in any sense of the word American vassal states. They are kept in the American-led coalition mostly by their self-interest, because taking part in a global trade network is, for industrial powers like those two, much preferable to not doing so. And if they find any American political or military action questionable, they stay out of it, unlike actual vassals, who were usually compelled to provide manpower for their liege's wars. Neither Japan nor Germany engaged themselves in Vietnam or Iraq, for example.
- wheelerof4te 3y ago
  "Neither Japan nor Germany are in any sense of the word American vassal states." Both states harbor huge US military bases. Bases that were established after literal military occupation and not by choice. It's safe to say that they can't truly be free and choose their own policies. By definition, they are both occupied states.
  - nec4b 3y ago
    Which they want to have out of their self interest and not because they are forced too. And no, they are not occupied by any definition. Ukraine is an example of a country which is partially occupied by a foreign force.
  - inglor_cz 3y ago
    There is something like 40 thousand American soldiers in Germany. Way, way too little to influence actual policy of a rich country with > 80 million people. I speak German and I can guarantee you that American military presence has approximately zero influence on German politics. This is not how an "occupied" country works. You know how an occupied country looks like? Like Czechoslovakia after 1968. The Soviet troops were permanently stationed there to cow our own Communists into submission to the Moscow line. Once it became clear that Gorbachev was no longer willing to actually use them for this purpose, the regime disintegrated within a few years.
    - wheelerof4te 3y ago
      "I speak German and I can guarantee you that American military presence has approximately zero influence on German politics." Then why the fuck did they put sanctions on Russia? Why the fuck did they agree to buy a much more expensive liquid gas from the US when they had a cheaper alternative that allowed them to have such a great economy? And why did they not react when Nord Stream pipelines, the source of that cheap gas, got blown up? What, they just sucked it up and said "hell, it's worth it, at least Russia is bad!"? They tanked their own economy because Uncle Sam told them to do so, and not a single rational decision has ever been made by the German government since February 2022.

wheelerof4te 3y ago

"the US economic boom is largely attributable to slavery and WW2 decimating its rivals and forcing them to agree to quasi-vassality. Should we bring back slavery and start a new world war? So that it's "fair" for the developing countries?" Ah, another strawman I have to argue on the internet. I did not say that, so don't put it in my mouth, please. Tell me why you think that things science already confirmed are "lunacy" to you?

adamlett 3y ago
Asking you to consider an analogous situation is hardly the same as claiming you said anything you didn’t.
- wheelerof4te 3y ago
  The US did benefit from slavery and the fact that most of Europe ended up destroyed in WWII. However, it did not use green energy to build up its huge industry. It used fossil fuels. If it did use carbon-free energy sources, I would have agreed and wouldn't be such a climate-change skeptic now.

inglor_cz 3y ago

Not an American, so I don't really want to engage in your culture wars, but still... your comment is very Chomsky-ite. The slavery part is questionable. While slavery made money for the slave owners, the South as a whole was poor and couldn't keep up with the North when it came to actual economic activity. That is why they lost their war of survival. Looking at other slave-owning societies of the 1800s, none can be described as particularly rich today. One of the reasons why slavery died out in the Western world was that it was becoming uneconomical in a world that was shifting from agriculture to industry. Even the Nazis often lost money on their slave-operated industries; people are just too clever not to be able to sabotage such subtle operations if they hate you enough. Slavery is really only economically efficient in sex, back-breaking work in the fields or mines, or possibly household help. "Quasi-vassality" is a Putinesque formulation. Neither Japan nor Germany are in any sense of the word American vassal states. They are kept in the American-led coalition mostly by their self-interest, because taking part in a global trade network is, for industrial powers like those two, much preferable to not doing so. And if they find any American political or military action questionable, they stay out of it, unlike actual vassals, who were usually compelled to provide manpower for their liege's wars. Neither Japan nor Germany engaged themselves in Vietnam or Iraq, for example.

wheelerof4te 3y ago
"Neither Japan nor Germany are in any sense of the word American vassal states." Both states harbor huge US military bases. Bases that were established after literal military occupation and not by choice. It's safe to say that they can't truly be free and choose their own policies. By definition, they are both occupied states.
- nec4b 3y ago
  Which they want to have out of their self interest and not because they are forced too. And no, they are not occupied by any definition. Ukraine is an example of a country which is partially occupied by a foreign force.
- inglor_cz 3y ago
  There is something like 40 thousand American soldiers in Germany. Way, way too little to influence actual policy of a rich country with > 80 million people. I speak German and I can guarantee you that American military presence has approximately zero influence on German politics. This is not how an "occupied" country works. You know how an occupied country looks like? Like Czechoslovakia after 1968. The Soviet troops were permanently stationed there to cow our own Communists into submission to the Moscow line. Once it became clear that Gorbachev was no longer willing to actually use them for this purpose, the regime disintegrated within a few years.
  - wheelerof4te 3y ago
    "I speak German and I can guarantee you that American military presence has approximately zero influence on German politics." Then why the fuck did they put sanctions on Russia? Why the fuck did they agree to buy a much more expensive liquid gas from the US when they had a cheaper alternative that allowed them to have such a great economy? And why did they not react when Nord Stream pipelines, the source of that cheap gas, got blown up? What, they just sucked it up and said "hell, it's worth it, at least Russia is bad!"? They tanked their own economy because Uncle Sam told them to do so, and not a single rational decision has ever been made by the German government since February 2022.