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From one of the posts > The Gta team had loads of outspoken characters on it. Most teams were quietly getting on with stuff but this wasn't the way at gta. The

• agbrrw 3y ago
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  • paulryanrogers 3y ago
    Because they were boys clubs? Or survivor bias and in spite of their demographics? IME the only consistency I noticed among boys clubs is bullies rule and out groups are mocked.
    • asylteltine 3y ago
      From my personal experiences, yes because they were boys clubs. But not because they were men, because they weren’t pc or driven by diversity. It would be great if the “boys club” was 50% women, as long as it wasn’t like a modern Ubisoft dev team that looks like an HRs wet dream. The end result are sterile boring games that aren’t funny or interesting. Remember when you could make jokes?
      • pests 3y ago
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        • fodkodrasz 3y ago
          Wow you manage to mix ad hominem, and anecdotal evidence, based on a fiction tale made by current mainstream propaganda industry! "Remember the time when American people had decent education and could use other reasoning than references to TV/streaming series?"
          • pests 3y ago
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            • fodkodrasz 3y ago
              > Where is the ad hominem? implicit comparison of GP to an unspecified made up character making racist comments > I'm not even going to argue with you. I see, because you brought no valid arguments in your comment. > Now where is your god? This phrase alone proves that discussing anything with you is of no use. Have a nice day.
              • pests 3y ago
                > implicit comparison of GP to an unspecified made up character making racist comments The guy is implying he can't make jokes anymore because the jokes he wants to make are no longer politically correct, aka racist or sexist or whatever else. Yes I'm going to compare it to times when people lemented they could no longer be racist. What? > This phrase alone proves that discussing anything with you is of no use. It was a joke.
          • bradjohnson 3y ago
            >Remember the time when American people had decent education and could use other reasoning than references to [popular media] No. Do you?
        • moduspol 3y ago
      • skyyler 3y ago
        I have no problem making jokes in the workplace. Maybe it’s the content of your jokes that are the problem?
      • bradjohnson 3y ago
        Isn't it funny that the least funny people always complain about their inability to make jokes anymore? Plus the misattribution of watered-down safe products from corporations as being because they're "pc or driven by diversity" instead of driven by profits and avoiding controversy because it would hurt their bottom line. It's like saying that babies are to blame for bad children's programming.
        • lelanthran 3y ago
          > Isn't it funny that the least funny people always complain about their inability to make jokes anymore? Maybe you really don't know, but John Cleese is considered extremely funny, and has been for decades: https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2022/oct/10/john-cleese-host-gb-news-show-cancel-culture https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2022/oct/10/john-cleese-... Bill Burr is also widely regarded as a good comedian, making funny jokes: https://actorsareidiots.com/bill-burr-people-taking-offense-is-ruining-comedy/ https://actorsareidiots.com/bill-burr-people-taking-offense-... Dave Chappelle made a similar complaint (that he will not be changing his material to bend to some people's demands) and is also widely regarded as funny: https://www.npr.org/2021/10/25/1049113893/dave-chappelle-response-netflix-special-lgbtq https://www.npr.org/2021/10/25/1049113893/dave-chappelle-res... How about someone who is not widely known, but still considered quite highly as a funny person? Here's what she literally said: "Jokes used to be accepted as jokes [...] Morality police now dictate what we can and can’t say. " - https://www.chortle.co.uk/correspondents/2023/02/10/52508/goodbye_comedy,_i_wont_miss_all_of_you_self-censoring_wimps https://www.chortle.co.uk/correspondents/2023/02/10/52508/go... Yup, the actual funny people are complaining that they can't make actual jokes anymore: https://www.hollywoodintoto.com/comedians-online-censorship-dore-long-polishchuk/ https://www.hollywoodintoto.com/comedians-online-censorship-... I feel you should think long and hard before making a statement as orthogonal to reality as "The least funny people complain about their inability to make jokes".
          • bradjohnson 3y ago
            I think you're really missing the point, so I'm not going to go source my anecdote about regular people in a conversation about boys clubs in the office. I've summed it up quite thoroughly throughout this thread. If we really want to talk about these actual comedians (who are all very funny in their own right), I would say that Bill Burr is a snowflake who had a bad set, Dave Chappelle should really learn to not make jokes at the expense of people who are currently facing severe systemic oppression, and John Cleese is an over-reacting octogenarian, far past his prime and aligning himself with an anti-vax fake news network; not the arbiter of truth you think he is. They aren't coming across as particularly sympathetic to me, and the comedy scene will forget them if they're not able to adapt their material to a changing generation. Comedy is temporally bound and what is good comedy changes over time. People find different things funny, so there should be a diversity of choice in comedy. I've been to sets that I personally didn't find funny, but the audience was locals with a different sense of humour than me and they loved it. It wasn't bad, just not my style, but it didn't operate at the expense of someone else. I've been to sets where the comedian on stage floundered and lashed out at the audience for being too sensitive, and the next comedian killed it without being 'sensitive' to the audience, just by being funny. Here are some funny comedians that I've seen this year that managed to not be transphobic or align themselves with conspiracy theories about vaccinations: - Arthur Simeon - The Lucas Brothers - Malik Elassal - Alonzo Bodden - Joyelle Nicole Johnson - Fortune Feimster - Steph Tolev Plus a bunch of others that I can't remember off the top of my head. Check them out if you care to. I don't think any of them are complaining that they can't be funny anymore, they're doing just fine, and I think they're bringing fresh comedy to the scene. In my opinion, if the old guard wants to show themselves out because they feel like they can't compete, they should feel free to.
      • DonHopkins 3y ago
        2014 called. They want you back to help them coordinate harassing, doxing, and threatening to rape women for Gamergate. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamergate_(harassment_campaign) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamergate_(harassment_campaign...
      • averageRoyalty 3y ago
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        • paulryanrogers 3y ago
          That's a generous interpretation of the comment. IME "boys clubs" are largely a negative phenomenon I'd rather my loved ones avoid, or at least evaluate critically.
          • averageRoyalty 3y ago
            Granted, I'm not saying it's a positive term or the one we should keep using, but it is the one we've ended up with.
    • account42 3y ago
      Because they didn't care about being a boys club or not and just focused on making games instead.
  • parthianshotgun 3y ago
    You're looking at the egg but ignoring the chicken
  • deleted 3y ago
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  • the_gipsy 3y ago
    Boys clubs give seats to some incompetent boys just because they are "boys". It follows that there would be a smaller amount of incompetent people if it was not a boys club. You shouldn't thank boys clubs if you enjoyed those games - there could have been more, better games.
    • agbrrw 3y ago
      Non-boys clubs give seats to incompetent workers to increase percentages in a report. Boys clubs can hire whoever is more capable with no regard to those percentages.
      • the_gipsy 3y ago
        You must either acknowledge that boy clubs are more incompetent, or that you believe that boys are inherently more competent. In the latter case there is no point in discussing further.
        • account42 3y ago
          Those are not the only two options. For example if the distribution of interested candiates is already skewed towards one gender then forcing gender quotas means you need to hire inferior candiates even if both genders have the same distribution of capability. That said, not only discounting that either gender could be better at certain jobs but refusing to talk to someone because you suspect that may be their opinion is beyond absurd and that kind of politicized gut-based and evidence-fearing thinking may be another reason why organizations that don't pay attention to gender politics are more capable than those that do.
          • the_gipsy 3y ago
            Unbalanced pool of interested candidates is a factor, that's true, but the lack of interest is again a "boys club" syndrome from as early as school. And it's not like this "boys club" only happens at school stage and goes away at the workplace stage. There are some physical jobs that have some gender bias due to their physicality. Software development is not one of them. This is like debating e.g. covid deniers or whatever nutjobs you will, not worth my time but not evidence fearing.
  • aitechguy77171 3y ago
    Not just games. Movies, inventions, civilizations. I'd say books but authorship only requires one boy, generally. Oh, and all those boys come from just a few regions of the world too (Southern Europe, Eastern Asia) for some odd reason, I wonder why?
  • DonHopkins 3y ago
    The Sims is one of the top selling and most profitable game franchises of all time, the original and current teams were anything but a boys club, and it had and has a lot of women and LGBTQ+ developers and artists working on it and players playing it. And it was around and successful long before your precious Gamergate.
    • Gibbon1 3y ago
      Working on the Sim's was the best job my GF ever had.
  • op00to 3y ago
    Imagine if they picked the best talent and not simply the best talent that tolerates a locker room environment. How good would the game be then?
  • DonHopkins 3y ago
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