8 ms·

Some of those "OGs" must be really full of themselves if they think a few superficial 20-year-old development stories are "ruining the Rockstar mystique".

by V__ 3y ago

Crosseye_Jack 3y ago
From one of the posts > The Gta team had loads of outspoken characters on it. Most teams were quietly getting on with stuff but this wasn't the way at gta. There were arguments and tempers would flare at times. Maybe colourful people were what was needed to think it was a good idea to make the player a criminal. and IIRC it was around 2018 when we started hearing about what it was like to work at Rockstar, it was basically a boys club, so the news of the OGs thinking 20-year-old development stories are "ruining the Rockstar mystique" doesn't surprise me at all. https://kotaku.com/former-rockstar-designer-says-former-top-executive-grop-1835067943 https://kotaku.com/former-rockstar-designer-says-former-top-... https://www.businessinsider.com/rockstar-games-controversy-explained-red-dead-redemption-2-crunch-culture-2018-10 https://www.businessinsider.com/rockstar-games-controversy-e...
- agbrrw 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - paulryanrogers 3y ago
    Because they were boys clubs? Or survivor bias and in spite of their demographics? IME the only consistency I noticed among boys clubs is bullies rule and out groups are mocked.
    - asylteltine 3y ago
      From my personal experiences, yes because they were boys clubs. But not because they were men, because they weren’t pc or driven by diversity. It would be great if the “boys club” was 50% women, as long as it wasn’t like a modern Ubisoft dev team that looks like an HRs wet dream. The end result are sterile boring games that aren’t funny or interesting. Remember when you could make jokes?
      - pests 3y ago
        [flagged]
        fodkodrasz 3y ago
        Wow you manage to mix ad hominem, and anecdotal evidence, based on a fiction tale made by current mainstream propaganda industry! "Remember the time when American people had decent education and could use other reasoning than references to TV/streaming series?"
        pests 3y ago
        [flagged]
        fodkodrasz 3y ago
        > Where is the ad hominem? implicit comparison of GP to an unspecified made up character making racist comments > I'm not even going to argue with you. I see, because you brought no valid arguments in your comment. > Now where is your god? This phrase alone proves that discussing anything with you is of no use. Have a nice day.
        pests 3y ago
        > implicit comparison of GP to an unspecified made up character making racist comments The guy is implying he can't make jokes anymore because the jokes he wants to make are no longer politically correct, aka racist or sexist or whatever else. Yes I'm going to compare it to times when people lemented they could no longer be racist. What? > This phrase alone proves that discussing anything with you is of no use. It was a joke.
        bradjohnson 3y ago
        >Remember the time when American people had decent education and could use other reasoning than references to [popular media] No. Do you?
    - account42 3y ago
      Because they didn't care about being a boys club or not and just focused on making games instead.
  - parthianshotgun 3y ago
    You're looking at the egg but ignoring the chicken
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - the_gipsy 3y ago
    Boys clubs give seats to some incompetent boys just because they are "boys". It follows that there would be a smaller amount of incompetent people if it was not a boys club. You shouldn't thank boys clubs if you enjoyed those games - there could have been more, better games.
    - agbrrw 3y ago
      Non-boys clubs give seats to incompetent workers to increase percentages in a report. Boys clubs can hire whoever is more capable with no regard to those percentages.
      - the_gipsy 3y ago
        You must either acknowledge that boy clubs are more incompetent, or that you believe that boys are inherently more competent. In the latter case there is no point in discussing further.
        account42 3y ago
        Those are not the only two options. For example if the distribution of interested candiates is already skewed towards one gender then forcing gender quotas means you need to hire inferior candiates even if both genders have the same distribution of capability. That said, not only discounting that either gender could be better at certain jobs but refusing to talk to someone because you suspect that may be their opinion is beyond absurd and that kind of politicized gut-based and evidence-fearing thinking may be another reason why organizations that don't pay attention to gender politics are more capable than those that do.
        the_gipsy 3y ago
        Unbalanced pool of interested candidates is a factor, that's true, but the lack of interest is again a "boys club" syndrome from as early as school. And it's not like this "boys club" only happens at school stage and goes away at the workplace stage. There are some physical jobs that have some gender bias due to their physicality. Software development is not one of them. This is like debating e.g. covid deniers or whatever nutjobs you will, not worth my time but not evidence fearing.
  - aitechguy77171 3y ago
    Not just games. Movies, inventions, civilizations. I'd say books but authorship only requires one boy, generally. Oh, and all those boys come from just a few regions of the world too (Southern Europe, Eastern Asia) for some odd reason, I wonder why?
  - DonHopkins 3y ago
    The Sims is one of the top selling and most profitable game franchises of all time, the original and current teams were anything but a boys club, and it had and has a lot of women and LGBTQ+ developers and artists working on it and players playing it. And it was around and successful long before your precious Gamergate.
    - Gibbon1 3y ago
      Working on the Sim's was the best job my GF ever had.
  - op00to 3y ago
    Imagine if they picked the best talent and not simply the best talent that tolerates a locker room environment. How good would the game be then?
  - DonHopkins 3y ago
    [flagged]
isthatafact 3y ago
Another part of the "rockstar mystique" is who received the billions of dollars in "internal royalties" that has been diverted from the revenue stream over the years. Wikipedia mentions a legal dispute between 3 people (2 Housers and Benzies) splitting royalties, so I assume that normal employees see little to none of it. The secretive weirdness and unfairness of the whole thing convinced me not to own their parent company stock (take-two interactive).

Some of those "OGs" must be really full of themselves if they think a few superficial 20-year-old development stories are "ruining the Rockstar mystique".

by V__ 3y ago

Some of those "OGs" must be really full of themselves if they think a few superficial 20-year-old development stories are "ruining the Rockstar mystique".

Crosseye_Jack 3y ago

From one of the posts > The Gta team had loads of outspoken characters on it. Most teams were quietly getting on with stuff but this wasn't the way at gta. There were arguments and tempers would flare at times. Maybe colourful people were what was needed to think it was a good idea to make the player a criminal. and IIRC it was around 2018 when we started hearing about what it was like to work at Rockstar, it was basically a boys club, so the news of the OGs thinking 20-year-old development stories are "ruining the Rockstar mystique" doesn't surprise me at all. https://kotaku.com/former-rockstar-designer-says-former-top-executive-grop-1835067943 https://kotaku.com/former-rockstar-designer-says-former-top-... https://www.businessinsider.com/rockstar-games-controversy-explained-red-dead-redemption-2-crunch-culture-2018-10 https://www.businessinsider.com/rockstar-games-controversy-e...

agbrrw 3y ago
[flagged]
- paulryanrogers 3y ago
  Because they were boys clubs? Or survivor bias and in spite of their demographics? IME the only consistency I noticed among boys clubs is bullies rule and out groups are mocked.
  - asylteltine 3y ago
    From my personal experiences, yes because they were boys clubs. But not because they were men, because they weren’t pc or driven by diversity. It would be great if the “boys club” was 50% women, as long as it wasn’t like a modern Ubisoft dev team that looks like an HRs wet dream. The end result are sterile boring games that aren’t funny or interesting. Remember when you could make jokes?
    - pests 3y ago
      [flagged]
      - fodkodrasz 3y ago
        Wow you manage to mix ad hominem, and anecdotal evidence, based on a fiction tale made by current mainstream propaganda industry! "Remember the time when American people had decent education and could use other reasoning than references to TV/streaming series?"
        pests 3y ago
        [flagged]
        fodkodrasz 3y ago
        > Where is the ad hominem? implicit comparison of GP to an unspecified made up character making racist comments > I'm not even going to argue with you. I see, because you brought no valid arguments in your comment. > Now where is your god? This phrase alone proves that discussing anything with you is of no use. Have a nice day.
        pests 3y ago
        > implicit comparison of GP to an unspecified made up character making racist comments The guy is implying he can't make jokes anymore because the jokes he wants to make are no longer politically correct, aka racist or sexist or whatever else. Yes I'm going to compare it to times when people lemented they could no longer be racist. What? > This phrase alone proves that discussing anything with you is of no use. It was a joke.
        bradjohnson 3y ago
        >Remember the time when American people had decent education and could use other reasoning than references to [popular media] No. Do you?
  - account42 3y ago
    Because they didn't care about being a boys club or not and just focused on making games instead.
- parthianshotgun 3y ago
  You're looking at the egg but ignoring the chicken
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- the_gipsy 3y ago
  Boys clubs give seats to some incompetent boys just because they are "boys". It follows that there would be a smaller amount of incompetent people if it was not a boys club. You shouldn't thank boys clubs if you enjoyed those games - there could have been more, better games.
  - agbrrw 3y ago
    Non-boys clubs give seats to incompetent workers to increase percentages in a report. Boys clubs can hire whoever is more capable with no regard to those percentages.
    - the_gipsy 3y ago
      You must either acknowledge that boy clubs are more incompetent, or that you believe that boys are inherently more competent. In the latter case there is no point in discussing further.
      - account42 3y ago
        Those are not the only two options. For example if the distribution of interested candiates is already skewed towards one gender then forcing gender quotas means you need to hire inferior candiates even if both genders have the same distribution of capability. That said, not only discounting that either gender could be better at certain jobs but refusing to talk to someone because you suspect that may be their opinion is beyond absurd and that kind of politicized gut-based and evidence-fearing thinking may be another reason why organizations that don't pay attention to gender politics are more capable than those that do.
        the_gipsy 3y ago
        Unbalanced pool of interested candidates is a factor, that's true, but the lack of interest is again a "boys club" syndrome from as early as school. And it's not like this "boys club" only happens at school stage and goes away at the workplace stage. There are some physical jobs that have some gender bias due to their physicality. Software development is not one of them. This is like debating e.g. covid deniers or whatever nutjobs you will, not worth my time but not evidence fearing.
- aitechguy77171 3y ago
  Not just games. Movies, inventions, civilizations. I'd say books but authorship only requires one boy, generally. Oh, and all those boys come from just a few regions of the world too (Southern Europe, Eastern Asia) for some odd reason, I wonder why?
- DonHopkins 3y ago
  The Sims is one of the top selling and most profitable game franchises of all time, the original and current teams were anything but a boys club, and it had and has a lot of women and LGBTQ+ developers and artists working on it and players playing it. And it was around and successful long before your precious Gamergate.
  - Gibbon1 3y ago
    Working on the Sim's was the best job my GF ever had.
- op00to 3y ago
  Imagine if they picked the best talent and not simply the best talent that tolerates a locker room environment. How good would the game be then?
- DonHopkins 3y ago
  [flagged]

isthatafact 3y ago

Another part of the "rockstar mystique" is who received the billions of dollars in "internal royalties" that has been diverted from the revenue stream over the years. Wikipedia mentions a legal dispute between 3 people (2 Housers and Benzies) splitting royalties, so I assume that normal employees see little to none of it. The secretive weirdness and unfairness of the whole thing convinced me not to own their parent company stock (take-two interactive).