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I read this article a few days ago and was shocked that something like this could occur. At the same time, all the tickets referenced by ProPublica were very cl

I read this article a few days ago and was shocked that something like this could occur. At the same time, all the tickets referenced by ProPublica were very clear cases of speeding: - "A ticket for 81 in a 50" - "61 mph in a 50 mph zone" - "driving 71 mph in a 50" - "65 in a 50 mph zone" It does not seem as though ProPublica was able to pull any cases where drivers were just a few mph over the limit. The mayor definitely should not be the judge. The town should not be threatening people with license revocations, either. But you could say that Fenton just really cares about public safety. The solution here is pretty simple-- watch the road and follow the speed limit. I also don't know why the state is still processing license suspensions from Fenton. Louisiana should simply stop processing these requests.

ZeroGravitas 3y ago
Relevant context: > That enforcement is particularly active on the north side of town, where U.S. Route 165 shifts from a divided highway to a five-lane road. Just before drivers reach a welcome sign, the speed limit drops from 65 mph to 50. Police cruisers often wait nearby, in a stand of trees across from a small roadside cemetery.
- danielfoster 3y ago
  I considered this as well before writing my comment and it's a very good point. Keep in mind that half the tickets cited in the article were over 65 mph, so they also would have been above the speed limit even without the change. The disappearance of the divider and merging of the traffic lanes, which drivers should be able to see well ahead of time, are also very clear indicators that they are entering a town and should slow down. Louisiana has many small highways like Route 165 where the speed limit changes in towns. Having grown up in the state, I know of many speed traps like Fenton. Most people would know to reduce their speed. However, Louisiana has little traffic enforcement in general and speeding on rural roads is very common. The state should definitely put up more signs outside the town warning them to slow down. More warnings should be issued rather than tickets as well. But Louisiana also needs to improve its driving.
  - WesolyKubeczek 3y ago
    From your description, it sounds much like 90% of Poland except your roads are way too wide (and thus welcome drivers to go at a higher speed). Gosh, how we even survive here, every town is a speed trap town!
    - dizhn 3y ago
      They are scary too with their HUGE man size binoculars waiting for you. By the way. Poland. The only place on earth I ever got ticketed for jaywalking.
  - Brybry 3y ago
    The best fix would probably be to change the roads to prevent the speed limit drop in the first place. RS 32:61 [1] mandates a speed limit drop there (though only to 55) because it goes from multilane divided highway to multilane highway. A frontage road, and merge/exit lanes as needed, and keep it divided highway the whole way and then it's no longer an issue. We use highways and interstates as main streets way too much in Louisiana. [1] https://legis.la.gov/Legis/Law.aspx?p=y&d=88480 https://legis.la.gov/Legis/Law.aspx?p=y&d=88480
    - Symbiote 3y ago
      65mph traffic through a village is noisy, and makes it more difficult to cross the road as a pedestrian. There's also a railroad, cemetery and several buildings in the way of expanding the road.
      - Luc 3y ago
        That's more than 100 km/h. Without traffic lights that's not safe to cross as a pedestrian.
        alwayslikethis 3y ago
        It's also rather unsafe to have traffic lights at all at such speeds. It's really hard to stop at 100 km/h.
- pulse7 3y ago
  Is this here https://www.google.com/maps/@30.375952,-92.9118031,3a,48.6y,220.95h,78.8t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sPsVhT3bovDJ_jbKmFDbtmA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu https://www.google.com/maps/@30.375952,-92.9118031,3a,48.6y,... ?
  - danielfoster 3y ago
    Yes, good find!
    - Symbiote 3y ago
      There's also a "Speed limit 50 ahead" warning sign further back up the road. https://www.google.com/maps/@30.3778051,-92.9108282,3a,75y,211.68h,80.76t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sF0vGZzdCgJbYbxX9wb0SSQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu https://www.google.com/maps/@30.3778051,-92.9108282,3a,75y,2...
      - danielfoster 3y ago
        Then it is very clear. I am a major fan of ProPublica, but I feel like they were too biased here and were trying too hard to write a good story.
        pas 3y ago
        straight road, no reason to go suddenly slower, the sign is completely irrelevant. drivers are not robots, if they get a good reason to slow down, they will. (eg. Waze telling them a speedtrap or patrol car is there ... or some actual traffic reason.)
        Symbiote 3y ago
        There is a village ahead, that's plenty of reason to slow down. The two pairs of signs are another reason. The end of the divided highway is further reason.
- genewitch 3y ago
  I don't even need to look this up to know where it is*. All of the "highway" style roads throughout louisiana (and TX as far as i've seen) do this, ~65MPH with constant braking to get down to 30-50MPH through little towns. I'm sure i there are such things in CA, as well, on US-101 or 1; i just don't remember them being a major part of any commute between cities. *i was wrong! It wasn't Woodworth (on US-165 near Alexandria), it is Fenton, on US-165 near Lake Charles. 165 is fairly well known for being a ticket magnet highway around these parts, so an easy mistake to make. Also, US-165 through alexandria has a speed limit of 50-60 MPH and is multiple lanes. This feels different than having to go ~30MPH on a 3 lane with a huge median, like in Woodworth, Glenmora, etc.
Brybry 3y ago
I think this actually occurs a fair amount. Google something like "$stateName speed trap town". Sometimes there is reform[1] for the egregious offenders[2] with enough media coverage (and it probably helps when they ticket the wrong person's relative). [1] https://www.al.com/news/2022/04/inside-the-remarkable-rise-and-fall-of-alabamas-most-predatory-police-force.html https://www.al.com/news/2022/04/inside-the-remarkable-rise-a... [2] https://www.al.com/news/2022/01/police-in-this-tiny-alabama-town-suck-drivers-into-legal-black-hole.html https://www.al.com/news/2022/01/police-in-this-tiny-alabama-...
mcv 3y ago
> But you could say that Fenton just really cares about public safety. If they really care about public safety, they would design their traffic situations so that people are less likely to speed. You can do a lot with clever traffic design, and it's more effective than simply fining everybody. But of course that costs money rather than bringing it in. Considering traffic fines are their primary source of income, I think they strongly prefer unsafe driving over safe driving.
- inglor_cz 3y ago
  "If they really care about public safety, they would design their traffic situations so that people are less likely to speed. You can do a lot with clever traffic design, and it's more effective than simply fining everybody." It is effective, but it might also be unpopular enough with the locals that you lose the next election. Especially if the measures inconvenience them. I think the incentive for cities such as Fenton is a bit more specific: they want to fine unsuspecting strangers, who don't vote in local elections, while not bothering the locals too much. You can interpret this as a modern, legal version of ye olde highwaymen. But there is a catch: transiting traffic is a genuine local problem (exhalations, noise, not contributing to local economy), so the incentive to make some money on it isn't as completely evil as it would be otherwise.
  - mcv 3y ago
    Maybe less highwaymen and more a local baron suddenly levying a toll on a major road. That sort of thing happened a lot, and never failed to upset merchants who would protest with a higher authority. Except in this case there's a random aspect to the toll, and you can avoid the toll by knowing the situation and lowering your speed in time. I'm pretty sure the locals are all familiar with the situation and know how to avoid these fines.
- ldoughty 3y ago
  I looked it up ... The town is basically a 2x6 street grid with 40-50 homes on either side of a large pass through route & railway. The typical adult living here makes in the ballpark of $20,000 a year and has a kid. I don't think the town will pool together money anytime soon for a public works project.
tromp 3y ago
> It does not seem as though ProPublica was able to pull any cases where drivers were just a few mph over the limit. As the article mentions that's the policy: > tickets are rarely issued unless drivers are going more than 11 mph over the limit, he said.
rambambram 3y ago
> The mayor definitely should not be the judge. This is the big part. Ever heard of trias politica?
codethief 3y ago
> The mayor definitely should not be the judge. How is such a thing even possible/legal? Checks and balances and so on.
HenryBemis 3y ago
I drive around Europe, frequently and great distances. The ONLY country where I got a speeding ticket three times in three years is Latvia. My tickets are all by "a little faster" (15km/h or so, not doing 150 on a 50 zone) They got (imho) the lowest speed limits in any of the countries I've travelled, cameras everywhere (that's good though), and even on their "motorways" (imagine crappy roads in the US in the 60s, but worse) the limit is something silly like 60km/h. So for anyone that is simple crossing through the country (N-S Estonia-->Latvia-->Lithuania or S-N) it is a nerve breaking experience to be forced to drive 30-60km/h while CROSSING A WHOLE (small) country. When I read the article I thought exactly that. Shitty country, shitty roads, shitty speed limits, it's as if they do it on purpose to fine every foreigner and they don't upgrade their infrastructure.. How will that country ever prosper when any/all transportation has to go with 30km/h? Well played Latvia.. you are the Fenton of the Europe!
- uxp8u61q 3y ago
  15 km/h is not "a little bit faster", WTF.
  - varjag 3y ago
    Depends on the speed limit really. In a 90 zone it's a poor habit but common throughout Europe. In a 30, it's in the goodbye driving license territory over here.
    - uxp8u61q 3y ago
      I live in western Europe. Doing 105 in a 90 zone is not a common habit. When I'm going 90 in a 90, very few people go faster than me, and when they pass me, usually everyone in the car goes "holy shit look at these maniacs". And energy is quadratic with respect to velocity. Going 90->105 is worse than 30->45. The only difference is that a 30 zone is usually a densely populated area, so the risks are different.
      - dagw 3y ago
        Which country? That does not match my view of any Western European country I've lived or driven in.
EGreg 3y ago
Oh that’s disappointing, I would have enjoyed being reminded of this episode of Boy Meets World: https://youtu.be/864PunevIxY?si=Xl7Tgi_CUIpWDmtw https://youtu.be/864PunevIxY?si=Xl7Tgi_CUIpWDmtw Spoiler: the mayor was the judge

ZeroGravitas 3y ago

Relevant context: > That enforcement is particularly active on the north side of town, where U.S. Route 165 shifts from a divided highway to a five-lane road. Just before drivers reach a welcome sign, the speed limit drops from 65 mph to 50. Police cruisers often wait nearby, in a stand of trees across from a small roadside cemetery.

danielfoster 3y ago
I considered this as well before writing my comment and it's a very good point. Keep in mind that half the tickets cited in the article were over 65 mph, so they also would have been above the speed limit even without the change. The disappearance of the divider and merging of the traffic lanes, which drivers should be able to see well ahead of time, are also very clear indicators that they are entering a town and should slow down. Louisiana has many small highways like Route 165 where the speed limit changes in towns. Having grown up in the state, I know of many speed traps like Fenton. Most people would know to reduce their speed. However, Louisiana has little traffic enforcement in general and speeding on rural roads is very common. The state should definitely put up more signs outside the town warning them to slow down. More warnings should be issued rather than tickets as well. But Louisiana also needs to improve its driving.
- WesolyKubeczek 3y ago
  From your description, it sounds much like 90% of Poland except your roads are way too wide (and thus welcome drivers to go at a higher speed). Gosh, how we even survive here, every town is a speed trap town!
  - dizhn 3y ago
    They are scary too with their HUGE man size binoculars waiting for you. By the way. Poland. The only place on earth I ever got ticketed for jaywalking.
- Brybry 3y ago
  The best fix would probably be to change the roads to prevent the speed limit drop in the first place. RS 32:61 [1] mandates a speed limit drop there (though only to 55) because it goes from multilane divided highway to multilane highway. A frontage road, and merge/exit lanes as needed, and keep it divided highway the whole way and then it's no longer an issue. We use highways and interstates as main streets way too much in Louisiana. [1] https://legis.la.gov/Legis/Law.aspx?p=y&d=88480 https://legis.la.gov/Legis/Law.aspx?p=y&d=88480
  - Symbiote 3y ago
    65mph traffic through a village is noisy, and makes it more difficult to cross the road as a pedestrian. There's also a railroad, cemetery and several buildings in the way of expanding the road.
    - Luc 3y ago
      That's more than 100 km/h. Without traffic lights that's not safe to cross as a pedestrian.
      - alwayslikethis 3y ago
        It's also rather unsafe to have traffic lights at all at such speeds. It's really hard to stop at 100 km/h.
pulse7 3y ago
Is this here https://www.google.com/maps/@30.375952,-92.9118031,3a,48.6y,220.95h,78.8t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sPsVhT3bovDJ_jbKmFDbtmA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu https://www.google.com/maps/@30.375952,-92.9118031,3a,48.6y,... ?
- danielfoster 3y ago
  Yes, good find!
  - Symbiote 3y ago
    There's also a "Speed limit 50 ahead" warning sign further back up the road. https://www.google.com/maps/@30.3778051,-92.9108282,3a,75y,211.68h,80.76t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sF0vGZzdCgJbYbxX9wb0SSQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu https://www.google.com/maps/@30.3778051,-92.9108282,3a,75y,2...
    - danielfoster 3y ago
      Then it is very clear. I am a major fan of ProPublica, but I feel like they were too biased here and were trying too hard to write a good story.
      - pas 3y ago
        straight road, no reason to go suddenly slower, the sign is completely irrelevant. drivers are not robots, if they get a good reason to slow down, they will. (eg. Waze telling them a speedtrap or patrol car is there ... or some actual traffic reason.)
        Symbiote 3y ago
        There is a village ahead, that's plenty of reason to slow down. The two pairs of signs are another reason. The end of the divided highway is further reason.
genewitch 3y ago
I don't even need to look this up to know where it is*. All of the "highway" style roads throughout louisiana (and TX as far as i've seen) do this, ~65MPH with constant braking to get down to 30-50MPH through little towns. I'm sure i there are such things in CA, as well, on US-101 or 1; i just don't remember them being a major part of any commute between cities. *i was wrong! It wasn't Woodworth (on US-165 near Alexandria), it is Fenton, on US-165 near Lake Charles. 165 is fairly well known for being a ticket magnet highway around these parts, so an easy mistake to make. Also, US-165 through alexandria has a speed limit of 50-60 MPH and is multiple lanes. This feels different than having to go ~30MPH on a 3 lane with a huge median, like in Woodworth, Glenmora, etc.

Brybry 3y ago

I think this actually occurs a fair amount. Google something like "$stateName speed trap town". Sometimes there is reform[1] for the egregious offenders[2] with enough media coverage (and it probably helps when they ticket the wrong person's relative). [1] https://www.al.com/news/2022/04/inside-the-remarkable-rise-and-fall-of-alabamas-most-predatory-police-force.html https://www.al.com/news/2022/04/inside-the-remarkable-rise-a... [2] https://www.al.com/news/2022/01/police-in-this-tiny-alabama-town-suck-drivers-into-legal-black-hole.html https://www.al.com/news/2022/01/police-in-this-tiny-alabama-...

mcv 3y ago

> But you could say that Fenton just really cares about public safety. If they really care about public safety, they would design their traffic situations so that people are less likely to speed. You can do a lot with clever traffic design, and it's more effective than simply fining everybody. But of course that costs money rather than bringing it in. Considering traffic fines are their primary source of income, I think they strongly prefer unsafe driving over safe driving.

inglor_cz 3y ago
"If they really care about public safety, they would design their traffic situations so that people are less likely to speed. You can do a lot with clever traffic design, and it's more effective than simply fining everybody." It is effective, but it might also be unpopular enough with the locals that you lose the next election. Especially if the measures inconvenience them. I think the incentive for cities such as Fenton is a bit more specific: they want to fine unsuspecting strangers, who don't vote in local elections, while not bothering the locals too much. You can interpret this as a modern, legal version of ye olde highwaymen. But there is a catch: transiting traffic is a genuine local problem (exhalations, noise, not contributing to local economy), so the incentive to make some money on it isn't as completely evil as it would be otherwise.
- mcv 3y ago
  Maybe less highwaymen and more a local baron suddenly levying a toll on a major road. That sort of thing happened a lot, and never failed to upset merchants who would protest with a higher authority. Except in this case there's a random aspect to the toll, and you can avoid the toll by knowing the situation and lowering your speed in time. I'm pretty sure the locals are all familiar with the situation and know how to avoid these fines.
ldoughty 3y ago
I looked it up ... The town is basically a 2x6 street grid with 40-50 homes on either side of a large pass through route & railway. The typical adult living here makes in the ballpark of $20,000 a year and has a kid. I don't think the town will pool together money anytime soon for a public works project.

tromp 3y ago

> It does not seem as though ProPublica was able to pull any cases where drivers were just a few mph over the limit. As the article mentions that's the policy: > tickets are rarely issued unless drivers are going more than 11 mph over the limit, he said.

rambambram 3y ago

> The mayor definitely should not be the judge. This is the big part. Ever heard of trias politica?

codethief 3y ago

> The mayor definitely should not be the judge. How is such a thing even possible/legal? Checks and balances and so on.

HenryBemis 3y ago

I drive around Europe, frequently and great distances. The ONLY country where I got a speeding ticket three times in three years is Latvia. My tickets are all by "a little faster" (15km/h or so, not doing 150 on a 50 zone) They got (imho) the lowest speed limits in any of the countries I've travelled, cameras everywhere (that's good though), and even on their "motorways" (imagine crappy roads in the US in the 60s, but worse) the limit is something silly like 60km/h. So for anyone that is simple crossing through the country (N-S Estonia-->Latvia-->Lithuania or S-N) it is a nerve breaking experience to be forced to drive 30-60km/h while CROSSING A WHOLE (small) country. When I read the article I thought exactly that. Shitty country, shitty roads, shitty speed limits, it's as if they do it on purpose to fine every foreigner and they don't upgrade their infrastructure.. How will that country ever prosper when any/all transportation has to go with 30km/h? Well played Latvia.. you are the Fenton of the Europe!

uxp8u61q 3y ago
15 km/h is not "a little bit faster", WTF.
- varjag 3y ago
  Depends on the speed limit really. In a 90 zone it's a poor habit but common throughout Europe. In a 30, it's in the goodbye driving license territory over here.
  - uxp8u61q 3y ago
    I live in western Europe. Doing 105 in a 90 zone is not a common habit. When I'm going 90 in a 90, very few people go faster than me, and when they pass me, usually everyone in the car goes "holy shit look at these maniacs". And energy is quadratic with respect to velocity. Going 90->105 is worse than 30->45. The only difference is that a 30 zone is usually a densely populated area, so the risks are different.
    - dagw 3y ago
      Which country? That does not match my view of any Western European country I've lived or driven in.

EGreg 3y ago

Oh that’s disappointing, I would have enjoyed being reminded of this episode of Boy Meets World: https://youtu.be/864PunevIxY?si=Xl7Tgi_CUIpWDmtw https://youtu.be/864PunevIxY?si=Xl7Tgi_CUIpWDmtw Spoiler: the mayor was the judge