7 ms·

The Most Dangerous Gamer

161 points by TDL 15y ago

sawyer 15y ago
Blow gave a talk once that I remember vivdly where he described the greatest challenge facing indie developers (applies to all products, not just games): going too slow. The average programmer can write maybe 10k lines of production ready code in a year, but a modest game the likes of Braid took ~100k LOC. In order to get it done in a reasonable amount of time you can't spend all day optimizing or constructing beautiful algorithms - you have to plow through as quickly as possible.
- angersock 15y ago
  Here's the talk in question: http://the-witness.net/news/2011/06/how-to-program-independent-games/ http://the-witness.net/news/2011/06/how-to-program-independe... In a course I took junior year of college, my project partner (now cofounder) and I worked on a zombie outbreak simulation game. Towards the height of the project, we were probably tearing up and laying down a thousand lines of code a day, keeping in touch over the phone and fixing build errors and weird behavior. Years later, I can't look at that code without wanting to gouge out my eyes. It makes me physically sick. That said, it worked and worked well for the task at hand. Game programming is weird like that, and Blow's talk has a section where he talks about the relative merits of dumb structures and algorithms for developers that just have to get the thing to work. It's an interesting perspective.
  - mirsadm 15y ago
    With games like Braid you can afford to do that because as cool as the game is, it's just a platformer. Big production games don't have the same luxury as most reviews will focus on graphics/sound etc. If it runs like crap and looks average no one is going to accept that no matter how much fun it is.
    - timwiseman 15y ago
      I think you may have taken this too far. Graphics and sound can contribute to or detract from fun, but in the end it is fun that keeps people buying a game. A game that looks great, but plays poorly will not survive, but a game that plays fantastically might be around for years later. I played Planescape Torment many years after it was released because I kept hearing about it. Comparing it to graphics in other games that I played at the time the graphics were poor. But it had a tremendous story and was a lot of fun, so I played it through and still recommend it to others even though it is now even more dated.
      - mirsadm 15y ago
        I agree with you but I think with big studio games it isn't always the case. The graphics can carry a mediocre game very far. On the other extreme they can crush a really fun game if it doesn't look "current generation" or has other technical issues. Planescape Torment is fantastic. I still play Fallout2 these days. I love that game :)
        Spearchucker 15y ago
        My experience matches the previous poster. I used to abhor video games of any kind. Then I was given an XBox for good work or something, and started checking them out. Project Gotham Racing looked awesome, and played well. Same for Gears. Chromehounds looked crap, but played insanely well. I've spent more time playing Chromehounds than I have any other game, and I play CoD a lot these days.
      - Retric 15y ago
        Planescape Torment was a great game but it also lost money.
      - homosaur 15y ago
        I loved Planescape! I remember how excited I was the first time I got to an absolute dead end and died. I was getting ready to restore from a save when I woke up on a table... "wait.. this is how you advance?!?!?" So cool, I've still not played an RPG that threw as many curveballs as that one.
  - sliverstorm 15y ago
    The thing about game programming is as best I can tell, traditionally you ship it and you are done. Enterprise software, on the other hand, has required update cycles, maintenance and support for a long time now. This is changing, of course, with the growing presence of services like Steam and Battle.net, but it isn't the mode yet.
    - MortenK 15y ago
      The life cycle is definitely much shorter compared to average enterprise software, but it's never just been "ship and you are done". Even before the internet, patches and updates were distributed on game magazine cd's and support telephone numbers were listed in the back of the game manuals. Support and maintenance for your average game is a couple of years, typically.
- _delirium 15y ago
  He also wrote a nice piece in 2004, back when he still worked in the AAA part of the game industry, on what makes modern games hard to engineer cleanly and with small teams: http://queue.acm.org/detail.cfm?id=971590 http://queue.acm.org/detail.cfm?id=971590
- kibwen 15y ago
  Are those really the figures he cited? Working only weekdays, and only eight hours per day, that comes out to five lines of production code per hour. Even with the overhead of testing and occasional widespread refactoring, that seems incredibly low. In any case, Braid was just okay. The level where the flow of time depended on the direction that your character was traveling was great, but the rest of the game was forgettable. There was about as much gameplay/story integration as a Final Fantasy game, and the story itself was mostly overwrought. But considering that the game cost me one dollar to purchase, I'd say it was worth it. :)
  - mjmahone 15y ago
    As an intern at a tech company (not a gaming company, but still) I don't know anyone there who was able to write more than 5 lines of code/hour consistently. Maybe 10 if they absolutely knew all the ins and outs of the codebase. A good chunk of that was because a LOT of the time you spent was finding where the code was, deciding exactly which lines to change, reviewing others' code, etc. Making the wrong color choice could cost someone else ~30 minutes of time to potentially fix 1 line of css.
  - regularfry 15y ago
    > Are those really the figures he cited? Working only weekdays, and only eight hours per day, that comes out to five lines of production code per hour. Even with the overhead of testing and occasional widespread refactoring, that seems incredibly low. Fred Brooks cited 10-12 lines of code per day, constant across languages and projects he surveyed. As far as I know, it's not been shown to have changed since then.
DannoHung 15y ago
Blow himself is the most pretentious jerkoff in the world. He makes good games though. His game is about a stalker whether he wants it to be or not. Authorial intent is irrelevant. edit: Also, I hate how this article is written. It's not journalism when you turn the subjects into characters in a short story.
- mindstab 15y ago
  Alone on a mysterious island... So maybe less ground breaking and more a spiritual successor to Myst? I'm not saying don't do or play it, maybe just that it's not as uniquely original as the article author breathlessly makes it out to be.
  - ahelwer 15y ago
    The setting is explicitly stated to have been inspired by Myst.
    - huhtenberg 15y ago
      Still shots look awesome, there's clearly some radiosity rendering involved. Yay. I've been waiting for ages for a beautifully designed world exploration game. Hopefully this will be the one.
- laughinghan 15y ago
  Blow himself is the most pretentious jerkoff in the world. I'm curious, care to elaborate?
  - nazgulnarsil 15y ago
    not OP but being blase about being rich makes you a fucking asshole full stop.
    - icandoitbetter 15y ago
      oh come on. the article is dripping in journalese. you can hardly make any judgments about his character based on it alone (it even features the Beautiful Mind-esque cliche of "doesn't understand the social conventions of how to act around women"). you can't really tell if it's an off-hand remark about how his life hasn't changed by being rich or whether he actually went into long tirades on the banality of being rich.
ahelwer 15y ago
Interesting. I've avoided video games for quite some time for the same reason Mr. Blow avoids watching sports. Perhaps I'll check out this new game of his when it is released.
zobzu 15y ago
So I though video games werent generating money because of piracy and that even big titles had troubles. They'd have lied to me?!
- _delirium 15y ago
  There is a lot of money in them still. Perhaps even more than ever. Top titles, in both indie and AAA spaces, are pulling in revenues that would've seemed absurd a few years ago. Modern Warfare 3 grossed $400 million in its first 24 hours. By comparison, the top-grossing opening weekend for a film in 2011 was the Harry Potter film, which grossed $169 million. And in the indie space, if you're one of the handful-per-year breakout successes, you can make millions, perhaps double-digit millions, on typically much lower production+marketing costs. Super Meat Boy grossed somewhere above $10 million, Minecraft about $80 million, Bastion somewhere in the single-digit millions. The trick is being one of the few breakouts...
  - vacri 15y ago
    "in the first few hours" isn't the same for games as for other media. The shelf life of most big names is incredibly short - enough that DRM is often seen as a way to just survive piracy for the release period.
9999 15y ago
I agree with most of Blow's supposedly controversial points (on Zynga, social games, and the juvenile nature of most games...), but I just can't get excited about his games. Who wants to spend 30 hours speculating on the psychology of an alienated prude with a bunch of pseudo-philosophical garbage about the meaning of life slapped on as affect? Maybe if he was really good at it, I'd give it a shot. But he's not Ingmar Bergman, he's not even close.
- GuiA 15y ago
  ...you haven't even played the game yet. Have you tried Braid?
  - 9999 15y ago
    Yep.
- icandoitbetter 15y ago
  >Who wants to spend 30 hours speculating on the psychology of an alienated prude with a bunch of pseudo-philosophical garbage about the meaning of life slapped on as affect? How can you even make that claim when the game isn't out yet? I seriously have no idea what to make of your comment.
  - 9999 15y ago
    I was going off the description of Blow's aims and goals for The Witness from the article: Blow’s decision to bare his soul in The Witness springs from this same drive to live up to the full potential of his artistic medium; a meaningful game, he believes, must be an honest one. The Witnesss narrator, he freely admits, is a thinly veiled version of his own psyche. When the narrator speaks of his guilt over spending millions to create an island filled with puzzles instead of using that money for worthier causes, this is Blow’s real spiritual dilemma. When the narrator reflects on his feelings of empty vanity, on his alienation from others, on his “yearning for truth and deep understanding,” these are Blow’s pains and desires. Honesty and truth in storytelling is certainly important, but the kind of honesty he is talking about there is a boring truth. It reminds me of the same kind of thinking that produced Cinema Verite, and what Werner Herzog had to say about that philosophy: "By dint of declaration the so-called Cinema Verité is devoid of verité. It reaches a merely superficial truth, the truth of accountants." Even if I am not interested in Blow's pains and desires, I do respect the fact that he is deliberating on them, and hopefully encouraging other game developers to do so. However, the potential product of his process as described in that article just bores me to tears.
vdm 15y ago
Dup: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3834203 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3834203
bashzor 15y ago
Why does this article make 178 HTTP requests and load Javascript from 24 different domains over a duration of 16 seconds, before even the basic loading is done? After that it starts on its three realtime services: Disqus, Chartbeat and Tubemogul (whatever that is) all keep track of how long you stay on the page. Not to mention how the site manages to slow down the entire browser during loading, and has many simple syntax errors. Not cross-browser stuff (like webkit-only css rules), also simply misspelled CSS. Worst of all, the font is too small. I'm not going to read kilobytes of text like this. This kind of website makes me want to disable Javascript by default...
- dbaupp 15y ago
  If you are using Firefox, RequestPolicy[1] is really nice: allows you to block all those useless requests (and selectively activate ones that are required). [1]: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/requestpolicy/ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/requestpolicy...
- lawnchair_larry 15y ago
  Yeah, "analytics" are like a cancer on the web. This is getting out of hand.
sonikhejhog 15y ago
Though it's great to see people taking more creative control over their projects I doubt we need condescending auteurs to save the medium. Games have always been highly artistic. The fact that Dear Esther (which I enjoyed as a film) is taken seriously as a game even though there's literally nothing to do but passively soak up the experience, shows that we've reached an Emperor's New Clothes situation with the auteurs' pursuit of the mere idea of artistry being worshiped as the real thing.
mieubrisse 15y ago
It appears Mr. Blow has never heard of the likes of Portal or Minecraft, two of my favorite games that also happen to be tremendously popular. Neither features the testosterone-laden warrior-men or buxom bikini babes that he claims have the industry in a death grip, neither can be slotted into the "money-grubbing sequel" category, and neither is immediately understandable "on an elementary level" as Clark says. While it's true that games like Call of Duty are tailored towards a certain audience, Blow and the Clark are blatantly disregarding evidence that contradicts their damning critiques of the industry.
- enqk 15y ago
  Only one of them was developed within the industry, and that one (portal) was actually drafted in school. Finding only two examples is actually pretty damning too.
darksaga 15y ago
After seeing some early videos, I had mixed thoughts. I was impressed with the idea of the game, but thought for all the time he spent on it, it might be over the heads of 85% of the gamers out there. I'm still wondering if he's just putting this game out there, or if he actually has a target audience he's aiming at.
Hari_Seldon 15y ago
Slightly off topic: The setting for his game is apparently inspired by Myst. I never got the appeal of Myst, I know it was very popular but to me it just seemed to be not mush more than a slideshow. It had the reputation of being the most popular game for people who didn't like games. At the time I was an avid gamer, maybe that's why I couldn't get into it.
- danteembermage 15y ago
  The game was created in hypercard, so technically it was exactly zero more than a slideshow. Probably the most atmospheric game I've ever played though; there was something intensely creepy about wandering around a beautiful empty island full of strange gadgets.
Lockyy 15y ago
Because this story was already posted a couple days ago and never really received much attention I'm going to repost my comment from that story. It was in responce to someone comparing his new "innovative" game to myst and how Blow is much more derivative than he lets on. It was also a response to the article implying he was the only person working on truly artistic video games. "and don't forget the much more recent Dear Esther. Which is a first person exploration game based on an island. Oh and don't forget that other 'cerebral' game that is yet another source mod (which Dear Esther originally was). The Stanley Parable.[2] Personally I think this developer is stuck up his own arse. Talking about how the industry is full of dross for cretins whilst ignoring these games. His biggest game, Braid, revolves wholly around the twist at the end along with an interesting gameplay gimmick. He may be an artist within the industry. But by far isn't the only one, nor is he the best by a long shot. Comparing the video game industry to literature and movies and saying "Oh, look at how mindless we are in comparison." Is missing the entire point. A lot of books, movies and games are mindless. But to then stand up because of that and say that the industry as a whole is mindless and that your brainchild is going to revolutionise it and fix all that is wrong is not only egotistical and ignorant but disrespectful of incredible artists like those who made the Stanley Parable. (Which was the first video game I played that really made me think. It is the game that I point to when I need to point out a video game that is art.) [1] http://dear-esther.com/ http://dear-esther.com/ [2] http://www.moddb.com/mods/the-stanley-parable http://www.moddb.com/mods/the-stanley-parable
- dagheti 15y ago
  Dear Esther was funded by the Indie Fund. One of the founders of the Indie Fund is Jonathan Blow. http://indie-fund.com/about/ http://indie-fund.com/about/
  - jblow 15y ago
    Thanks for noticing! Some posters here have very weird perspectives. Yes, if someone wants to extrapolate some straw man, based not on statements in the article or evidence from the real world, but built from whatever feels easy to criticize thoughtlessly, then sure, it is easy to knock that straw man down. Whatever. For what it's worth, I liked The Stanley Parable and had a nice chat with the author of the game at PAX last year. Why would anyone assume that something like this is not the case? You guys do know that the subjects of articles you read on the internet are other real people also on the internet, right? Why would a poster here assume that I am some kind of inert punching bag rather than, you know, someone who's been on HN for a couple of years and involved in discussions?
krisc 15y ago
Just a heads up for people who haven't played Braid (or you have played it but still want to dig deeper into the game's meaning), don't read Page 2 of the article. The author gives away too much! I've played the game and know that it's just his interpretation, but I still wish I haven't read it...
bsenftner 15y ago
I think he's going about his goals incorrectly. We wants to elevate games to a critically and mainstream accepted Art, so he creates a game that declares itself Art. Such an approach will have immense push-back from the 'main stream' (game) industry and even more from the general public. It actually does not matter what industry we're talking about - an industry that has not mainstream publicly accepted expressions of itself as High Art worthy of the equivalent of an Oscar/Emmy/Hugo/Literary-Nobel expression of the human condition will have virtually no chance of convincing the public one of their own has broken through into this level of communication. Think about what Clint Eastwood did with "The Unforgiven": before that film, the Western was considered a tired, spent, comical film genre. I remember reading pre-release critics saying Clint had wasted his time on that over used genre: "what could he possibly say that has not already been said 1,000 times?" they wrote... What did Clint do? He started the film as a more-or-less classically serious western. However, as the film progresses, it acknowledges itself through the presence of dime store outlaw novellas causing kids to idolize the criminal aspects of the western experience. Then our heroes go about demonstrating the fallacy of this attitude, and the film ends with the audience being spoon fed the horror this idolization creates. I suggest Mr. Blow and others attempting to elevate games to High Art need to begin with the traditionally insipid game style so popular today. (I can say this as a former 15 veteran of the games industry. I left specifically because of all the "pretentious" reasons Jonathan cites.) As the game's traditional fight-puzzle-fight mechanics play out, the character becomes exposed to the game engine simulation itself, and the gamer becomes exposed to the existential dilemma of wanting to continue their suspended disbelief while the game itself taunts them with the fact they are playing a game. Through such a careful balance of crossed signal communications, the gamer is left to question their own existence and the potential of our world merely being a simulation for the amusement and enrichment of others - at their expense. No, Matrix fans/critics, I'm not saying "make the Matrix". What I'm pointing out is how "The Unforgiven" elevated itself by acknowledging the disjoint between the fiction and the reality, and spoon fed that to the film viewer. Sure, many a western and plain film fan missed Clint's higher message. Such is the diverse nature of how Art communicates. Much of what is considered "Art" today is simply artfully ambiguous. Jonathan can not afford such ambitiousness if he wants to achieve his goal. Jonathan's goal of elevating games needs to include all the insipid game cliches to draw the traditional fan in, and then pull the floor out from under them, leaving them literally afraid to continue the game because it risks wreaking their appreciation for game playing thereafter. It's not a success to simply engage. It's not a success to merely cause consideration and wonder. Jonathan Blow's goal is to end games as they are today and reboot the entire industry, reborn as the 21st century's equivalent to the 20th century Film.
skadamat 15y ago
Such a great read, very interesting person. I love reading about people who life societal expectations and focus on spiritual and existential questions. The game looks pretty interesting, and while I thought it was only for Windows / xbox, it's also for mac! http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/braid/id411902645?mt=12 http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/braid/id411902645?mt=12

161 points by TDL 15y ago

Blow gave a talk once that I remember vivdly where he described the greatest challenge facing indie developers (applies to all products, not just games): going too slow. The average programmer can write maybe 10k lines of production ready code in a year, but a modest game the likes of Braid took ~100k LOC. In order to get it done in a reasonable amount of time you can't spend all day optimizing or constructing beautiful algorithms - you have to plow through as quickly as possible.

angersock 15y ago
Here's the talk in question: http://the-witness.net/news/2011/06/how-to-program-independent-games/ http://the-witness.net/news/2011/06/how-to-program-independe... In a course I took junior year of college, my project partner (now cofounder) and I worked on a zombie outbreak simulation game. Towards the height of the project, we were probably tearing up and laying down a thousand lines of code a day, keeping in touch over the phone and fixing build errors and weird behavior. Years later, I can't look at that code without wanting to gouge out my eyes. It makes me physically sick. That said, it worked and worked well for the task at hand. Game programming is weird like that, and Blow's talk has a section where he talks about the relative merits of dumb structures and algorithms for developers that just have to get the thing to work. It's an interesting perspective.
- mirsadm 15y ago
  With games like Braid you can afford to do that because as cool as the game is, it's just a platformer. Big production games don't have the same luxury as most reviews will focus on graphics/sound etc. If it runs like crap and looks average no one is going to accept that no matter how much fun it is.
  - timwiseman 15y ago
    I think you may have taken this too far. Graphics and sound can contribute to or detract from fun, but in the end it is fun that keeps people buying a game. A game that looks great, but plays poorly will not survive, but a game that plays fantastically might be around for years later. I played Planescape Torment many years after it was released because I kept hearing about it. Comparing it to graphics in other games that I played at the time the graphics were poor. But it had a tremendous story and was a lot of fun, so I played it through and still recommend it to others even though it is now even more dated.
    - mirsadm 15y ago
      I agree with you but I think with big studio games it isn't always the case. The graphics can carry a mediocre game very far. On the other extreme they can crush a really fun game if it doesn't look "current generation" or has other technical issues. Planescape Torment is fantastic. I still play Fallout2 these days. I love that game :)
      - Spearchucker 15y ago
        My experience matches the previous poster. I used to abhor video games of any kind. Then I was given an XBox for good work or something, and started checking them out. Project Gotham Racing looked awesome, and played well. Same for Gears. Chromehounds looked crap, but played insanely well. I've spent more time playing Chromehounds than I have any other game, and I play CoD a lot these days.
    - Retric 15y ago
      Planescape Torment was a great game but it also lost money.
    - homosaur 15y ago
      I loved Planescape! I remember how excited I was the first time I got to an absolute dead end and died. I was getting ready to restore from a save when I woke up on a table... "wait.. this is how you advance?!?!?" So cool, I've still not played an RPG that threw as many curveballs as that one.
- sliverstorm 15y ago
  The thing about game programming is as best I can tell, traditionally you ship it and you are done. Enterprise software, on the other hand, has required update cycles, maintenance and support for a long time now. This is changing, of course, with the growing presence of services like Steam and Battle.net, but it isn't the mode yet.
  - MortenK 15y ago
    The life cycle is definitely much shorter compared to average enterprise software, but it's never just been "ship and you are done". Even before the internet, patches and updates were distributed on game magazine cd's and support telephone numbers were listed in the back of the game manuals. Support and maintenance for your average game is a couple of years, typically.
_delirium 15y ago
He also wrote a nice piece in 2004, back when he still worked in the AAA part of the game industry, on what makes modern games hard to engineer cleanly and with small teams: http://queue.acm.org/detail.cfm?id=971590 http://queue.acm.org/detail.cfm?id=971590
kibwen 15y ago
Are those really the figures he cited? Working only weekdays, and only eight hours per day, that comes out to five lines of production code per hour. Even with the overhead of testing and occasional widespread refactoring, that seems incredibly low. In any case, Braid was just okay. The level where the flow of time depended on the direction that your character was traveling was great, but the rest of the game was forgettable. There was about as much gameplay/story integration as a Final Fantasy game, and the story itself was mostly overwrought. But considering that the game cost me one dollar to purchase, I'd say it was worth it. :)
- mjmahone 15y ago
  As an intern at a tech company (not a gaming company, but still) I don't know anyone there who was able to write more than 5 lines of code/hour consistently. Maybe 10 if they absolutely knew all the ins and outs of the codebase. A good chunk of that was because a LOT of the time you spent was finding where the code was, deciding exactly which lines to change, reviewing others' code, etc. Making the wrong color choice could cost someone else ~30 minutes of time to potentially fix 1 line of css.
- regularfry 15y ago
  > Are those really the figures he cited? Working only weekdays, and only eight hours per day, that comes out to five lines of production code per hour. Even with the overhead of testing and occasional widespread refactoring, that seems incredibly low. Fred Brooks cited 10-12 lines of code per day, constant across languages and projects he surveyed. As far as I know, it's not been shown to have changed since then.

DannoHung 15y ago

Blow himself is the most pretentious jerkoff in the world. He makes good games though. His game is about a stalker whether he wants it to be or not. Authorial intent is irrelevant. edit: Also, I hate how this article is written. It's not journalism when you turn the subjects into characters in a short story.

mindstab 15y ago
Alone on a mysterious island... So maybe less ground breaking and more a spiritual successor to Myst? I'm not saying don't do or play it, maybe just that it's not as uniquely original as the article author breathlessly makes it out to be.
- ahelwer 15y ago
  The setting is explicitly stated to have been inspired by Myst.
  - huhtenberg 15y ago
    Still shots look awesome, there's clearly some radiosity rendering involved. Yay. I've been waiting for ages for a beautifully designed world exploration game. Hopefully this will be the one.
laughinghan 15y ago
Blow himself is the most pretentious jerkoff in the world. I'm curious, care to elaborate?
- nazgulnarsil 15y ago
  not OP but being blase about being rich makes you a fucking asshole full stop.
  - icandoitbetter 15y ago
    oh come on. the article is dripping in journalese. you can hardly make any judgments about his character based on it alone (it even features the Beautiful Mind-esque cliche of "doesn't understand the social conventions of how to act around women"). you can't really tell if it's an off-hand remark about how his life hasn't changed by being rich or whether he actually went into long tirades on the banality of being rich.

ahelwer 15y ago

Interesting. I've avoided video games for quite some time for the same reason Mr. Blow avoids watching sports. Perhaps I'll check out this new game of his when it is released.

zobzu 15y ago

So I though video games werent generating money because of piracy and that even big titles had troubles. They'd have lied to me?!

_delirium 15y ago
There is a lot of money in them still. Perhaps even more than ever. Top titles, in both indie and AAA spaces, are pulling in revenues that would've seemed absurd a few years ago. Modern Warfare 3 grossed $400 million in its first 24 hours. By comparison, the top-grossing opening weekend for a film in 2011 was the Harry Potter film, which grossed $169 million. And in the indie space, if you're one of the handful-per-year breakout successes, you can make millions, perhaps double-digit millions, on typically much lower production+marketing costs. Super Meat Boy grossed somewhere above $10 million, Minecraft about $80 million, Bastion somewhere in the single-digit millions. The trick is being one of the few breakouts...
- vacri 15y ago
  "in the first few hours" isn't the same for games as for other media. The shelf life of most big names is incredibly short - enough that DRM is often seen as a way to just survive piracy for the release period.

9999 15y ago

I agree with most of Blow's supposedly controversial points (on Zynga, social games, and the juvenile nature of most games...), but I just can't get excited about his games. Who wants to spend 30 hours speculating on the psychology of an alienated prude with a bunch of pseudo-philosophical garbage about the meaning of life slapped on as affect? Maybe if he was really good at it, I'd give it a shot. But he's not Ingmar Bergman, he's not even close.

GuiA 15y ago
...you haven't even played the game yet. Have you tried Braid?
- 9999 15y ago
  Yep.
icandoitbetter 15y ago
>Who wants to spend 30 hours speculating on the psychology of an alienated prude with a bunch of pseudo-philosophical garbage about the meaning of life slapped on as affect? How can you even make that claim when the game isn't out yet? I seriously have no idea what to make of your comment.
- 9999 15y ago
  I was going off the description of Blow's aims and goals for The Witness from the article: Blow’s decision to bare his soul in The Witness springs from this same drive to live up to the full potential of his artistic medium; a meaningful game, he believes, must be an honest one. The Witnesss narrator, he freely admits, is a thinly veiled version of his own psyche. When the narrator speaks of his guilt over spending millions to create an island filled with puzzles instead of using that money for worthier causes, this is Blow’s real spiritual dilemma. When the narrator reflects on his feelings of empty vanity, on his alienation from others, on his “yearning for truth and deep understanding,” these are Blow’s pains and desires. Honesty and truth in storytelling is certainly important, but the kind of honesty he is talking about there is a boring truth. It reminds me of the same kind of thinking that produced Cinema Verite, and what Werner Herzog had to say about that philosophy: "By dint of declaration the so-called Cinema Verité is devoid of verité. It reaches a merely superficial truth, the truth of accountants." Even if I am not interested in Blow's pains and desires, I do respect the fact that he is deliberating on them, and hopefully encouraging other game developers to do so. However, the potential product of his process as described in that article just bores me to tears.

vdm 15y ago

Dup: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3834203 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3834203

bashzor 15y ago

Why does this article make 178 HTTP requests and load Javascript from 24 different domains over a duration of 16 seconds, before even the basic loading is done? After that it starts on its three realtime services: Disqus, Chartbeat and Tubemogul (whatever that is) all keep track of how long you stay on the page. Not to mention how the site manages to slow down the entire browser during loading, and has many simple syntax errors. Not cross-browser stuff (like webkit-only css rules), also simply misspelled CSS. Worst of all, the font is too small. I'm not going to read kilobytes of text like this. This kind of website makes me want to disable Javascript by default...

dbaupp 15y ago
If you are using Firefox, RequestPolicy[1] is really nice: allows you to block all those useless requests (and selectively activate ones that are required). [1]: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/requestpolicy/ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/requestpolicy...
lawnchair_larry 15y ago
Yeah, "analytics" are like a cancer on the web. This is getting out of hand.

sonikhejhog 15y ago

Though it's great to see people taking more creative control over their projects I doubt we need condescending auteurs to save the medium. Games have always been highly artistic. The fact that Dear Esther (which I enjoyed as a film) is taken seriously as a game even though there's literally nothing to do but passively soak up the experience, shows that we've reached an Emperor's New Clothes situation with the auteurs' pursuit of the mere idea of artistry being worshiped as the real thing.

mieubrisse 15y ago

It appears Mr. Blow has never heard of the likes of Portal or Minecraft, two of my favorite games that also happen to be tremendously popular. Neither features the testosterone-laden warrior-men or buxom bikini babes that he claims have the industry in a death grip, neither can be slotted into the "money-grubbing sequel" category, and neither is immediately understandable "on an elementary level" as Clark says. While it's true that games like Call of Duty are tailored towards a certain audience, Blow and the Clark are blatantly disregarding evidence that contradicts their damning critiques of the industry.

enqk 15y ago
Only one of them was developed within the industry, and that one (portal) was actually drafted in school. Finding only two examples is actually pretty damning too.

darksaga 15y ago

After seeing some early videos, I had mixed thoughts. I was impressed with the idea of the game, but thought for all the time he spent on it, it might be over the heads of 85% of the gamers out there. I'm still wondering if he's just putting this game out there, or if he actually has a target audience he's aiming at.

Hari_Seldon 15y ago

Slightly off topic: The setting for his game is apparently inspired by Myst. I never got the appeal of Myst, I know it was very popular but to me it just seemed to be not mush more than a slideshow. It had the reputation of being the most popular game for people who didn't like games. At the time I was an avid gamer, maybe that's why I couldn't get into it.

danteembermage 15y ago
The game was created in hypercard, so technically it was exactly zero more than a slideshow. Probably the most atmospheric game I've ever played though; there was something intensely creepy about wandering around a beautiful empty island full of strange gadgets.

Lockyy 15y ago

Because this story was already posted a couple days ago and never really received much attention I'm going to repost my comment from that story. It was in responce to someone comparing his new "innovative" game to myst and how Blow is much more derivative than he lets on. It was also a response to the article implying he was the only person working on truly artistic video games. "and don't forget the much more recent Dear Esther. Which is a first person exploration game based on an island. Oh and don't forget that other 'cerebral' game that is yet another source mod (which Dear Esther originally was). The Stanley Parable.[2] Personally I think this developer is stuck up his own arse. Talking about how the industry is full of dross for cretins whilst ignoring these games. His biggest game, Braid, revolves wholly around the twist at the end along with an interesting gameplay gimmick. He may be an artist within the industry. But by far isn't the only one, nor is he the best by a long shot. Comparing the video game industry to literature and movies and saying "Oh, look at how mindless we are in comparison." Is missing the entire point. A lot of books, movies and games are mindless. But to then stand up because of that and say that the industry as a whole is mindless and that your brainchild is going to revolutionise it and fix all that is wrong is not only egotistical and ignorant but disrespectful of incredible artists like those who made the Stanley Parable. (Which was the first video game I played that really made me think. It is the game that I point to when I need to point out a video game that is art.) [1] http://dear-esther.com/ http://dear-esther.com/ [2] http://www.moddb.com/mods/the-stanley-parable http://www.moddb.com/mods/the-stanley-parable

dagheti 15y ago
Dear Esther was funded by the Indie Fund. One of the founders of the Indie Fund is Jonathan Blow. http://indie-fund.com/about/ http://indie-fund.com/about/
- jblow 15y ago
  Thanks for noticing! Some posters here have very weird perspectives. Yes, if someone wants to extrapolate some straw man, based not on statements in the article or evidence from the real world, but built from whatever feels easy to criticize thoughtlessly, then sure, it is easy to knock that straw man down. Whatever. For what it's worth, I liked The Stanley Parable and had a nice chat with the author of the game at PAX last year. Why would anyone assume that something like this is not the case? You guys do know that the subjects of articles you read on the internet are other real people also on the internet, right? Why would a poster here assume that I am some kind of inert punching bag rather than, you know, someone who's been on HN for a couple of years and involved in discussions?

krisc 15y ago

Just a heads up for people who haven't played Braid (or you have played it but still want to dig deeper into the game's meaning), don't read Page 2 of the article. The author gives away too much! I've played the game and know that it's just his interpretation, but I still wish I haven't read it...

bsenftner 15y ago

I think he's going about his goals incorrectly. We wants to elevate games to a critically and mainstream accepted Art, so he creates a game that declares itself Art. Such an approach will have immense push-back from the 'main stream' (game) industry and even more from the general public. It actually does not matter what industry we're talking about - an industry that has not mainstream publicly accepted expressions of itself as High Art worthy of the equivalent of an Oscar/Emmy/Hugo/Literary-Nobel expression of the human condition will have virtually no chance of convincing the public one of their own has broken through into this level of communication. Think about what Clint Eastwood did with "The Unforgiven": before that film, the Western was considered a tired, spent, comical film genre. I remember reading pre-release critics saying Clint had wasted his time on that over used genre: "what could he possibly say that has not already been said 1,000 times?" they wrote... What did Clint do? He started the film as a more-or-less classically serious western. However, as the film progresses, it acknowledges itself through the presence of dime store outlaw novellas causing kids to idolize the criminal aspects of the western experience. Then our heroes go about demonstrating the fallacy of this attitude, and the film ends with the audience being spoon fed the horror this idolization creates. I suggest Mr. Blow and others attempting to elevate games to High Art need to begin with the traditionally insipid game style so popular today. (I can say this as a former 15 veteran of the games industry. I left specifically because of all the "pretentious" reasons Jonathan cites.) As the game's traditional fight-puzzle-fight mechanics play out, the character becomes exposed to the game engine simulation itself, and the gamer becomes exposed to the existential dilemma of wanting to continue their suspended disbelief while the game itself taunts them with the fact they are playing a game. Through such a careful balance of crossed signal communications, the gamer is left to question their own existence and the potential of our world merely being a simulation for the amusement and enrichment of others - at their expense. No, Matrix fans/critics, I'm not saying "make the Matrix". What I'm pointing out is how "The Unforgiven" elevated itself by acknowledging the disjoint between the fiction and the reality, and spoon fed that to the film viewer. Sure, many a western and plain film fan missed Clint's higher message. Such is the diverse nature of how Art communicates. Much of what is considered "Art" today is simply artfully ambiguous. Jonathan can not afford such ambitiousness if he wants to achieve his goal. Jonathan's goal of elevating games needs to include all the insipid game cliches to draw the traditional fan in, and then pull the floor out from under them, leaving them literally afraid to continue the game because it risks wreaking their appreciation for game playing thereafter. It's not a success to simply engage. It's not a success to merely cause consideration and wonder. Jonathan Blow's goal is to end games as they are today and reboot the entire industry, reborn as the 21st century's equivalent to the 20th century Film.

skadamat 15y ago

Such a great read, very interesting person. I love reading about people who life societal expectations and focus on spiritual and existential questions. The game looks pretty interesting, and while I thought it was only for Windows / xbox, it's also for mac! http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/braid/id411902645?mt=12 http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/braid/id411902645?mt=12