10 ms·

I've been playing around with Ubuntu training myself for the day that I have to give up windows 10. My only complaints are that Linux can be tedious, everything

I've been playing around with Ubuntu training myself for the day that I have to give up windows 10. My only complaints are that Linux can be tedious, everything is just 43 commands away; it requires greater understanding of not just what the system is doing, but how it is doing it; and the documentation is written like a Wikipedia article on advanced nuclear theory. Windows and OSX have, for the most part, just worked, and it was easier for me to understand what was going on, and how to engage tasks, fix problems, and use the system. With Linux it can feel like I'm fighting with the system at times. I'm enjoying the experience but it has not been without frustration. Perhaps I should have chosen another flavor?

noir_lord 3y ago
> Perhaps I should have chosen another flavor? That'll ignite a holy war. The trick with linux isn't to learn the flavour, it's to learn linux - once you get an overview of how all the bits work then switching distro is (much) more straightforward. Ubuntu is an excellent first choice because it's one of the major distro's so you'll be able to google stuff more easily. My personal recommendation would be Fedora (and if you want a familiar windows 10 at least in approach GUI) Cinnamon which is excellent.
- xattt 3y ago
  Any comment on Arch one you get going? I find the documentation quite thorough for the niggly bits, and have used it to troubleshoot Ubuntu (taking into account differences between the distros).
  - II2II 3y ago
    I am an Arch enthusiast since I like building my system up and learning how things are put together, but it is not a terribly good platform for learning how to use or manage a Linux system. One of the issues is that you end up with a system is tailored to your own needs. While that sounds great, you have to make an effort to generalize those skills since no one else will have a setup quite like yours.
- vorticalbox 3y ago
  I have been eyeing up Fedora Onyx for the immutable root
  - stingraycharles 3y ago
    You mean Fedora Silverblue? Haven’t heard of Onyx. Edit: ok so I learned about Onyx, which appears to be doing roughly the same thing?
    - palebluedot 3y ago
      There are different spins of Fedora that are immutable and based on rpm-ostree and flatpaks, the variation being the desktop manager environment: * Silverblue: GNOME * Onyx: Budgie * Kinoite: KDE Plasma * Sericea: Sway
      - bryanlarsen 3y ago
        And don't forget the community spins based off ublue, like Bazzite!
  - KAMSPioneer 3y ago
    Just installed Onyx yesterday on my work machine! So far so good, some niggles as always (it's my first time using Budgie), but overall fairly usable and easy.
  - totallywrong 3y ago
    I've been using an immutable Fedora for quite a while now and it's amazing. I use toolbox and run everything in containers, including GUI apps, so not even using Flatpak which I'm not a big fan of. I think I have like 3 or 4 packages installed on top of the base image. The peace of mind while upgrading can't be overstated. Highly recommended.
    - vorticalbox 3y ago
      I run mongodb for work and that requires openssl1. On Ubuntu I just copy the libs over to /usr/lib But that wouldn't be an option on an immutable system. I will look into toolbox. Edit: looks like tool box is exactly what I'm after!
- oldnetguy 3y ago
  > That'll ignite a holy war. And that has been the major problem with Linux for years.
  - SV_BubbleTime 3y ago
    The duplication of work is staggering. The best people at Mint are working on the same problems as those at Fedora and PopOS and Cube and Suse … infinite loop.
- chx 3y ago
  Where do I learn modern desktop Linux? I am using it on servers since 1993 and used for desktop 2004-2017 (and was very unhappy with it) so my desktop knowledge is severely outdated.
  - blkhawk 3y ago
    I would be really interested what you were unhappy with? the only major thing that truely changed after 2017 was that wine became almost universally compatible. It was freakish how little issues i had in 2019 when i switched completely.
    - antod 3y ago
      2017 was in the early phase of pretty disruptive era with Linux - eg systemd, audio, wayland, app sandboxes etc etc. I get the feeling things are settling now, and stabilising / consolidating into a better place overall with less churn. But for a while things weren't as stable as they typically were before that.
      - blkhawk 3y ago
        I tried wayland maybe a little over a year ago and the copy and paste behavior was bad enough to switch back. I recently switched to get freesync to work on multimonitor and the issue is now manageable. app sandboxes I fell less positive about - I dislike them since I think they are only fixing stuff that is already unaceptable to happen. As for audio - yes while pulseaudio was working i remember some issues with that (mostly related to s/pdiv). This also has lessened with pipewire.
    - chx 3y ago
      Some experiences Ubuntu distupgrade breaks my machine so badly I need to spend days putting it together again Switched to Arch Upgrade. Bluetooth breaks. MFC device breaks. One of the two almost always. Compared to this the only thing I dislike with Windows upgrades is how it can wake up the machine even from S0 state (wtf!) to upgrade and reboot. But aside from that, it's a complete nonevent when it upgrades. It's been near six years and I never had an issue. I had a client using an F5 VPN requiring MFA and there was no MFA support except on Windows. I got it working with an old Firefox running as root (because that supported old style extensions and I managed to find an old extension that worked). The only question regarding this setup was from the head of IT at this company asking but not receiving any responses on how to do this. Weird enterprise wifi always a headache. I just got a GPD G1. Here's my experience getting it to work: 1. Plug in power. 2. Plug in the Thunderbolt cable 3. Install AMD Adrenaline driver only (only step that requires a tiny bit of expertise -- don't install all the stuff) 4. Reboot 5. It works. 6. If I unplug it, machine goes back to the nVidia GPU inside the laptop. No fuss. Tell me true, is this going to work on Linux ? I seriously doubt.
- underseacables 3y ago
  Thank you, The documentation is really important for me I guess. I feel more comfortable with documentation carefully laid everything out; screenshots are gold. Is there a book that you would recommend that would help a novice like myself learn Linux better?
  - aarond0623 3y ago
    IMO, the best way to get comfortable with Linux is to get comfortable with the command line, because although every distribution is going to have different UI and built-in apps, the command line is going to stay pretty consistent. Also, a lot of troubleshooting you Google is going to involve interacting with the command line, and it's essential to understand what the commands you're executing are actually doing. I'd recommend The Linux Command Line by William Schotts to get started.
    - TrueSlacker0 3y ago
      And that right there is why Linux is so frustrating to start with. It is easier to solve most problems via command line however a normal user should never ever have to touch a command line. Everything for a common person should be easily accessible via a gui.
      - veqq 3y ago
        > Everything for a common person should be easily accessible via a gui. They are. Just there are many different GUIs. Each distro by definition has different ones and you can easily change them yourself etc. There are dozens of sound GUIs, hell, I've tried 4 redshift GUIs before settling on QRedshift. It's so easy to write software for Linux that you have countless opportunities. That's why the command line is easier - it always works(ish).
    - blowfish721 3y ago
      Was trying to configure a network bridge for a vm just the other day from cli. The guide (for Ubuntu which I was also using) was using nmcli (Network Manager), tried it and command not found, back to searching and was nudged to systemd networking by stackoverflow which didnt work either. Turns out that my system was using Netplan. Three different systems to handle networking, really? Ok, chatgpt convert this nmcli command to netplan, sure here you go just put this in your netplan config file and apply config. Ends up with a botched network config on a headless system.
okr 3y ago
No worries. I have installed windows 11 lately and i find it tedious. It constantly wants to register me somewhere, it asks me to have this as standard, and it is always updating something and asks me to reboot. And why i cant remove certain things from my taskbar? So, i guess, we both have out difficulties. Like always.
- eldaisfish 3y ago
  i really dislike this line of reasoning. Windows has a much larger installed base so finding support and solutions are pretty easy. Whether that is a video, a blog or a forum, you can always find someone with the same problem. No, windows nagging you to register is not in the same ballpark as your audio not working or your video resolution changing with multiple monitors. No, windows updates adding or removing features are not equivalent to the problems linux has, many of which are showstoppers. You're trying to be snarky and this is one reason why so many regular Joes are reluctant to adopt linux. you never know when you will need the terminal and when you will encounter an unhelpful response like this.
  - okr 3y ago
    So serious. I find the linux community indeed very resourceful. And the ones for windows, after you have clicked thousands of banners away, that tell you the workaround for avoiding the registering after a long text of nothing, i find them resourceful too. My point was, that it is always difficult to enter a new domain. So it is a shared pain.
    - eldaisfish 3y ago
      My limited point here is that linux has a lot of problems that are showstoppers. You sometimes cannot do what you want to do. The average person cares about about usability first. Visually, linux is excellent and very useable. The problem is, should things go wrong, the level of technical skill needed to use community resources is relatively high.
      - 3y ago
bmicraft 3y ago
Ubuntu is mostly fine and a good middle ground for new users between bleeding edge (Arch, Fedora) and outdated software (Debian) IMHO. It's also probably the best place to start simply because of the mountains of documentation that exist for it because of its large userbase. I would also like to add that often you'll find answers to stuff telling you to use a couple of commands when instead you could use existing gui tools. That might be because commands are faster for people that already know them, but often they're not the only way.
- underseacables 3y ago
  I deeply appreciate the GUIs.
- pmontra 3y ago
  Instructions like type "this and that" in a terminal are short and perfectly reproducible. Instructions like open Settings, find This, click that" are less precise and could leave people stuck halfway. Even on Windows forums there are often NET USE or Powershell commands mixed with instructions to perform the same task using GUI apps.
worthless-trash 3y ago
What kinda tasks are you talking about here, that requires N commands, sometimes tasks do actually take that many options because you're doing more complex things than you could without the CLI.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
bottled_poe 3y ago
I hear you, but windows seems like a black box in a lot of ways. I don’t have any trust that what it tells me about running processes is accurate. Under Linux I feel like I am actually in control of the machine on a much greater scale. And I’m sure you know know what they say about great power..
asimovfan 3y ago
Interesting, my experience is the opposite.. since windows 10 came out it became almost unusable and problematic with random stuff, even after debloating scripts. Ubuntu has been my go to system for a while now, and i basically just want to watch YouTube and edit text.
gumballindie 3y ago
> My only complaints are that Linux can be tedious, everything is just 43 commands away Perhaps your training was done with chatgpt or some other procedural text generator because that hasn't been the case for quite a while now. Some people should stick with poorly engineered operating systems such as Windows, since stepping out of one's comfort zone is not for everyone. Some people _need_ to be told what to do and how to think in all aspects of life.
- sanitycheck 3y ago
  43's an exaggeration, but when something goes wrong the command-line is generally the only way to fix it even in the friendliest of distros. In the old days in order to effectively use Linux at all anyone would have had to become familiar with the terminal and how it all works. Nowadays users only have to do that when something goes wrong - and of course that's great progress, but it does mean that those users are less prepared to deal with issues. It's also easier to get help than it used ("RTFM n00b") to be, but that help is almost always in the form of some arcane command without any explanation of what it is, so it doesn't really help anyone learn. Personally I'd like to see all this stuff hooked up to a GUI, with easily accessible docs for everything built in. (I think Windows is actually quite good, unfortunately parts of Microsoft have become very user-hostile. I wish they'd just say "buy the new Windows! It's $200, we'll support it for 6 years, it will have no ads, it won't require any "cloud" and it will not harvest your personal data.")
  - gumballindie 3y ago
    > Personally I'd like to see all this stuff hooked up to a GUI, with easily accessible docs for everything built in. That is indeed something i’d also like to see more of, but the number of times when i needed the command line is quite low. Ironically I have more issues with my windows install on a very modern laptop - drivers suck, need to use the command line to disable windows built in spyware, file sharing is flakey and so on. My linux machines all work. Linux on the same laptop just works. Also linux not being a commercial os is expected to have some issues around the edges but overall it beats windows in all technical areas except where vendor lock in kicks in.
INTPenis 3y ago
I'm a Poweruser of Linux since the late 90s and I can tell you that if you're a Windows or Mac poweruser with zero Linux experience, you're not going to have a good time in Linux. Linux has come amazingly far, but I still wouldn't recommend it for everyone. It's all about context. You're a power user so you're going to want to do advanced things, which requires total immersion in a completely different ecosystem. But my 80 year old father on the other hand, he just wants to edit documents, scan images, browse facebook and play solitaire. He can run Fedora Silverblue with no problems.
loudmax 3y ago
Most of your interaction with your computer is via the Desktop Environment. Which is Gnome in a default Ubuntu installation. If you're not particularly interested in exploring alternate operating system philosophies, I'd recommend looking into other Desktop Environments to use on Ubuntu. In particular, I'd recommend XFCE or Mate since they behave conventionally. One thing to understand when moving from a proprietary to an open source OS is how much control you have over the system. Just about any part of it can be disabled or upgraded or swapped out for something different. If you learn where the seams are and how the different pieces work together, it gives you far greater control over your computer than any proprietary OS. If you expect everything to just work, you may be setting yourself up for disappointment.
jaeckel 3y ago
As also stated by others you should start learning the basic concepts and no specific flavor/distro to understand how everything fits together. You sound like someone who could very well succeed in that, since you didn't give up yet :) I can only recommend starting to read https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Installation_guide https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Installation_guide Once I installed arch I never looked back. I heard good things of the rolling distros of Suse and Fedora as well, but arch feels more vanilla than the others to me. If you have a lot of time and passion you could also have a run of linux from scratch. You do it once for the learning part and then choose a distro of your liking.
- horeszko 3y ago
  "Once I installed arch I never looked back" I'm also very fond of Arch Linux and I use it on my laptop. However Arch is very much DIY and is great for the person who wants to get their hands dirty because with Arch you assemble and maintain the installation yourself. For someone who wants things to work out of the box with no (or minimal) tinkering, I would recommend a different distro. Arch is a distro for learners and enthusiasts. But it would be frustrating for someone who just wants a working OS.
  - mdhen 3y ago
    If you want the primary benefit of arch (AUR, best package manager repo) but don't want to do a custom set up then Manjaro is a very good choice.
hospitalJail 3y ago
>My only complaints are that Linux can be tedious, everything is just 43 commands away That is because you are using Ubuntu which is a prehistoric Linux OS. Try Fedora Cinnamon. People complain about linux, but are using something that is designed to be a decade old for 'stability'. Meanwhile I have 0 issues with Fedora Cinnamon's stability, I think Ubuntu + children are cashing in on name recognition. Its time to move on.
PoignardAzur 3y ago
I've had good results out-of-the-box with PopOS, an Ubuntu variant.
kibwen 3y ago
> Windows and OSX have, for the most part, just worked I bought a System76 machine running their own PopOS distro and everything Just Works as I'd expect, with the added benefit of actually having the ability to muck around with the innards of my system when I want to, unlike Mac or Windows, which are increasingly locked-down, opaque, and user-hostile. Neither Apple nor Microsoft are consumer desktop OS-focused companies these days; the former is a mostly a phone manufacturer and the latter is a confusing mess that might be best described as an enterprise software company. They have no material incentive to care about the quality of Mac or Windows, and it shows; their desktop OSes are afterthoughts.
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago
  >I bought a System76 machine running their own PopOS distro and everything Just Works as I'd expect Including touchpad gestures and browser hardware video acceleration out of the box?
  - kibwen 3y ago
    It has touchpad gestures, and I even used a GUI program (I think it's called Touche, trivially installed via the app store) to customize the gestures further (it's quite powerful, it lets you assign arbitrary keys or shell scripts to gestures and scope them by context, e.g. I assigned four-finger swipe left/right to Alt+Left/Right while inside Firefox to perform back/forward navigation (this was before Firefox started shipping with gestures natively)). As for browser hardware video acceleration, I sure hope so (the model I got has a beefy GPU) but I'm not sure how to check, and in any case I reflexively watch all videos in 480p after years of watching my old Windows laptop overheat while trying to decode video so I'm the wrong person to ask. :P
  - amlib 3y ago
    Firefox has hardware video decoding enabled by default on linux for years now, only google chrome doesn't want to bother doing the work to enable it. That said, in some cases hardware video decoding may be unavailable due to IP issues that forbid the necessary code to be distributed freely.
znpy 3y ago
> With Linux it can feel like I'm fighting with the system at times. All your points are valid, and it's been a meme for a while now that the year of linux on the desktop is always next year. HOWEVER, consider the following: When you're on linux you're fighthing the shortcomings of the operating system (and learning stuff as you go) where as when you're on Windows/MacOS you're fighting companies actively trying to screw you over (and over and over again, always in new ways). The question now becomes: what fight are you willing to fight?
unsungNovelty 3y ago
I have been using using Linux for 16 years in total and 7+ years as my primary OS. Ubuntu itself is a performance hog due to snaps. And Ubuntu is NOT beginner friendly. As an ex-IT guy and as a linux enthusiast, It was not when I deployed it to developers and tech people in my company. And it is not beginner friendly when I install it to my friends & family. I used to use Ubuntu for work until last week. Used it because of the worry for Ubuntu compatibility since most work related tools etc supports Ubuntu if you want to use Linux at work. It used to use 7.5-8GB ram and >40% CPU. So I switched to Linux Mint. It is based off Ubuntu but it is faster & is better for UX. And I have been using Linux Mint since monday. Ram usage wend down to only max 6GB RAM and <25% CPU usage. For the same workload. Since it is Ubuntu compatible, Linux Mint will support all those work related stuff for which they need Ubuntu for. And I have a lot of horror stories with Ubuntu. I recommend Linux Mint if you want point release distro. It literally takes care of you and works OOTB. The only problem is it doesn't have wayland support yet. If you have the time to invest (which I think you don't since you mentioned tedious), and only if you have time, I recommend Arch Linux. Another green flag is to prefer community led/oriented Linux flavours over corporate funded for long term UX. Way too many cuts and bleeds to trust a corporate run Linux distro. CentOS and Ubuntu being the latest ones. The only exception so far has been OpenSuse IMO. And I have heard good things about POPOS as well. I haven't used it to comment on it though. I really see FreeBSD as my north star. But it is not yet there for my work and desktop usecases.
- jorvi 3y ago
  Arch is terrible due to their bare testing package release policy. Generally accepted recommends: - Windows converts: Mint - General: Fedora / PopOS - Rolling: Suse Tumbleweed - Config fanatics: Nix - Minimalistic fanatics: Void / Alpine
  - unsungNovelty 3y ago
    > Arch is terrible due to their bare testing package release policy. It is NOT. This is biggest mystery I have about people's perception about Arch Linux. Arch provides latest upstream stable packages unlike point releases. NOT developer branches of packages BUT STABLE versions of package as soon as it is available. Point releases like ubuntu gives you old versions of software. And backport security patches against that version from latest stable packages which again leads to possible bugs etc etc. Apart from Linux, you will never see anyone calling a latest stable version of a software as "bleeding edge". You don't say iOS 17 as bleeding edge. It is the latest stable version of the iOS. Windows 11 is not bleeding edge, it is the latest stable version of windows OS. I have a 5+ year installation Arch installation from which I am writing this comment. It is fast easier to use and predictable. Point releases always give you a easy jumpstart and it is often a pain to maintain in the longer run. Arch definitely requires initial time investment (It is after all a DIY distro, not a managed distro), but it is easier to maintain. I use Arch because I am lazy. I don't want unpredicatable changes. I don't think I am going to complain getting firefox 119 (which is the latest STABLE version at the time of writing) within a week or two. Especially in these times where we should be using latest packages for security and stability. Also repost for Linux distros (like stable/unstable/testing) is testing a package against the distro. It is NOT checking the stability of the software itself. It is checking the stability of a software/packages against a particular distro.
pjmlp 3y ago
As ex-UNIX zealot, that came back into Windows around Windows 7, and then settled to use GNU/Linux from VMWare, Windows has gotten worse, but still not bad enough for me to use GNU/Linux as main OS. Just last weekend I have spent a good part of it fixing the way installing clang messed up with Ubuntu's system clang, plugged via LAN cable, because after all these years my little Asus netbook still cannot keep a stable WLAN connection to my router.
ajross 3y ago
So... your complaints are about Linux as a desktop, direct-use environment. The linked article is about a datacenter device (or at least a dedicated build box, virtually all 7995WX chips are going to be deployed headless for sure). But for sure all the skills you need to use to deploy and administer a dedicated 96 core monster are for sure ones you can productively apply to install packages or whatnot on your Ubuntu/Fedora/Arch/Mint/whatever laptop. But also, all that said: if you want a Linux laptop where everything "normal" works with no fuss, just buy a Chromebook.
brightball 3y ago
YMMV. I switched off of OSX as my primary machine around 2015 and moved to full time Linux. Just decided to commit and fully dove in. I tried several different flavors for months at a time from Fedora to Ubuntu. Eventually I settled on PopOS. I was really happy with everything up until my work shifted to management and spending > half my day on Zoom calls. For some reason, I periodically would have issues with peripherals. Picking the wrong mic, having to close and reopen Zoom, correct camera not working, etc. None of this is an issue if you're on a laptop but it regularly was a problem since I used my machine as a desktop all day. I decided I finally need to get a machine with a beefy GPU this year with all of the LLM stuff happening (plus my son is getting into PC gaming) so I bought an Alienware desktop with Windows. First Windows computer I've owned since 2005. Now I have a 3 screen setup where my middle and left screen are the Windows computer, my fully loaded System76 Meerkat is on the right using Barrier and 99% of my development work is remote on that machine. No issues with the peripherals for meetings on the Windows machine. Still greatly prefer the Linux machine for everything else but the reliability of knowing that my peripherals are going to work for meetings has been important. Plus, I started a tech podcast (Carolina Code Cast) and that's been important for all of the A/V that goes with it. All that to say, there are tradeoffs. Eventually, I hope that Linux will have first class peripheral support. I'd like nothing more than to install it on this Alienware machine one day.
- Enginerrrd 3y ago
  >"For some reason, I periodically would have issues with peripherals. Picking the wrong mic, having to close and reopen Zoom, correct camera not working, etc.". This problem is probably even worse on windows for me, FYI.
- totallywrong 3y ago
  Have you tried a modern Fedora? I don't know about Alienware but for me in a wide range of laptops (including Intel Macbook Pros) hardware issues are a thing of the past.
  - brightball 3y ago
    For 90% of things I'd agree with you. When it was plugged into a USB hub that had a couple of cameras, mics and speakers there would be issues. It's entirely possible that the hub itself was a problem but it hasn't been an issue thus far with Windows. I _really_ hoped that WSL would be better than it is when I decided to try this. It's quirky.
sanitycheck 3y ago
I've been having a reasonably good experience with Pop OS, which is Ubuntu-based but different in a bunch of ways. The makers (System76) put it on the computers they sell so they have a strong incentive to make it "just work", and that seems to have mostly worked out well. As someone with years of light Linux experience but no patience for pissing about with config all day, my golden rule is to avoid updating anything ahead of the version that the distro bundles. E.g. no I shall not be updating my Nvidia drivers independently! I like docker for arbitrary command line software I haven't checked the source for, Flatpak (or Snap/AppImage I guess) for big complicated GUI software, and if those aren't options I sometimes run things in a VM if I don't trust them not to screw up the system (hello Tizen Studio!). I ended up installing Blender from Steam, of all places.
moffkalast 3y ago
When you say Ubuntu I presume you mean the default Gnome version? If you're really looking to replace Windows then KDE (i.e. Kubuntu) is far closer in terms of UX and 22.04 is pretty solid in my experience. Still tedious at times of course.
SoylentYellow 3y ago
> My only complaints are that Linux can be tedious After using Linux daily over 10 years now, this is exactly how I feel about Windows now. I instantly get frustrated any time I have to use Windows.
helf 3y ago
[dead]
totallywrong 3y ago
It's the complete opposite for me. With Linux I'm in control of the OS and can make it work the way I like. Sure, you need to know what you're doing but the learning curve these days is rather easy. With Windows and macOS I feel like they're treating me like an idiot and I always have to settle for 80-90% of the behaviour I want if I'm lucky.
pawelduda 3y ago
Same here but the other way. I find Linux much simpler to grasp than endless hard to navigate menus, windows where each is from different land, registry, shell and what not. I rarely use Windows but when I do, it feels like MS either ruined it or I simply forgot how to do things. I used to think like you so I guess it's just a matter of taking the leap and learning new OS Bonus points: no ads, no Edge or Drive bullshit, nearly any small quirk that annoys me can be rid of (which admittely can take some effort BUT it can be done) Example: - Linux: just type the command vetted by hundreds of people on StackOverflow to edit the config file - Windows: open app, click this and that... Where is it? Ohhh outside of screen because it uses super duper stylish gaming UI. Let me change system-wide UI scaling just to see thing I want to toggle. No, there was no way to just drag that window.
- secondcoming 3y ago
  If you’re having to faff about with the registry every day you’re doing it wrong!
  - yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
    If you're having to use the terminal for anything other than your own work (actually even then it should be optional, but I find it easier to run make/gcc/etc. directly vs using an IDE) everyday something has also gone wrong, so I think it's a fair comparison.
  - thomastjeffery 3y ago
    If you are never having to faff about with registry, then you are either lucky or using a different OS. I include installing a fresh copy of Windows to resolve the inevitable corrosion that Windows has over time.
    - pawelduda 3y ago
      > I include installing a fresh copy of Windows to resolve the inevitable corrosion that Windows has over time. Remember that one from the past and countless times I had to do this for others because Windows would become a mess. Nowadays I just upgrade old Linux distros running for 5+ years because of security concerns or out of boredom. Magically still running same as fresh install
secondcoming 3y ago
Linux Mint is quite good. It’s my go to, the UI makes sense
mejutoco 3y ago
I have used the main OS. Linux (plain LTS Ubuntu) has worked way better than anything else, as long as the software was available. With Figma and an iPad I do not need a Mac or Windows anymore. I still have a separate hard disk for Windows for an occasional game. Sometimes I reboot and people are surprised how quick I am back. Also I use only wired accessories, so that might be a factor.
the__alchemist 3y ago
Reading the responses to this comment are interesting; wildly different experiences with Windows and Linux. Likely due to the different use cases involved, hardware the OS is running on, and software/drivers installed. My 2c: If you use common PC hardware with standard peripherals, and stick to software in your distro's package manager, you're fine. Ubuntu and Mint are popular and easy-to-use choices. Most people have an easier time than I do, but it feels irresponsible not to post this; I've been trying Linux every few years for the past 20. My experience hasn't deviated much from this: I've found that once you start installing drivers for non-standard hardware, or installing software not in your package manager, there's a pattern of - C+P text into CLI - Errors - Sudo edit system config files - Browse internet forums, Stack Overflow, and generally channel XKCD: 979. Tens of browser tabs open; hopefully one has the answer. - End up kicked out of the GUI after a reboot - The system is totalled, in that it's easier to do a clean install than fix it. It feels like there's a tension between you're not supposed to use sudo except in special cases and you have to use sudo to do anything.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
Workaccount2 3y ago
I have been switched for a year now, for the 4th? 5th? time in my life, and it looks like I'm gonna end up back on windows once again. The perpetual problem with linux is that it is written and maintained by people who love linux. Its great if you just need a machine to check email, and it's great if you are well versed in linux OS structure and know the CLI command set/structure through and through. But if you are middle of the road power user, linux is just a constant annoying nightmare of reading forum posts and copy+pasting seemingly random strings of characters into the terminal hoping that it will fix the sound issue on the video you're trying to play.
Saris 3y ago
Yeah the control you get over Linux is both good and bad. You can pretty much get it to work exactly how you want, but getting there is very complex, and remembering CLI commands is extremely difficult for me even after many years of doing linux server admin. It's slowly getting better though, things are starting to have sane defaults more often, and there are more easy to use GUI settings for things, instead of needing to deal with stuff that requires having documentation open on the side. My benchmark for 'good' is that I shouldn't have to look at documentation or remember CLI commands to set up and use an OS.
trey-jones 3y ago
About 15 years ago I received the advice, "If you want to be hacker, stop using Windows and start using Linux." Today, I am well aware that this is not the only path to enlightenment, but I count it as some of the best professional advice that I have ever received. This is colored by the direction my career has taken me: the technologies I use are open source, and that fits much better into the Linux box than others. It's also not about writing code. Sure, when using Linux exclusively, sometimes you might have to hack together a little script to make your computer do what you want, but that's really not necessary, especially in the year of our Lord 2023. It's about tooling. So many younger devs that I meet still have irrational fear of the command line. Inability to use built-in documentation (like manpages), and again a fear of trying (because web browsers exist). Worst of all is the lack of understanding that these younger devs have of Unix permissions. We all know the guy who just pastes `chmod -R 777 .` or something from StackExchange. Since most of our production software still lives on Linux, knowing the proper way to configure these environments is valuable (though unfortunately undervalued, in my opinion, since improper configuration can still "work fine"). Using Linux full-time for years will make you more than comfortable. And yes, it probably will take years. You may come to prefer the terminal to most of the GUI wrappers provided in desktop Linux distros. You won't even notice when you come out the other side. You'll realize that everything only seemed like it was 43 commands away because you only knew 2 commands to begin with. Typing the most common commands will be second nature and take less time than moving your hand to the mouse. Anything that does need to be reasoned out and typed slowly you will learn to embed in a script, with comments so you can remember how it works, and that will save you even more time. Most importantly, in the end you will have the confidence in your abilities to write long, condescending comments on Hacker News. I kid of course, but you will no longer fear tooling (though you may grow weary of it - looking at you nodeJS), and I truly believe that's a more important and difficult skill than reading and writing code of all sorts.
globular-toast 3y ago
How long have you been using Windows for? You're "playing around" with Ubuntu and expecting to be as good at it as your full time OS of many years?
torginus 3y ago
My biggest gripe with Linux is that it's an incredibly brittle system that you can easily blow up, either through no fault of my own (a grub update once made my system unbootable), issues which were triggered by trying to work around ubuntu's shortcomings (I installed an nvidia driver from a ppa, which broke my system), or through curious experimentation gone wrong. Combined with the constant weird bugs ranging from annoying to potentially system-breaking, and the lack of resources you have for troubleshooting (because few people use it, and the system changes so fast that existing posts become outdated), it's really hard to fix, too. I honestly try to never update my Linux box, unless I'm prepared to invest time into potentially having to fix it. And Windows' annoying updates are absolutely nothing compared to the daily barrage of packages, each triggering a restart.
weberer 3y ago
I feel the exact opposite. Changing things in Linux is usually just a checkbox in the settings. Whereas changing things in Mac or Windows can be an uphill battle, digging through registry keys, or installing third-party software just to change basic features. For example, how do you rebind the "switch window" hotkey on a Mac from Cmd+Tab to Alt+Tab? There's no way to do it out of the box. You need to install some third party program called AltTab just to set hotkeys. How do you disable tracking in Windows 10? Well here's a 50 step plan. And you better pray that none of these settings will be reset the next time there's a forced update. https://nordvpn.com/blog/disable-windows-10-tracking/ https://nordvpn.com/blog/disable-windows-10-tracking/
- sanitycheck 3y ago
  Your Windows link is interestingly all examples of "just a checkbox in the settings", no registry editing, no group policy fiddling and definitely no obscure DOS/PowerShell commands to paste! (Personally I go further with Win10 - disabling web crap in the start menu does need a registry change. I gather Win11 is worse still.) OTOH a Linux change I wanted to make recently was to rename Gnome's "Files" and "Files" (!) apps to to "Nautilus" and "Nemo" so I could tell the f*king difference. Right-click & rename? Nope! We're in editing-little-files-land straight away.
kstrauser 3y ago
My personal experience has that Windows is easier to get up and running as long as I want to use it as-designed. Getting off that happy path turns into a fiasco for me. I'm sure a lot of my difficulties would be trivial to fix for Windows expert, but I'm not one. For me, it's way easier to bend Linux to my will. (I'm typing this on a Mac. I spent my first months on a Mac trying to make it act like my Linux desktop, and hated it. Then I decided to try a month doing everything the Mac way instead, and ended up loving it. Go figure.)
ATMLOTTOBEER 3y ago
I would recommend Pop OS as a distro that just works. You don’t have to configure anything, and the built in pop shop meets all my software needs.
type0 3y ago
Maybe you should try FreeBSD, it's much more coherent

noir_lord 3y ago

> Perhaps I should have chosen another flavor? That'll ignite a holy war. The trick with linux isn't to learn the flavour, it's to learn linux - once you get an overview of how all the bits work then switching distro is (much) more straightforward. Ubuntu is an excellent first choice because it's one of the major distro's so you'll be able to google stuff more easily. My personal recommendation would be Fedora (and if you want a familiar windows 10 at least in approach GUI) Cinnamon which is excellent.

xattt 3y ago
Any comment on Arch one you get going? I find the documentation quite thorough for the niggly bits, and have used it to troubleshoot Ubuntu (taking into account differences between the distros).
- II2II 3y ago
  I am an Arch enthusiast since I like building my system up and learning how things are put together, but it is not a terribly good platform for learning how to use or manage a Linux system. One of the issues is that you end up with a system is tailored to your own needs. While that sounds great, you have to make an effort to generalize those skills since no one else will have a setup quite like yours.
vorticalbox 3y ago
I have been eyeing up Fedora Onyx for the immutable root
- stingraycharles 3y ago
  You mean Fedora Silverblue? Haven’t heard of Onyx. Edit: ok so I learned about Onyx, which appears to be doing roughly the same thing?
  - palebluedot 3y ago
    There are different spins of Fedora that are immutable and based on rpm-ostree and flatpaks, the variation being the desktop manager environment: * Silverblue: GNOME * Onyx: Budgie * Kinoite: KDE Plasma * Sericea: Sway
    - bryanlarsen 3y ago
      And don't forget the community spins based off ublue, like Bazzite!
- KAMSPioneer 3y ago
  Just installed Onyx yesterday on my work machine! So far so good, some niggles as always (it's my first time using Budgie), but overall fairly usable and easy.
- totallywrong 3y ago
  I've been using an immutable Fedora for quite a while now and it's amazing. I use toolbox and run everything in containers, including GUI apps, so not even using Flatpak which I'm not a big fan of. I think I have like 3 or 4 packages installed on top of the base image. The peace of mind while upgrading can't be overstated. Highly recommended.
  - vorticalbox 3y ago
    I run mongodb for work and that requires openssl1. On Ubuntu I just copy the libs over to /usr/lib But that wouldn't be an option on an immutable system. I will look into toolbox. Edit: looks like tool box is exactly what I'm after!
oldnetguy 3y ago
> That'll ignite a holy war. And that has been the major problem with Linux for years.
- SV_BubbleTime 3y ago
  The duplication of work is staggering. The best people at Mint are working on the same problems as those at Fedora and PopOS and Cube and Suse … infinite loop.
chx 3y ago
Where do I learn modern desktop Linux? I am using it on servers since 1993 and used for desktop 2004-2017 (and was very unhappy with it) so my desktop knowledge is severely outdated.
- blkhawk 3y ago
  I would be really interested what you were unhappy with? the only major thing that truely changed after 2017 was that wine became almost universally compatible. It was freakish how little issues i had in 2019 when i switched completely.
  - antod 3y ago
    2017 was in the early phase of pretty disruptive era with Linux - eg systemd, audio, wayland, app sandboxes etc etc. I get the feeling things are settling now, and stabilising / consolidating into a better place overall with less churn. But for a while things weren't as stable as they typically were before that.
    - blkhawk 3y ago
      I tried wayland maybe a little over a year ago and the copy and paste behavior was bad enough to switch back. I recently switched to get freesync to work on multimonitor and the issue is now manageable. app sandboxes I fell less positive about - I dislike them since I think they are only fixing stuff that is already unaceptable to happen. As for audio - yes while pulseaudio was working i remember some issues with that (mostly related to s/pdiv). This also has lessened with pipewire.
  - chx 3y ago
    Some experiences Ubuntu distupgrade breaks my machine so badly I need to spend days putting it together again Switched to Arch Upgrade. Bluetooth breaks. MFC device breaks. One of the two almost always. Compared to this the only thing I dislike with Windows upgrades is how it can wake up the machine even from S0 state (wtf!) to upgrade and reboot. But aside from that, it's a complete nonevent when it upgrades. It's been near six years and I never had an issue. I had a client using an F5 VPN requiring MFA and there was no MFA support except on Windows. I got it working with an old Firefox running as root (because that supported old style extensions and I managed to find an old extension that worked). The only question regarding this setup was from the head of IT at this company asking but not receiving any responses on how to do this. Weird enterprise wifi always a headache. I just got a GPD G1. Here's my experience getting it to work: 1. Plug in power. 2. Plug in the Thunderbolt cable 3. Install AMD Adrenaline driver only (only step that requires a tiny bit of expertise -- don't install all the stuff) 4. Reboot 5. It works. 6. If I unplug it, machine goes back to the nVidia GPU inside the laptop. No fuss. Tell me true, is this going to work on Linux ? I seriously doubt.
underseacables 3y ago
Thank you, The documentation is really important for me I guess. I feel more comfortable with documentation carefully laid everything out; screenshots are gold. Is there a book that you would recommend that would help a novice like myself learn Linux better?
- aarond0623 3y ago
  IMO, the best way to get comfortable with Linux is to get comfortable with the command line, because although every distribution is going to have different UI and built-in apps, the command line is going to stay pretty consistent. Also, a lot of troubleshooting you Google is going to involve interacting with the command line, and it's essential to understand what the commands you're executing are actually doing. I'd recommend The Linux Command Line by William Schotts to get started.
  - TrueSlacker0 3y ago
    And that right there is why Linux is so frustrating to start with. It is easier to solve most problems via command line however a normal user should never ever have to touch a command line. Everything for a common person should be easily accessible via a gui.
    - veqq 3y ago
      > Everything for a common person should be easily accessible via a gui. They are. Just there are many different GUIs. Each distro by definition has different ones and you can easily change them yourself etc. There are dozens of sound GUIs, hell, I've tried 4 redshift GUIs before settling on QRedshift. It's so easy to write software for Linux that you have countless opportunities. That's why the command line is easier - it always works(ish).
  - blowfish721 3y ago
    Was trying to configure a network bridge for a vm just the other day from cli. The guide (for Ubuntu which I was also using) was using nmcli (Network Manager), tried it and command not found, back to searching and was nudged to systemd networking by stackoverflow which didnt work either. Turns out that my system was using Netplan. Three different systems to handle networking, really? Ok, chatgpt convert this nmcli command to netplan, sure here you go just put this in your netplan config file and apply config. Ends up with a botched network config on a headless system.

okr 3y ago

No worries. I have installed windows 11 lately and i find it tedious. It constantly wants to register me somewhere, it asks me to have this as standard, and it is always updating something and asks me to reboot. And why i cant remove certain things from my taskbar? So, i guess, we both have out difficulties. Like always.

eldaisfish 3y ago
i really dislike this line of reasoning. Windows has a much larger installed base so finding support and solutions are pretty easy. Whether that is a video, a blog or a forum, you can always find someone with the same problem. No, windows nagging you to register is not in the same ballpark as your audio not working or your video resolution changing with multiple monitors. No, windows updates adding or removing features are not equivalent to the problems linux has, many of which are showstoppers. You're trying to be snarky and this is one reason why so many regular Joes are reluctant to adopt linux. you never know when you will need the terminal and when you will encounter an unhelpful response like this.
- okr 3y ago
  So serious. I find the linux community indeed very resourceful. And the ones for windows, after you have clicked thousands of banners away, that tell you the workaround for avoiding the registering after a long text of nothing, i find them resourceful too. My point was, that it is always difficult to enter a new domain. So it is a shared pain.
  - eldaisfish 3y ago
    My limited point here is that linux has a lot of problems that are showstoppers. You sometimes cannot do what you want to do. The average person cares about about usability first. Visually, linux is excellent and very useable. The problem is, should things go wrong, the level of technical skill needed to use community resources is relatively high.
    - 3y ago

bmicraft 3y ago

Ubuntu is mostly fine and a good middle ground for new users between bleeding edge (Arch, Fedora) and outdated software (Debian) IMHO. It's also probably the best place to start simply because of the mountains of documentation that exist for it because of its large userbase. I would also like to add that often you'll find answers to stuff telling you to use a couple of commands when instead you could use existing gui tools. That might be because commands are faster for people that already know them, but often they're not the only way.

underseacables 3y ago
I deeply appreciate the GUIs.
pmontra 3y ago
Instructions like type "this and that" in a terminal are short and perfectly reproducible. Instructions like open Settings, find This, click that" are less precise and could leave people stuck halfway. Even on Windows forums there are often NET USE or Powershell commands mixed with instructions to perform the same task using GUI apps.

worthless-trash 3y ago

What kinda tasks are you talking about here, that requires N commands, sometimes tasks do actually take that many options because you're doing more complex things than you could without the CLI.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

bottled_poe 3y ago

I hear you, but windows seems like a black box in a lot of ways. I don’t have any trust that what it tells me about running processes is accurate. Under Linux I feel like I am actually in control of the machine on a much greater scale. And I’m sure you know know what they say about great power..

asimovfan 3y ago

Interesting, my experience is the opposite.. since windows 10 came out it became almost unusable and problematic with random stuff, even after debloating scripts. Ubuntu has been my go to system for a while now, and i basically just want to watch YouTube and edit text.

gumballindie 3y ago

> My only complaints are that Linux can be tedious, everything is just 43 commands away Perhaps your training was done with chatgpt or some other procedural text generator because that hasn't been the case for quite a while now. Some people should stick with poorly engineered operating systems such as Windows, since stepping out of one's comfort zone is not for everyone. Some people _need_ to be told what to do and how to think in all aspects of life.

sanitycheck 3y ago
43's an exaggeration, but when something goes wrong the command-line is generally the only way to fix it even in the friendliest of distros. In the old days in order to effectively use Linux at all anyone would have had to become familiar with the terminal and how it all works. Nowadays users only have to do that when something goes wrong - and of course that's great progress, but it does mean that those users are less prepared to deal with issues. It's also easier to get help than it used ("RTFM n00b") to be, but that help is almost always in the form of some arcane command without any explanation of what it is, so it doesn't really help anyone learn. Personally I'd like to see all this stuff hooked up to a GUI, with easily accessible docs for everything built in. (I think Windows is actually quite good, unfortunately parts of Microsoft have become very user-hostile. I wish they'd just say "buy the new Windows! It's $200, we'll support it for 6 years, it will have no ads, it won't require any "cloud" and it will not harvest your personal data.")
- gumballindie 3y ago
  > Personally I'd like to see all this stuff hooked up to a GUI, with easily accessible docs for everything built in. That is indeed something i’d also like to see more of, but the number of times when i needed the command line is quite low. Ironically I have more issues with my windows install on a very modern laptop - drivers suck, need to use the command line to disable windows built in spyware, file sharing is flakey and so on. My linux machines all work. Linux on the same laptop just works. Also linux not being a commercial os is expected to have some issues around the edges but overall it beats windows in all technical areas except where vendor lock in kicks in.

INTPenis 3y ago

I'm a Poweruser of Linux since the late 90s and I can tell you that if you're a Windows or Mac poweruser with zero Linux experience, you're not going to have a good time in Linux. Linux has come amazingly far, but I still wouldn't recommend it for everyone. It's all about context. You're a power user so you're going to want to do advanced things, which requires total immersion in a completely different ecosystem. But my 80 year old father on the other hand, he just wants to edit documents, scan images, browse facebook and play solitaire. He can run Fedora Silverblue with no problems.

loudmax 3y ago

Most of your interaction with your computer is via the Desktop Environment. Which is Gnome in a default Ubuntu installation. If you're not particularly interested in exploring alternate operating system philosophies, I'd recommend looking into other Desktop Environments to use on Ubuntu. In particular, I'd recommend XFCE or Mate since they behave conventionally. One thing to understand when moving from a proprietary to an open source OS is how much control you have over the system. Just about any part of it can be disabled or upgraded or swapped out for something different. If you learn where the seams are and how the different pieces work together, it gives you far greater control over your computer than any proprietary OS. If you expect everything to just work, you may be setting yourself up for disappointment.

jaeckel 3y ago

As also stated by others you should start learning the basic concepts and no specific flavor/distro to understand how everything fits together. You sound like someone who could very well succeed in that, since you didn't give up yet :) I can only recommend starting to read https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Installation_guide https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Installation_guide Once I installed arch I never looked back. I heard good things of the rolling distros of Suse and Fedora as well, but arch feels more vanilla than the others to me. If you have a lot of time and passion you could also have a run of linux from scratch. You do it once for the learning part and then choose a distro of your liking.

horeszko 3y ago
"Once I installed arch I never looked back" I'm also very fond of Arch Linux and I use it on my laptop. However Arch is very much DIY and is great for the person who wants to get their hands dirty because with Arch you assemble and maintain the installation yourself. For someone who wants things to work out of the box with no (or minimal) tinkering, I would recommend a different distro. Arch is a distro for learners and enthusiasts. But it would be frustrating for someone who just wants a working OS.
- mdhen 3y ago
  If you want the primary benefit of arch (AUR, best package manager repo) but don't want to do a custom set up then Manjaro is a very good choice.

hospitalJail 3y ago

>My only complaints are that Linux can be tedious, everything is just 43 commands away That is because you are using Ubuntu which is a prehistoric Linux OS. Try Fedora Cinnamon. People complain about linux, but are using something that is designed to be a decade old for 'stability'. Meanwhile I have 0 issues with Fedora Cinnamon's stability, I think Ubuntu + children are cashing in on name recognition. Its time to move on.

PoignardAzur 3y ago

I've had good results out-of-the-box with PopOS, an Ubuntu variant.

kibwen 3y ago

> Windows and OSX have, for the most part, just worked I bought a System76 machine running their own PopOS distro and everything Just Works as I'd expect, with the added benefit of actually having the ability to muck around with the innards of my system when I want to, unlike Mac or Windows, which are increasingly locked-down, opaque, and user-hostile. Neither Apple nor Microsoft are consumer desktop OS-focused companies these days; the former is a mostly a phone manufacturer and the latter is a confusing mess that might be best described as an enterprise software company. They have no material incentive to care about the quality of Mac or Windows, and it shows; their desktop OSes are afterthoughts.

FirmwareBurner 3y ago
>I bought a System76 machine running their own PopOS distro and everything Just Works as I'd expect Including touchpad gestures and browser hardware video acceleration out of the box?
- kibwen 3y ago
  It has touchpad gestures, and I even used a GUI program (I think it's called Touche, trivially installed via the app store) to customize the gestures further (it's quite powerful, it lets you assign arbitrary keys or shell scripts to gestures and scope them by context, e.g. I assigned four-finger swipe left/right to Alt+Left/Right while inside Firefox to perform back/forward navigation (this was before Firefox started shipping with gestures natively)). As for browser hardware video acceleration, I sure hope so (the model I got has a beefy GPU) but I'm not sure how to check, and in any case I reflexively watch all videos in 480p after years of watching my old Windows laptop overheat while trying to decode video so I'm the wrong person to ask. :P
- amlib 3y ago
  Firefox has hardware video decoding enabled by default on linux for years now, only google chrome doesn't want to bother doing the work to enable it. That said, in some cases hardware video decoding may be unavailable due to IP issues that forbid the necessary code to be distributed freely.

znpy 3y ago

> With Linux it can feel like I'm fighting with the system at times. All your points are valid, and it's been a meme for a while now that the year of linux on the desktop is always next year. HOWEVER, consider the following: When you're on linux you're fighthing the shortcomings of the operating system (and learning stuff as you go) where as when you're on Windows/MacOS you're fighting companies actively trying to screw you over (and over and over again, always in new ways). The question now becomes: what fight are you willing to fight?

unsungNovelty 3y ago

I have been using using Linux for 16 years in total and 7+ years as my primary OS. Ubuntu itself is a performance hog due to snaps. And Ubuntu is NOT beginner friendly. As an ex-IT guy and as a linux enthusiast, It was not when I deployed it to developers and tech people in my company. And it is not beginner friendly when I install it to my friends & family. I used to use Ubuntu for work until last week. Used it because of the worry for Ubuntu compatibility since most work related tools etc supports Ubuntu if you want to use Linux at work. It used to use 7.5-8GB ram and >40% CPU. So I switched to Linux Mint. It is based off Ubuntu but it is faster & is better for UX. And I have been using Linux Mint since monday. Ram usage wend down to only max 6GB RAM and <25% CPU usage. For the same workload. Since it is Ubuntu compatible, Linux Mint will support all those work related stuff for which they need Ubuntu for. And I have a lot of horror stories with Ubuntu. I recommend Linux Mint if you want point release distro. It literally takes care of you and works OOTB. The only problem is it doesn't have wayland support yet. If you have the time to invest (which I think you don't since you mentioned tedious), and only if you have time, I recommend Arch Linux. Another green flag is to prefer community led/oriented Linux flavours over corporate funded for long term UX. Way too many cuts and bleeds to trust a corporate run Linux distro. CentOS and Ubuntu being the latest ones. The only exception so far has been OpenSuse IMO. And I have heard good things about POPOS as well. I haven't used it to comment on it though. I really see FreeBSD as my north star. But it is not yet there for my work and desktop usecases.

jorvi 3y ago
Arch is terrible due to their bare testing package release policy. Generally accepted recommends: - Windows converts: Mint - General: Fedora / PopOS - Rolling: Suse Tumbleweed - Config fanatics: Nix - Minimalistic fanatics: Void / Alpine
- unsungNovelty 3y ago
  > Arch is terrible due to their bare testing package release policy. It is NOT. This is biggest mystery I have about people's perception about Arch Linux. Arch provides latest upstream stable packages unlike point releases. NOT developer branches of packages BUT STABLE versions of package as soon as it is available. Point releases like ubuntu gives you old versions of software. And backport security patches against that version from latest stable packages which again leads to possible bugs etc etc. Apart from Linux, you will never see anyone calling a latest stable version of a software as "bleeding edge". You don't say iOS 17 as bleeding edge. It is the latest stable version of the iOS. Windows 11 is not bleeding edge, it is the latest stable version of windows OS. I have a 5+ year installation Arch installation from which I am writing this comment. It is fast easier to use and predictable. Point releases always give you a easy jumpstart and it is often a pain to maintain in the longer run. Arch definitely requires initial time investment (It is after all a DIY distro, not a managed distro), but it is easier to maintain. I use Arch because I am lazy. I don't want unpredicatable changes. I don't think I am going to complain getting firefox 119 (which is the latest STABLE version at the time of writing) within a week or two. Especially in these times where we should be using latest packages for security and stability. Also repost for Linux distros (like stable/unstable/testing) is testing a package against the distro. It is NOT checking the stability of the software itself. It is checking the stability of a software/packages against a particular distro.

pjmlp 3y ago

As ex-UNIX zealot, that came back into Windows around Windows 7, and then settled to use GNU/Linux from VMWare, Windows has gotten worse, but still not bad enough for me to use GNU/Linux as main OS. Just last weekend I have spent a good part of it fixing the way installing clang messed up with Ubuntu's system clang, plugged via LAN cable, because after all these years my little Asus netbook still cannot keep a stable WLAN connection to my router.

ajross 3y ago

So... your complaints are about Linux as a desktop, direct-use environment. The linked article is about a datacenter device (or at least a dedicated build box, virtually all 7995WX chips are going to be deployed headless for sure). But for sure all the skills you need to use to deploy and administer a dedicated 96 core monster are for sure ones you can productively apply to install packages or whatnot on your Ubuntu/Fedora/Arch/Mint/whatever laptop. But also, all that said: if you want a Linux laptop where everything "normal" works with no fuss, just buy a Chromebook.

brightball 3y ago

YMMV. I switched off of OSX as my primary machine around 2015 and moved to full time Linux. Just decided to commit and fully dove in. I tried several different flavors for months at a time from Fedora to Ubuntu. Eventually I settled on PopOS. I was really happy with everything up until my work shifted to management and spending > half my day on Zoom calls. For some reason, I periodically would have issues with peripherals. Picking the wrong mic, having to close and reopen Zoom, correct camera not working, etc. None of this is an issue if you're on a laptop but it regularly was a problem since I used my machine as a desktop all day. I decided I finally need to get a machine with a beefy GPU this year with all of the LLM stuff happening (plus my son is getting into PC gaming) so I bought an Alienware desktop with Windows. First Windows computer I've owned since 2005. Now I have a 3 screen setup where my middle and left screen are the Windows computer, my fully loaded System76 Meerkat is on the right using Barrier and 99% of my development work is remote on that machine. No issues with the peripherals for meetings on the Windows machine. Still greatly prefer the Linux machine for everything else but the reliability of knowing that my peripherals are going to work for meetings has been important. Plus, I started a tech podcast (Carolina Code Cast) and that's been important for all of the A/V that goes with it. All that to say, there are tradeoffs. Eventually, I hope that Linux will have first class peripheral support. I'd like nothing more than to install it on this Alienware machine one day.

Enginerrrd 3y ago
>"For some reason, I periodically would have issues with peripherals. Picking the wrong mic, having to close and reopen Zoom, correct camera not working, etc.". This problem is probably even worse on windows for me, FYI.
totallywrong 3y ago
Have you tried a modern Fedora? I don't know about Alienware but for me in a wide range of laptops (including Intel Macbook Pros) hardware issues are a thing of the past.
- brightball 3y ago
  For 90% of things I'd agree with you. When it was plugged into a USB hub that had a couple of cameras, mics and speakers there would be issues. It's entirely possible that the hub itself was a problem but it hasn't been an issue thus far with Windows. I _really_ hoped that WSL would be better than it is when I decided to try this. It's quirky.

sanitycheck 3y ago

I've been having a reasonably good experience with Pop OS, which is Ubuntu-based but different in a bunch of ways. The makers (System76) put it on the computers they sell so they have a strong incentive to make it "just work", and that seems to have mostly worked out well. As someone with years of light Linux experience but no patience for pissing about with config all day, my golden rule is to avoid updating anything ahead of the version that the distro bundles. E.g. no I shall not be updating my Nvidia drivers independently! I like docker for arbitrary command line software I haven't checked the source for, Flatpak (or Snap/AppImage I guess) for big complicated GUI software, and if those aren't options I sometimes run things in a VM if I don't trust them not to screw up the system (hello Tizen Studio!). I ended up installing Blender from Steam, of all places.

moffkalast 3y ago

When you say Ubuntu I presume you mean the default Gnome version? If you're really looking to replace Windows then KDE (i.e. Kubuntu) is far closer in terms of UX and 22.04 is pretty solid in my experience. Still tedious at times of course.

SoylentYellow 3y ago

> My only complaints are that Linux can be tedious After using Linux daily over 10 years now, this is exactly how I feel about Windows now. I instantly get frustrated any time I have to use Windows.

helf 3y ago

[dead]

totallywrong 3y ago

It's the complete opposite for me. With Linux I'm in control of the OS and can make it work the way I like. Sure, you need to know what you're doing but the learning curve these days is rather easy. With Windows and macOS I feel like they're treating me like an idiot and I always have to settle for 80-90% of the behaviour I want if I'm lucky.

pawelduda 3y ago

Same here but the other way. I find Linux much simpler to grasp than endless hard to navigate menus, windows where each is from different land, registry, shell and what not. I rarely use Windows but when I do, it feels like MS either ruined it or I simply forgot how to do things. I used to think like you so I guess it's just a matter of taking the leap and learning new OS Bonus points: no ads, no Edge or Drive bullshit, nearly any small quirk that annoys me can be rid of (which admittely can take some effort BUT it can be done) Example: - Linux: just type the command vetted by hundreds of people on StackOverflow to edit the config file - Windows: open app, click this and that... Where is it? Ohhh outside of screen because it uses super duper stylish gaming UI. Let me change system-wide UI scaling just to see thing I want to toggle. No, there was no way to just drag that window.

secondcoming 3y ago
If you’re having to faff about with the registry every day you’re doing it wrong!
- yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
  If you're having to use the terminal for anything other than your own work (actually even then it should be optional, but I find it easier to run make/gcc/etc. directly vs using an IDE) everyday something has also gone wrong, so I think it's a fair comparison.
- thomastjeffery 3y ago
  If you are never having to faff about with registry, then you are either lucky or using a different OS. I include installing a fresh copy of Windows to resolve the inevitable corrosion that Windows has over time.
  - pawelduda 3y ago
    > I include installing a fresh copy of Windows to resolve the inevitable corrosion that Windows has over time. Remember that one from the past and countless times I had to do this for others because Windows would become a mess. Nowadays I just upgrade old Linux distros running for 5+ years because of security concerns or out of boredom. Magically still running same as fresh install

secondcoming 3y ago

Linux Mint is quite good. It’s my go to, the UI makes sense

mejutoco 3y ago

I have used the main OS. Linux (plain LTS Ubuntu) has worked way better than anything else, as long as the software was available. With Figma and an iPad I do not need a Mac or Windows anymore. I still have a separate hard disk for Windows for an occasional game. Sometimes I reboot and people are surprised how quick I am back. Also I use only wired accessories, so that might be a factor.

the__alchemist 3y ago

Reading the responses to this comment are interesting; wildly different experiences with Windows and Linux. Likely due to the different use cases involved, hardware the OS is running on, and software/drivers installed. My 2c: If you use common PC hardware with standard peripherals, and stick to software in your distro's package manager, you're fine. Ubuntu and Mint are popular and easy-to-use choices. Most people have an easier time than I do, but it feels irresponsible not to post this; I've been trying Linux every few years for the past 20. My experience hasn't deviated much from this: I've found that once you start installing drivers for non-standard hardware, or installing software not in your package manager, there's a pattern of - C+P text into CLI - Errors - Sudo edit system config files - Browse internet forums, Stack Overflow, and generally channel XKCD: 979. Tens of browser tabs open; hopefully one has the answer. - End up kicked out of the GUI after a reboot - The system is totalled, in that it's easier to do a clean install than fix it. It feels like there's a tension between you're not supposed to use sudo except in special cases and you have to use sudo to do anything.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

Workaccount2 3y ago

I have been switched for a year now, for the 4th? 5th? time in my life, and it looks like I'm gonna end up back on windows once again. The perpetual problem with linux is that it is written and maintained by people who love linux. Its great if you just need a machine to check email, and it's great if you are well versed in linux OS structure and know the CLI command set/structure through and through. But if you are middle of the road power user, linux is just a constant annoying nightmare of reading forum posts and copy+pasting seemingly random strings of characters into the terminal hoping that it will fix the sound issue on the video you're trying to play.

Saris 3y ago

Yeah the control you get over Linux is both good and bad. You can pretty much get it to work exactly how you want, but getting there is very complex, and remembering CLI commands is extremely difficult for me even after many years of doing linux server admin. It's slowly getting better though, things are starting to have sane defaults more often, and there are more easy to use GUI settings for things, instead of needing to deal with stuff that requires having documentation open on the side. My benchmark for 'good' is that I shouldn't have to look at documentation or remember CLI commands to set up and use an OS.

trey-jones 3y ago

About 15 years ago I received the advice, "If you want to be hacker, stop using Windows and start using Linux." Today, I am well aware that this is not the only path to enlightenment, but I count it as some of the best professional advice that I have ever received. This is colored by the direction my career has taken me: the technologies I use are open source, and that fits much better into the Linux box than others. It's also not about writing code. Sure, when using Linux exclusively, sometimes you might have to hack together a little script to make your computer do what you want, but that's really not necessary, especially in the year of our Lord 2023. It's about tooling. So many younger devs that I meet still have irrational fear of the command line. Inability to use built-in documentation (like manpages), and again a fear of trying (because web browsers exist). Worst of all is the lack of understanding that these younger devs have of Unix permissions. We all know the guy who just pastes `chmod -R 777 .` or something from StackExchange. Since most of our production software still lives on Linux, knowing the proper way to configure these environments is valuable (though unfortunately undervalued, in my opinion, since improper configuration can still "work fine"). Using Linux full-time for years will make you more than comfortable. And yes, it probably will take years. You may come to prefer the terminal to most of the GUI wrappers provided in desktop Linux distros. You won't even notice when you come out the other side. You'll realize that everything only seemed like it was 43 commands away because you only knew 2 commands to begin with. Typing the most common commands will be second nature and take less time than moving your hand to the mouse. Anything that does need to be reasoned out and typed slowly you will learn to embed in a script, with comments so you can remember how it works, and that will save you even more time. Most importantly, in the end you will have the confidence in your abilities to write long, condescending comments on Hacker News. I kid of course, but you will no longer fear tooling (though you may grow weary of it - looking at you nodeJS), and I truly believe that's a more important and difficult skill than reading and writing code of all sorts.

globular-toast 3y ago

How long have you been using Windows for? You're "playing around" with Ubuntu and expecting to be as good at it as your full time OS of many years?

torginus 3y ago

My biggest gripe with Linux is that it's an incredibly brittle system that you can easily blow up, either through no fault of my own (a grub update once made my system unbootable), issues which were triggered by trying to work around ubuntu's shortcomings (I installed an nvidia driver from a ppa, which broke my system), or through curious experimentation gone wrong. Combined with the constant weird bugs ranging from annoying to potentially system-breaking, and the lack of resources you have for troubleshooting (because few people use it, and the system changes so fast that existing posts become outdated), it's really hard to fix, too. I honestly try to never update my Linux box, unless I'm prepared to invest time into potentially having to fix it. And Windows' annoying updates are absolutely nothing compared to the daily barrage of packages, each triggering a restart.

weberer 3y ago

I feel the exact opposite. Changing things in Linux is usually just a checkbox in the settings. Whereas changing things in Mac or Windows can be an uphill battle, digging through registry keys, or installing third-party software just to change basic features. For example, how do you rebind the "switch window" hotkey on a Mac from Cmd+Tab to Alt+Tab? There's no way to do it out of the box. You need to install some third party program called AltTab just to set hotkeys. How do you disable tracking in Windows 10? Well here's a 50 step plan. And you better pray that none of these settings will be reset the next time there's a forced update. https://nordvpn.com/blog/disable-windows-10-tracking/ https://nordvpn.com/blog/disable-windows-10-tracking/

sanitycheck 3y ago
Your Windows link is interestingly all examples of "just a checkbox in the settings", no registry editing, no group policy fiddling and definitely no obscure DOS/PowerShell commands to paste! (Personally I go further with Win10 - disabling web crap in the start menu does need a registry change. I gather Win11 is worse still.) OTOH a Linux change I wanted to make recently was to rename Gnome's "Files" and "Files" (!) apps to to "Nautilus" and "Nemo" so I could tell the f*king difference. Right-click & rename? Nope! We're in editing-little-files-land straight away.

kstrauser 3y ago

My personal experience has that Windows is easier to get up and running as long as I want to use it as-designed. Getting off that happy path turns into a fiasco for me. I'm sure a lot of my difficulties would be trivial to fix for Windows expert, but I'm not one. For me, it's way easier to bend Linux to my will. (I'm typing this on a Mac. I spent my first months on a Mac trying to make it act like my Linux desktop, and hated it. Then I decided to try a month doing everything the Mac way instead, and ended up loving it. Go figure.)

ATMLOTTOBEER 3y ago

I would recommend Pop OS as a distro that just works. You don’t have to configure anything, and the built in pop shop meets all my software needs.

type0 3y ago

Maybe you should try FreeBSD, it's much more coherent