6 ms·

Promoting Anthropic and putting down OpenAI doesn't make her better at her job. Her job isn't self promotion.

by ipaddr 3y ago

0xDEAFBEAD 3y ago
Is Helen associated with Anthropic?
- mikehotel 3y ago
  Apparently an indirect association. From [0]: Fall 2021 Holden Karnofsky resigns from the Board, citing a potential conflict because his wife, Daniela Amodei, is helping start Anthropic, a major OpenAI competitor, with her brother Dario Amodei. (They all live(d) together.) The exact date of Holden’s resignation is unknown; there was no contemporaneous press release. Between October and November 2021, Holden was quietly removed from the list of Board Directors on the OpenAI website, and Helen was added (Discussion Source [1]). 0. https://loeber.substack.com/p/a-timeline-of-the-openai-board https://loeber.substack.com/p/a-timeline-of-the-openai-board 1. https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/fmDFytmxwX9qBgcaX/why-aren-t-you-freaking-out-about-openai-at-what-point-would?commentId=KavuL7Q5qdvxoYSsd https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/fmDFytmxwX9qBgcaX/...
  - jacquesm 3y ago
    Don't tell me there is another polycule in there somewhere.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
winenbug 3y ago
Unless she has equity in Anthropic (which would be major conflict of interest), I don't see how this is self promotion...?
- snapwood 3y ago
  I'm guessing the reasoning is something like this... As a CEO I'd want your concerns brought to me so they could be addressed. But if they were addressed, that is one less paper that could be published by Ms. Toner. As a member of the openai board, seeing the problem solved is more important to openai than her publishing career.
  - nicce 3y ago
    On the other hand, you create more pressure for solving the problem by publishing acknowledged paper, if your voice is not usually heard
    - dchftcs 3y ago
      She's a board member. Who had approximately 1/4 of the power to fire Sam, and she did eventually exert it. Why do you rather assume her voice was not heard?
      - nicce 3y ago
        You should assume that most of this happened before the firings. Then it was 1/6 about the voting. But voting is totally different thing than speaking about concerns and then getting actually them into the list, which will we voted further if they decide to do something about it. In theory that is 1/6 * 1/6 power if you are alone with it for the decision to happen.
        dchftcs 3y ago
        I still see no justification for assuming that the board member's voice was not heard before the publication. There's zero evidence for it, while the priors ought to be favoring the contrary because she does wield a fairly material form of power. If more evidence does emerge, then we could revisit the premise.
        3y ago
svnt 3y ago
> Her job isn’t self promotion Isn’t she an academic? Getting people to pay attention to her is at least half her job.

Promoting Anthropic and putting down OpenAI doesn't make her better at her job. Her job isn't self promotion.

by ipaddr 3y ago

Promoting Anthropic and putting down OpenAI doesn't make her better at her job. Her job isn't self promotion.

0xDEAFBEAD 3y ago

Is Helen associated with Anthropic?

mikehotel 3y ago
Apparently an indirect association. From [0]: Fall 2021 Holden Karnofsky resigns from the Board, citing a potential conflict because his wife, Daniela Amodei, is helping start Anthropic, a major OpenAI competitor, with her brother Dario Amodei. (They all live(d) together.) The exact date of Holden’s resignation is unknown; there was no contemporaneous press release. Between October and November 2021, Holden was quietly removed from the list of Board Directors on the OpenAI website, and Helen was added (Discussion Source [1]). 0. https://loeber.substack.com/p/a-timeline-of-the-openai-board https://loeber.substack.com/p/a-timeline-of-the-openai-board 1. https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/fmDFytmxwX9qBgcaX/why-aren-t-you-freaking-out-about-openai-at-what-point-would?commentId=KavuL7Q5qdvxoYSsd https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/fmDFytmxwX9qBgcaX/...
- jacquesm 3y ago
  Don't tell me there is another polycule in there somewhere.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

winenbug 3y ago

Unless she has equity in Anthropic (which would be major conflict of interest), I don't see how this is self promotion...?

snapwood 3y ago
I'm guessing the reasoning is something like this... As a CEO I'd want your concerns brought to me so they could be addressed. But if they were addressed, that is one less paper that could be published by Ms. Toner. As a member of the openai board, seeing the problem solved is more important to openai than her publishing career.
- nicce 3y ago
  On the other hand, you create more pressure for solving the problem by publishing acknowledged paper, if your voice is not usually heard
  - dchftcs 3y ago
    She's a board member. Who had approximately 1/4 of the power to fire Sam, and she did eventually exert it. Why do you rather assume her voice was not heard?
    - nicce 3y ago
      You should assume that most of this happened before the firings. Then it was 1/6 about the voting. But voting is totally different thing than speaking about concerns and then getting actually them into the list, which will we voted further if they decide to do something about it. In theory that is 1/6 * 1/6 power if you are alone with it for the decision to happen.
      - dchftcs 3y ago
        I still see no justification for assuming that the board member's voice was not heard before the publication. There's zero evidence for it, while the priors ought to be favoring the contrary because she does wield a fairly material form of power. If more evidence does emerge, then we could revisit the premise.
        3y ago

svnt 3y ago

> Her job isn’t self promotion Isn’t she an academic? Getting people to pay attention to her is at least half her job.