4 ms·

So happy for him. If they're using the dollar massively on the black market, why not tether? Having said that, he has so little support in parliament its hard t

So happy for him. If they're using the dollar massively on the black market, why not tether? Having said that, he has so little support in parliament its hard to tell what he'll get through.

jowea 3y ago
Sometimes I wonder about why some populist candidates seem to have so much more trouble electing people to parliament than themselves to the presidency.
- jerojero 3y ago
  Because these are candidates that rely on themselves as individuals instead of collective projects.
  - jowea 3y ago
    Sure but even then, what goes in the head of someone voting for the "take a wrecking ball to the establishment" candidate and then votes for a traditional party candidate for parliament? Why can't those populists point out they will need the legislative to actually do much?
    - jerojero 3y ago
      There was an interview going around online: They are talking to a woman that's about to go into a public bus, she says "I can't live without the transportation subsidy, I would literally not be able to afford the commute and I need to commute to go to work. It's essential to me" so the interviewer asks her who she's voting for then she says "Milei. I'm voting Milei". Funny thing is, one of the promises of Milei was precisely to take away the transportation subsidy. And it's not something that people weren't aware of. Of course, everyone knew. What goes on in the head of someone that clearly relies on a government program and has decided to vote for a politician that will take that away? I think, obviously, asking what goes on in the head of voters is a silly question. You're presupposing that voters are rational and logical, and they're not. Representative elections are all about feelings, not thoughts. People are voting for the outsider candidate because they're sick of the same politicians doing the same things that always lead to nothing. But hey, turns out voting for the outside candidate is not going to make things better at all, in fact, it's just gonna make things worse and when this happens the opposite side will come back with their "we told you" message. Just for the cycle to repeat again. So, I think you have the wrong framing. People are literally not thinking. But obviously our political system only works if people "think". It's a systemic failure, voting for representatives this way just doesn't work. It doesn't work in Argentina, it doesn't work in France, it doesn't work in the US. Our representative democracies are collapsing, and it's not going to get better.
      - GauntletWizard 3y ago
        > What goes on in the head of someone that clearly relies on a government program and has decided to vote for a politician that will take that away? Human Decency.
      - HerbMcM 3y ago
        >What goes on in the head of someone that clearly relies on a government program and has decided to vote for a politician that will take that away? You may see "I'm voting against my own interests" but I see the flipside of that woman with the bus subsidy: "Our money is so worthless and our economy so terrible, the government has to intervene even in bus fare just to keep things going".
      - megaman821 3y ago
        What point are you trying to make? That is good that people need to rely on a transportation subsidy, a food subsidy, a housing subsidy and if they vote against more subsidies they are voting against their interest. Maybe people aren't ok where thinking like that lead to.
        jerojero 3y ago
        What point are you trying to make? This person was literally telling the journalist how she NEEDS this subsidies to be able to live; what's she going to do when it goes away? Do you think she will magically become able to pay for the commute? Argentina has a lot of problems, of course it does, but if people need help it's not because they're "living off the state" it's because even with the jobs they have they don't have enough to live. This is very much a different set of problems that's unrelated to subsidies to healthcare, education and public transportation. Of course there's a lot of unnecessary handouts in Argentina, for one, gasoline is way too cheap (for example). This money is effectively helping out the people that have the most money in the country (because the poor use the public transportation, they don't drive their own cars) and would be a good angle to start tackling the financial irresponsibility problem. Do you think Milei will get rid of the subsidies to gas? Well, he's not mentioned it. I'm not making an assumption here on what she might be thinking, I'm saying she is effectively voting against her own interests by her own words. If you look at reasons why people are voting for Milei it's not because "Argentina needs to stop having a strong-state", it's because people are sick of the politicians that are offered by "the other side". They don't want traditional politicians from any side, and at this point, Milei is the one that presented himself as an alternative. It might very well be an extreme-leftist that rises to power; it just so happens that right now it's the right wing and the libertarians that have a much better understanding of these "outsider" dynamics; a lot of it spear-headed by Trump in 2016 and then Bolsonaro in 2019. But I'm not going to be surprised when we start the actual extreme left raising up in a few years because it'll be the exact same phenomenon just with another sign.
- wslh 3y ago
  Javier Milei is an outlier. He built its presidency in a few years and with orders of magnitude less financing that the current official government. This is not an endorsement for Milei but a recognition of an unique phenomenon. Beyond the well known Austrian school of economics there are Argentinian referents as Juan Bautista Alberdi [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Bautista_Alberdi?wprov=sfti1# https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Bautista_Alberdi?wprov=sf...
gus_massa 3y ago
> why not tether? Initially pesos were fully backed [1]. <voice=Mingo>"Un peso = Un dolar"</voice>. [1] I think it was 100% of the M1, not the M2.
- Izikiel43 3y ago
  Back to the 90s
wslh 3y ago
Not Tether because it does not have the transparency required for handling reserves.
- solarkraft 3y ago
  I think "tether" was used as a verb here; not to refer to the dodgy asset named after said verb.
narag 3y ago
...he has so little support in parliament its hard to tell what he'll get through. From now to next midterm parliament elections he'll need to play his cards carefully, negotiating with the other right-wing coalition and even then, he'll be short of some votes. Also the left is going to set the streets on fire. But if he can show some progress in these first two years...
Pxtl 3y ago
> So happy for him. Really? I get that if he can pull off dollarization that may be good news for Argentina, but the man is a complete maniac. This is like if Americans elected Tucker Carlson. The man is a complete wingnut.

So happy for him. If they're using the dollar massively on the black market, why not tether? Having said that, he has so little support in parliament its hard to tell what he'll get through.

jowea 3y ago

Sometimes I wonder about why some populist candidates seem to have so much more trouble electing people to parliament than themselves to the presidency.

jerojero 3y ago
Because these are candidates that rely on themselves as individuals instead of collective projects.
- jowea 3y ago
  Sure but even then, what goes in the head of someone voting for the "take a wrecking ball to the establishment" candidate and then votes for a traditional party candidate for parliament? Why can't those populists point out they will need the legislative to actually do much?
  - jerojero 3y ago
    There was an interview going around online: They are talking to a woman that's about to go into a public bus, she says "I can't live without the transportation subsidy, I would literally not be able to afford the commute and I need to commute to go to work. It's essential to me" so the interviewer asks her who she's voting for then she says "Milei. I'm voting Milei". Funny thing is, one of the promises of Milei was precisely to take away the transportation subsidy. And it's not something that people weren't aware of. Of course, everyone knew. What goes on in the head of someone that clearly relies on a government program and has decided to vote for a politician that will take that away? I think, obviously, asking what goes on in the head of voters is a silly question. You're presupposing that voters are rational and logical, and they're not. Representative elections are all about feelings, not thoughts. People are voting for the outsider candidate because they're sick of the same politicians doing the same things that always lead to nothing. But hey, turns out voting for the outside candidate is not going to make things better at all, in fact, it's just gonna make things worse and when this happens the opposite side will come back with their "we told you" message. Just for the cycle to repeat again. So, I think you have the wrong framing. People are literally not thinking. But obviously our political system only works if people "think". It's a systemic failure, voting for representatives this way just doesn't work. It doesn't work in Argentina, it doesn't work in France, it doesn't work in the US. Our representative democracies are collapsing, and it's not going to get better.
    - GauntletWizard 3y ago
      > What goes on in the head of someone that clearly relies on a government program and has decided to vote for a politician that will take that away? Human Decency.
    - HerbMcM 3y ago
      >What goes on in the head of someone that clearly relies on a government program and has decided to vote for a politician that will take that away? You may see "I'm voting against my own interests" but I see the flipside of that woman with the bus subsidy: "Our money is so worthless and our economy so terrible, the government has to intervene even in bus fare just to keep things going".
    - megaman821 3y ago
      What point are you trying to make? That is good that people need to rely on a transportation subsidy, a food subsidy, a housing subsidy and if they vote against more subsidies they are voting against their interest. Maybe people aren't ok where thinking like that lead to.
      - jerojero 3y ago
        What point are you trying to make? This person was literally telling the journalist how she NEEDS this subsidies to be able to live; what's she going to do when it goes away? Do you think she will magically become able to pay for the commute? Argentina has a lot of problems, of course it does, but if people need help it's not because they're "living off the state" it's because even with the jobs they have they don't have enough to live. This is very much a different set of problems that's unrelated to subsidies to healthcare, education and public transportation. Of course there's a lot of unnecessary handouts in Argentina, for one, gasoline is way too cheap (for example). This money is effectively helping out the people that have the most money in the country (because the poor use the public transportation, they don't drive their own cars) and would be a good angle to start tackling the financial irresponsibility problem. Do you think Milei will get rid of the subsidies to gas? Well, he's not mentioned it. I'm not making an assumption here on what she might be thinking, I'm saying she is effectively voting against her own interests by her own words. If you look at reasons why people are voting for Milei it's not because "Argentina needs to stop having a strong-state", it's because people are sick of the politicians that are offered by "the other side". They don't want traditional politicians from any side, and at this point, Milei is the one that presented himself as an alternative. It might very well be an extreme-leftist that rises to power; it just so happens that right now it's the right wing and the libertarians that have a much better understanding of these "outsider" dynamics; a lot of it spear-headed by Trump in 2016 and then Bolsonaro in 2019. But I'm not going to be surprised when we start the actual extreme left raising up in a few years because it'll be the exact same phenomenon just with another sign.
wslh 3y ago
Javier Milei is an outlier. He built its presidency in a few years and with orders of magnitude less financing that the current official government. This is not an endorsement for Milei but a recognition of an unique phenomenon. Beyond the well known Austrian school of economics there are Argentinian referents as Juan Bautista Alberdi [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Bautista_Alberdi?wprov=sfti1# https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Bautista_Alberdi?wprov=sf...

gus_massa 3y ago

> why not tether? Initially pesos were fully backed [1]. <voice=Mingo>"Un peso = Un dolar"</voice>. [1] I think it was 100% of the M1, not the M2.

Izikiel43 3y ago
Back to the 90s

wslh 3y ago

Not Tether because it does not have the transparency required for handling reserves.

solarkraft 3y ago
I think "tether" was used as a verb here; not to refer to the dodgy asset named after said verb.

narag 3y ago

...he has so little support in parliament its hard to tell what he'll get through. From now to next midterm parliament elections he'll need to play his cards carefully, negotiating with the other right-wing coalition and even then, he'll be short of some votes. Also the left is going to set the streets on fire. But if he can show some progress in these first two years...

Pxtl 3y ago

> So happy for him. Really? I get that if he can pull off dollarization that may be good news for Argentina, but the man is a complete maniac. This is like if Americans elected Tucker Carlson. The man is a complete wingnut.