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The board were literally doing their job. Anyone claiming incompetence is just mistaken about the stated goal of openai: safe available agi for all. Throw in a

The board were literally doing their job. Anyone claiming incompetence is just mistaken about the stated goal of openai: safe available agi for all. Throw in a huge investment, a 90 billion dollar valuation and a rockstar ceo. It’s pretty clear the court of public opinion is wrong about this case.

cyanydeez 3y ago
they likely could have negotiated it better, but I agree, all these Altman fans really suggest the cult of business sapping any nonprofit motive.
- junofan 3y ago
  Their actions were reckless and irresponsible. They are currently picking their successors. The incompetence is staggering regardless of motive.
  - rvnx 3y ago
    We're still waiting for the explanations from Altman about the alleged involvement in spending time on conflicting companies while he is CEO at OpenAI. According to FT this could be the cause for the firing: “Sam has a company called Oklo, and [was trying to launch] a device company and a chip company (for AI). The rank and file at OpenAI don’t dispute those are important. The dispute is that OpenAI doesn’t own a piece. If he’s making a ton of money from companies around OpenAI there are potential conflicts of interest.”
    - junofan 3y ago
      I don’t see how that factors in. What matters is OpenAI’s enterprise customers reading about a boardroom coup in the WSJ. Completely avoidable destruction of value.
      - dimask 3y ago
        This is toatlly irrelevant to the board's initial decision though.
        ekosz 3y ago
        I think what people in this thread and others are trying to say is that to run a organization like OpenAI you need lots and lots funding. AI research is incredibly costly due to highly paid researchers and an ungodly amount of GPU resources. To put all current funding at risk by pissing off current investors and enterprise customers puts the whole mission of the organization at risk. That's where the perceived incompetence comes from no mater how good the intentions are.
        junofan 3y ago
        Exactly. Add to that the personal smearing of one person and it seems like a very unnecessarily negative maneuver.
        dimask 3y ago
        I understand that. What is missing is the purpose of running such an organisation. OpenAI has achieved a lot, but is it going to the direction and towards the purpose it was founded on? I do not see how one can argue that. For a non-profit, creating value is a means to a goal, not a goal in itself (as opposed to a for-profit org). People thinking that the problem of this move is that it destroys value for openAI showcase the real issue perfectly.
        junofan 3y ago
        It is a complete departure from past stated means without clear justification.
        dimask 3y ago
        Some would say it is the opposite way around. Mission of openAI was not supposed to be maximising profit/value. Especially if it can be argued that this exactly goes against its original purpose.
    - hotnfresh 3y ago
      Isn’t it amazing how companies worry about lowly, ordinary employees moonlighting, but C-suiters and board members being involved in several ventures is totally normal?
- dimask 3y ago
  It is hard to negotiate when the investors and for-profit part basically has much more power. They tried to bring them in front of a fait accompli situation, as this was their only chance, but they seem to have failed. I do not think they had a better move in the current situation right now, sadly.
  - junofan 3y ago
    Why’d they smear Sam? Couldn’t they have released a statement saying they just don’t see eye to eye anymore?
    - dimask 3y ago
      You do not fire a CEO because you hold some personal grudges towards them. You fire them because they do something wrong. And I do not see any evidence or indication of smearing Altman, unless they lie about (ie I do not see any indication of them lying about it).
skygazer 3y ago
Competence is generally about effectiveness of execution, and less about intent. This was a foreseeable hot mess executed with staggering naïveté.
- asdfman123 3y ago
  For sure. What league did they think they were playing in?
- aunty_helen 3y ago
  No it wasn’t. For a long time Sam was the guy. Then, he progressively sold more and more of the companies future to Ms. You don’t need chatgpt and it’s massive gpu consumption to achieve the goals of openai. A small research team and a few million, this company becomes a quaint quiet overachiever. The company started to hockey stick and everyone did what they knew, Sam got the investment and money. The tech team hunkered down and delivered gpt-4 and soon -5 Was there a different path? Maybe. Was there a path that didn’t lead to selling the company for “laundry buddy”, maybe also. On the other hand, Ms knew what they were getting into when its hundredth lawyer signed off on the investment. To now turn around as surprised pikachu when the board starts to do its job and their man on the ground gets the boot is laughable.
  - skygazer 3y ago
    You're arguing their most viable path was to fire him, wreak havoc and immediately seek to rehire and further empower him whilst diminishing themselves in the process? It's so convoluted, it just might work! Whether fulfilling their mission or succumbing to palace intrigue, it was a gamble they took. If they didn't realize it was a gamble, then they didn't think hard enough first. If they did realize the risks, but thought they must, then they didn't explore their options sufficiently. They thought their hand was unbeatable. They never even opened the playbook.
    - aunty_helen 3y ago
      No, I’m not???
tyrfing 3y ago
That's not their stated goal, you're misinterpreting it by changing the wording.
- aunty_helen 3y ago
  Sorry, I read a quote from one of the people involved in this mess and assumed it was direct from the company charter. Can you fill me in as to what the goal of OpenAI is?
  - tyrfing 3y ago
    > Creating safe AGI that benefits all of humanity Benefit and available can have very different meaning when you mix in alignment/safety concerns.
aitrw 3y ago
>safe available agi for all. And they can pick two. Gpus don't grow on trees so without billions in funding they can't provide it to everyone. Available means that I should have access to the weights. Safe means they want to control what people can use it for. The board prioritised safe over everything else. I fundamentally disagree with that and welcome the counter coup.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

cyanydeez 3y ago

they likely could have negotiated it better, but I agree, all these Altman fans really suggest the cult of business sapping any nonprofit motive.

junofan 3y ago
Their actions were reckless and irresponsible. They are currently picking their successors. The incompetence is staggering regardless of motive.
- rvnx 3y ago
  We're still waiting for the explanations from Altman about the alleged involvement in spending time on conflicting companies while he is CEO at OpenAI. According to FT this could be the cause for the firing: “Sam has a company called Oklo, and [was trying to launch] a device company and a chip company (for AI). The rank and file at OpenAI don’t dispute those are important. The dispute is that OpenAI doesn’t own a piece. If he’s making a ton of money from companies around OpenAI there are potential conflicts of interest.”
  - junofan 3y ago
    I don’t see how that factors in. What matters is OpenAI’s enterprise customers reading about a boardroom coup in the WSJ. Completely avoidable destruction of value.
    - dimask 3y ago
      This is toatlly irrelevant to the board's initial decision though.
      - ekosz 3y ago
        I think what people in this thread and others are trying to say is that to run a organization like OpenAI you need lots and lots funding. AI research is incredibly costly due to highly paid researchers and an ungodly amount of GPU resources. To put all current funding at risk by pissing off current investors and enterprise customers puts the whole mission of the organization at risk. That's where the perceived incompetence comes from no mater how good the intentions are.
        junofan 3y ago
        Exactly. Add to that the personal smearing of one person and it seems like a very unnecessarily negative maneuver.
        dimask 3y ago
        I understand that. What is missing is the purpose of running such an organisation. OpenAI has achieved a lot, but is it going to the direction and towards the purpose it was founded on? I do not see how one can argue that. For a non-profit, creating value is a means to a goal, not a goal in itself (as opposed to a for-profit org). People thinking that the problem of this move is that it destroys value for openAI showcase the real issue perfectly.
      - junofan 3y ago
        It is a complete departure from past stated means without clear justification.
        dimask 3y ago
        Some would say it is the opposite way around. Mission of openAI was not supposed to be maximising profit/value. Especially if it can be argued that this exactly goes against its original purpose.
  - hotnfresh 3y ago
    Isn’t it amazing how companies worry about lowly, ordinary employees moonlighting, but C-suiters and board members being involved in several ventures is totally normal?
dimask 3y ago
It is hard to negotiate when the investors and for-profit part basically has much more power. They tried to bring them in front of a fait accompli situation, as this was their only chance, but they seem to have failed. I do not think they had a better move in the current situation right now, sadly.
- junofan 3y ago
  Why’d they smear Sam? Couldn’t they have released a statement saying they just don’t see eye to eye anymore?
  - dimask 3y ago
    You do not fire a CEO because you hold some personal grudges towards them. You fire them because they do something wrong. And I do not see any evidence or indication of smearing Altman, unless they lie about (ie I do not see any indication of them lying about it).

skygazer 3y ago

Competence is generally about effectiveness of execution, and less about intent. This was a foreseeable hot mess executed with staggering naïveté.

asdfman123 3y ago
For sure. What league did they think they were playing in?
aunty_helen 3y ago
No it wasn’t. For a long time Sam was the guy. Then, he progressively sold more and more of the companies future to Ms. You don’t need chatgpt and it’s massive gpu consumption to achieve the goals of openai. A small research team and a few million, this company becomes a quaint quiet overachiever. The company started to hockey stick and everyone did what they knew, Sam got the investment and money. The tech team hunkered down and delivered gpt-4 and soon -5 Was there a different path? Maybe. Was there a path that didn’t lead to selling the company for “laundry buddy”, maybe also. On the other hand, Ms knew what they were getting into when its hundredth lawyer signed off on the investment. To now turn around as surprised pikachu when the board starts to do its job and their man on the ground gets the boot is laughable.
- skygazer 3y ago
  You're arguing their most viable path was to fire him, wreak havoc and immediately seek to rehire and further empower him whilst diminishing themselves in the process? It's so convoluted, it just might work! Whether fulfilling their mission or succumbing to palace intrigue, it was a gamble they took. If they didn't realize it was a gamble, then they didn't think hard enough first. If they did realize the risks, but thought they must, then they didn't explore their options sufficiently. They thought their hand was unbeatable. They never even opened the playbook.
  - aunty_helen 3y ago
    No, I’m not???

tyrfing 3y ago

That's not their stated goal, you're misinterpreting it by changing the wording.

aunty_helen 3y ago
Sorry, I read a quote from one of the people involved in this mess and assumed it was direct from the company charter. Can you fill me in as to what the goal of OpenAI is?
- tyrfing 3y ago
  > Creating safe AGI that benefits all of humanity Benefit and available can have very different meaning when you mix in alignment/safety concerns.

aitrw 3y ago

>safe available agi for all. And they can pick two. Gpus don't grow on trees so without billions in funding they can't provide it to everyone. Available means that I should have access to the weights. Safe means they want to control what people can use it for. The board prioritised safe over everything else. I fundamentally disagree with that and welcome the counter coup.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]