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Paul Graham: Nonprofits Are a Magnet for Sociopaths

8 points by behnamoh 3y ago

Michelangelo11 3y ago
If so, this would apply to Sam -and- Ilya -and- everyone else in key positions at OpenAI ...
m_ke 3y ago
So are financial institutions, including VC firms and incubators.
Slava_Propanei 3y ago
[dead]
ZunarJ5 3y ago
https://new-archives.org/carol-zou-movement-narcissism https://new-archives.org/carol-zou-movement-narcissism
bloopernova 3y ago
(2019)
ilaksh 3y ago
I think it's a bit over the top to apply it to the current topic. I don't know Sutskever personally but I think that he was trying to be responsible and had a right to be kept in the loop as per the way the organization was formed. Same with the people that backed him up. I think that's very different from being a sociopath. Same for Altman. If he is a sociopath then he may also be one the greatest actors of all time. I'm not saying I think what they did was a good plan or that I believe the GPT Store or GPT 4.5 is going to take over the world. But I just think that from the perspective of safety-oriented people it was probably fair to evaluate the trajectory as dangerous and to try to reign it in a bit. Personally, though, thinking short term, I hope Altman comes back and we get a GPT Store soon. I also hope that open source models continue to improve and serious safety research continues full speed.
threeseed 3y ago
Another interesting take backed by little evidence in the real world. The most egregious abuses of morality have come from for-profit startup CEOs. Especially with the "move fast and break things" attitude that YC has helped to cultivate.
WheelsAtLarge 3y ago
I've worked for for-profit businesses. I've seen Sociopaths climb the ladder faster than anyone else. It's not for-profit or nonprofit that attracts Sociopaths, it's the search for power and the advantage that you can climb faster if you don't care who you hurt. Sociopathy is a superpower in business.
altpaddle 3y ago
I'd be willing to bet that the average corporate exec or VC is more of a sociopath than the average nonprofit leader/board member
SuperNinKenDo 3y ago
I personally agree with this, from my limited experience. I would push back slightly though, and say they're a magnet for people with personality disorders, like sociopathy or more often just narcisism. Their character gives these people incredible validation and a lot of social capital. They also create an environment in which they're able to more effectively manipulate, exploit, and bully people. That said, I love working at nonprofits. Edit: I don't have any position on how this applies to recent event though. From my limited understanding of those, it's simply a difference of opinion.

8 points by behnamoh 3y ago

Michelangelo11 3y ago

If so, this would apply to Sam -and- Ilya -and- everyone else in key positions at OpenAI ...

m_ke 3y ago

So are financial institutions, including VC firms and incubators.

Slava_Propanei 3y ago

[dead]

ZunarJ5 3y ago

https://new-archives.org/carol-zou-movement-narcissism https://new-archives.org/carol-zou-movement-narcissism

bloopernova 3y ago

(2019)

ilaksh 3y ago

I think it's a bit over the top to apply it to the current topic. I don't know Sutskever personally but I think that he was trying to be responsible and had a right to be kept in the loop as per the way the organization was formed. Same with the people that backed him up. I think that's very different from being a sociopath. Same for Altman. If he is a sociopath then he may also be one the greatest actors of all time. I'm not saying I think what they did was a good plan or that I believe the GPT Store or GPT 4.5 is going to take over the world. But I just think that from the perspective of safety-oriented people it was probably fair to evaluate the trajectory as dangerous and to try to reign it in a bit. Personally, though, thinking short term, I hope Altman comes back and we get a GPT Store soon. I also hope that open source models continue to improve and serious safety research continues full speed.

threeseed 3y ago

Another interesting take backed by little evidence in the real world. The most egregious abuses of morality have come from for-profit startup CEOs. Especially with the "move fast and break things" attitude that YC has helped to cultivate.

WheelsAtLarge 3y ago

I've worked for for-profit businesses. I've seen Sociopaths climb the ladder faster than anyone else. It's not for-profit or nonprofit that attracts Sociopaths, it's the search for power and the advantage that you can climb faster if you don't care who you hurt. Sociopathy is a superpower in business.

altpaddle 3y ago

I'd be willing to bet that the average corporate exec or VC is more of a sociopath than the average nonprofit leader/board member

SuperNinKenDo 3y ago

I personally agree with this, from my limited experience. I would push back slightly though, and say they're a magnet for people with personality disorders, like sociopathy or more often just narcisism. Their character gives these people incredible validation and a lot of social capital. They also create an environment in which they're able to more effectively manipulate, exploit, and bully people. That said, I love working at nonprofits. Edit: I don't have any position on how this applies to recent event though. From my limited understanding of those, it's simply a difference of opinion.