9 ms·

What got me recently was the fee to select a seat on a flight. I'm traveling with my family, including a 12 yo kid. Am I going to let her sit between two strang

What got me recently was the fee to select a seat on a flight. I'm traveling with my family, including a 12 yo kid. Am I going to let her sit between two strange men for the flight? Of course not! So I have no choice but to pay the $50/seat (or whatever the amount was) so we can all sit together. This is criminal! Who will be held responsible if my kid gets assaulted in the flight?

jrockway 3y ago
The upside of this is that you save $50 on your flight if you're willing to sit alone in a middle seat, thus making air travel more accessible to more people. $50 means a lot to some people. It's really all about how you perceive this. You see it as a hidden cost, others see it as a discount.
- bruceb 3y ago
  This is right. Cheap seats enable lower income people to travel. Airfare is (generally) cheaper than when it was regulated. That being said the US rule that requires airlines to give you 24hr window to cancel a flight after booking is great.
- eigenvector 3y ago
  It's not a hidden charge because as you said, you can still travel without paying it. And it provides a method of price discrimination between people who care where they sit and those who don't. A hidden charge would be if you had to pay for seat selection to sit anywhere at all and it wasn't included in the original price.
- dghlsakjg 3y ago
  The problem is that the person that a kid gets put next to isn’t a babysitter, and shouldn’t have to be one. I don’t want to have to explain to a kid that they need to put their phone in silent or use headphones, I don’t want to have to keep them from kicking the seat in front of them, etc. The reality is that there is a base level of decency that should exist. That includes not splitting up children from their guardians. If you want to charge people for picking their seats, fine. Charging parents to not be separated from their kids is just plain evil. Choosing your seat for $50, and seating a person with their legal companion (or disability aide), even if you didn’t pay extra, are possible at the same time. As an aside, I’m not entirely convinced that my ticket is $50 less than it would have been with seating fees.
  - brewdad 3y ago
    It is quite obviously $50 cheaper. The people who picked their seats paid that $50. Again, you have an option here. If you must sit with you're party, you pay the fee. This isn't a junk fee. It is clearly presented when you select the type of ticket you wish to purchase. Your complaint has to do with price discrimination. Different levels of service have different prices the same way a Volkswagen costs less than an Audi made in the same factory.
    - dghlsakjg 3y ago
      You might have missed my point about the $50. I’m not saying it’s a junk fee, I’m saying it’s abusive to charge it to guardians of children. I’m also wondering if before the fee was added as an option the price was $50 more since everyone got to choose their seat. I suspect that the fare is about the same, but now you get to pay $50 more to choose your seat. You are also missing that there is an external cost of splitting up parents and children. The airline is shifting the cost of babysitting onto other passengers when it should be forced to be a responsibility/cost of the guardian. By the logic of the airline if I don't get to pick my seat, and get placed next to a minor, shouldn’t I get compensated more for that than someone who is sat next to a person who doesn’t need my assistance in an emergency? Should I also get compensated for not getting a drink, what about if I don’t use the restroom. At a certain point, it is ok to say that a part of living in society is that you don’t get to separate parents from their children. I understand the economic argument (You’ve used “price discrimination” incorrectly here, incidentally, since price discrimination has to do with receiving the same product at a different price, not receiving an additional service for an additional price). I’m just saying that this is irresponsible and unethical corporate behavior even if it is economically maximizing profit (in the short term anyway)
      - boring_twenties 3y ago
        How is babysitting the child next to you your problem? Just put your noise canceling headphones on and ignore them. If they're kicking the seat in front of them, that person can complain to the flight attendant or whatever
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
4bpp 3y ago
The assailant, one would hope and expect?
ezfe 3y ago
Airlines will book you together if seats still remain together...They're not gonna split you up just for the fun of it. Only way to guarantee seats remain together is to select seats ahead of time. People complain about "junk fees" because they're mandatory parts of the cost. If a website is upfront about a benefit you're losing, it's not a junk fee. Lastly, these basic fares are really designed for single travelers on a tight budget with fixed plans. Delta's website makes this clear, and websites that don't make it clear really should.
- CaptainMarvel 3y ago
  lol no - eg. Ryanair does split you up for “reasons”.
- gnicholas 3y ago
  The question is whether it is understood up front that there is a type of ticket that doesn’t allow seat selection, and that the customer has selected that type of ticket. Until the last few years, this wasn’t even a thing in the US on major airlines. Then United launched their Basic/Shitty Economy and it’s been a race to the bottom ever since.
- cycomanic 3y ago
  Are you sure the people complaining didn't prbook seats. I recommend you look at the fine print. Selecting seats does in no way guarantee you the seat that you have selected. I have seen cases where people who prebooked seats got split up, and didn't get a refund for the selection either.
  - FireBeyond 3y ago
    Qatar openly describes their top tier status as having a benefit of "if you want any seat, taken or not, it's yours (unless another top tier person is sitting there)".
  - ezfe 3y ago
    I'm aware that the fine print says "if we have to, we will screw you over" but I fly over a dozen flights a year (108 in my Flighty app) and never had a problem. Airlines have moved me, but they always confirm who I'm flying with and it's always an upgrade to get another group together.
jghn 3y ago
This leads to another awful behavior. Have seen too many instances, including by friends of mine, where instead of paying the uncharge they let the airline assign seats. And then they put up a fuss when people won't swap seats with them when they board. What's worse, often the flight attendants will side with these people. As someone who always pays extra to choose my seat, no. It is not my problem if people can't be bothered to do the same thing.
- FireBeyond 3y ago
  Don't even start me on Southwest, where a bunch of people will fill up window, aisle, down the plane, so good luck to you if you board later with two or more in your party.
  - brewdad 3y ago
    That's been Southwest's business model for 40 years or more. It's not a secret and they do allow you to pay extra to board first. Otherwise, you need to check-in right when it opens. If that isn't acceptable to you there are other airlines.
    - Tommstein 3y ago
      > Otherwise, you need to check-in right when it opens. Does that always work? I flew on Southwest a few times recently, and by the last one, I learned to check in right when it opened 24 hours before, and I still ended up in groups B and C on the 2 legs.
      - sq_ 3y ago
        It almost always used to, but in the last year or so it’s been much less reliable for me. I think it’s probably a mix of more people having status because of COVID causing the airlines to extend their rewards periods and then more people deciding to pay the $25 ish to not have to deal with checking in on time.
fbdab103 3y ago
Assaulted on a flight? Stranger danger, I guess, but this seems like a very low odds event.
- 1024core 3y ago
  Just in the past few months alone: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/airlines-flight-sexual-assault-allegations-1.6992734 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/airlines-flight-sexua... https://www.miamiherald.com/news/state/florida/article279873354.html https://www.miamiherald.com/news/state/florida/article279873... https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/mumbai/woman-groped-midair-5th-such-case-in-3-months/articleshow/103561243.cms https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/mumbai/woman-groped... https://nypost.com/2023/06/07/doc-allegedly-gropes-woman-on-plane-before-proposing-to-girlfriend/ https://nypost.com/2023/06/07/doc-allegedly-gropes-woman-on-... https://abc7chicago.com/delta-airlines-flight-lawsuit-sexual-assault/13579863/ https://abc7chicago.com/delta-airlines-flight-lawsuit-sexual... https://www.deccanherald.com/india/karnataka/bengaluru/51-year-old-man-held-for-molesting-minor-girl-on-flight-in-bengaluru-1232747.html https://www.deccanherald.com/india/karnataka/bengaluru/51-ye... https://news.yahoo.com/alaska-based-army-officer-charged-220500741.html https://news.yahoo.com/alaska-based-army-officer-charged-220... https://www.clickorlando.com/news/local/2023/06/23/california-man-convicted-for-assaulting-teen-girl-on-orlando-flight/ https://www.clickorlando.com/news/local/2023/06/23/californi... I could go on...
  - jghn 3y ago
    How many of those involve unattended kids?
  - fbdab103 3y ago
    There are ~3 million US airline passengers per day. This does not seem like it refutes the point that these are low odds. I can also probably find some news reports of cannibals nabbing people at the grocery store. Does not mean I am going to avoid shopping.
    - 1024core 3y ago
terminous 3y ago
> This is criminal! Who will be held responsible if my kid gets assaulted in the flight? I was with you until you went off the deep end here.
- bruceb 3y ago
  Following the stated logic the parent could be charged for child endangerment for not paying the extra $50.
lodovic 3y ago
They should advertise it as a $50 discount if you let them assign your seat instead.

jrockway 3y ago

The upside of this is that you save $50 on your flight if you're willing to sit alone in a middle seat, thus making air travel more accessible to more people. $50 means a lot to some people. It's really all about how you perceive this. You see it as a hidden cost, others see it as a discount.

bruceb 3y ago
This is right. Cheap seats enable lower income people to travel. Airfare is (generally) cheaper than when it was regulated. That being said the US rule that requires airlines to give you 24hr window to cancel a flight after booking is great.
eigenvector 3y ago
It's not a hidden charge because as you said, you can still travel without paying it. And it provides a method of price discrimination between people who care where they sit and those who don't. A hidden charge would be if you had to pay for seat selection to sit anywhere at all and it wasn't included in the original price.
dghlsakjg 3y ago
The problem is that the person that a kid gets put next to isn’t a babysitter, and shouldn’t have to be one. I don’t want to have to explain to a kid that they need to put their phone in silent or use headphones, I don’t want to have to keep them from kicking the seat in front of them, etc. The reality is that there is a base level of decency that should exist. That includes not splitting up children from their guardians. If you want to charge people for picking their seats, fine. Charging parents to not be separated from their kids is just plain evil. Choosing your seat for $50, and seating a person with their legal companion (or disability aide), even if you didn’t pay extra, are possible at the same time. As an aside, I’m not entirely convinced that my ticket is $50 less than it would have been with seating fees.
- brewdad 3y ago
  It is quite obviously $50 cheaper. The people who picked their seats paid that $50. Again, you have an option here. If you must sit with you're party, you pay the fee. This isn't a junk fee. It is clearly presented when you select the type of ticket you wish to purchase. Your complaint has to do with price discrimination. Different levels of service have different prices the same way a Volkswagen costs less than an Audi made in the same factory.
  - dghlsakjg 3y ago
    You might have missed my point about the $50. I’m not saying it’s a junk fee, I’m saying it’s abusive to charge it to guardians of children. I’m also wondering if before the fee was added as an option the price was $50 more since everyone got to choose their seat. I suspect that the fare is about the same, but now you get to pay $50 more to choose your seat. You are also missing that there is an external cost of splitting up parents and children. The airline is shifting the cost of babysitting onto other passengers when it should be forced to be a responsibility/cost of the guardian. By the logic of the airline if I don't get to pick my seat, and get placed next to a minor, shouldn’t I get compensated more for that than someone who is sat next to a person who doesn’t need my assistance in an emergency? Should I also get compensated for not getting a drink, what about if I don’t use the restroom. At a certain point, it is ok to say that a part of living in society is that you don’t get to separate parents from their children. I understand the economic argument (You’ve used “price discrimination” incorrectly here, incidentally, since price discrimination has to do with receiving the same product at a different price, not receiving an additional service for an additional price). I’m just saying that this is irresponsible and unethical corporate behavior even if it is economically maximizing profit (in the short term anyway)
    - boring_twenties 3y ago
      How is babysitting the child next to you your problem? Just put your noise canceling headphones on and ignore them. If they're kicking the seat in front of them, that person can complain to the flight attendant or whatever

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

4bpp 3y ago

The assailant, one would hope and expect?

ezfe 3y ago

Airlines will book you together if seats still remain together...They're not gonna split you up just for the fun of it. Only way to guarantee seats remain together is to select seats ahead of time. People complain about "junk fees" because they're mandatory parts of the cost. If a website is upfront about a benefit you're losing, it's not a junk fee. Lastly, these basic fares are really designed for single travelers on a tight budget with fixed plans. Delta's website makes this clear, and websites that don't make it clear really should.

CaptainMarvel 3y ago
lol no - eg. Ryanair does split you up for “reasons”.
gnicholas 3y ago
The question is whether it is understood up front that there is a type of ticket that doesn’t allow seat selection, and that the customer has selected that type of ticket. Until the last few years, this wasn’t even a thing in the US on major airlines. Then United launched their Basic/Shitty Economy and it’s been a race to the bottom ever since.
cycomanic 3y ago
Are you sure the people complaining didn't prbook seats. I recommend you look at the fine print. Selecting seats does in no way guarantee you the seat that you have selected. I have seen cases where people who prebooked seats got split up, and didn't get a refund for the selection either.
- FireBeyond 3y ago
  Qatar openly describes their top tier status as having a benefit of "if you want any seat, taken or not, it's yours (unless another top tier person is sitting there)".
- ezfe 3y ago
  I'm aware that the fine print says "if we have to, we will screw you over" but I fly over a dozen flights a year (108 in my Flighty app) and never had a problem. Airlines have moved me, but they always confirm who I'm flying with and it's always an upgrade to get another group together.

jghn 3y ago

This leads to another awful behavior. Have seen too many instances, including by friends of mine, where instead of paying the uncharge they let the airline assign seats. And then they put up a fuss when people won't swap seats with them when they board. What's worse, often the flight attendants will side with these people. As someone who always pays extra to choose my seat, no. It is not my problem if people can't be bothered to do the same thing.

FireBeyond 3y ago
Don't even start me on Southwest, where a bunch of people will fill up window, aisle, down the plane, so good luck to you if you board later with two or more in your party.
- brewdad 3y ago
  That's been Southwest's business model for 40 years or more. It's not a secret and they do allow you to pay extra to board first. Otherwise, you need to check-in right when it opens. If that isn't acceptable to you there are other airlines.
  - Tommstein 3y ago
    > Otherwise, you need to check-in right when it opens. Does that always work? I flew on Southwest a few times recently, and by the last one, I learned to check in right when it opened 24 hours before, and I still ended up in groups B and C on the 2 legs.
    - sq_ 3y ago
      It almost always used to, but in the last year or so it’s been much less reliable for me. I think it’s probably a mix of more people having status because of COVID causing the airlines to extend their rewards periods and then more people deciding to pay the $25 ish to not have to deal with checking in on time.

fbdab103 3y ago

Assaulted on a flight? Stranger danger, I guess, but this seems like a very low odds event.

1024core 3y ago
Just in the past few months alone: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/airlines-flight-sexual-assault-allegations-1.6992734 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/airlines-flight-sexua... https://www.miamiherald.com/news/state/florida/article279873354.html https://www.miamiherald.com/news/state/florida/article279873... https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/mumbai/woman-groped-midair-5th-such-case-in-3-months/articleshow/103561243.cms https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/mumbai/woman-groped... https://nypost.com/2023/06/07/doc-allegedly-gropes-woman-on-plane-before-proposing-to-girlfriend/ https://nypost.com/2023/06/07/doc-allegedly-gropes-woman-on-... https://abc7chicago.com/delta-airlines-flight-lawsuit-sexual-assault/13579863/ https://abc7chicago.com/delta-airlines-flight-lawsuit-sexual... https://www.deccanherald.com/india/karnataka/bengaluru/51-year-old-man-held-for-molesting-minor-girl-on-flight-in-bengaluru-1232747.html https://www.deccanherald.com/india/karnataka/bengaluru/51-ye... https://news.yahoo.com/alaska-based-army-officer-charged-220500741.html https://news.yahoo.com/alaska-based-army-officer-charged-220... https://www.clickorlando.com/news/local/2023/06/23/california-man-convicted-for-assaulting-teen-girl-on-orlando-flight/ https://www.clickorlando.com/news/local/2023/06/23/californi... I could go on...
- jghn 3y ago
  How many of those involve unattended kids?
- fbdab103 3y ago
  There are ~3 million US airline passengers per day. This does not seem like it refutes the point that these are low odds. I can also probably find some news reports of cannibals nabbing people at the grocery store. Does not mean I am going to avoid shopping.
  - 1024core 3y ago

terminous 3y ago

> This is criminal! Who will be held responsible if my kid gets assaulted in the flight? I was with you until you went off the deep end here.

bruceb 3y ago
Following the stated logic the parent could be charged for child endangerment for not paying the extra $50.

lodovic 3y ago

They should advertise it as a $50 discount if you let them assign your seat instead.