6 ms·

I'm in a hotel in Clearwater Florida right now. The coffee shop added an automatic and mandatory 19% gratuity. I always thought I was only forced to pay 18%!

by xrd 3y ago

I'm in a hotel in Clearwater Florida right now. The coffee shop added an automatic and mandatory 19% gratuity. I always thought I was only forced to pay 18%! The buffet this morning did the same thing. The receipt says "18% is gratuity, 1% is for operating costs." I thought paying for a meal included the operating costs. I'm shocked to find out those were provided for free up to this point, I feel so grateful that the restaurants didn't need to pass these on to me. And, I'm a little surprised that neither of these two experiences required anything from the servers other than handing me or my kids a drink. I assume this is because this hotel probably has a lot of tourists from countries where they don't tip. And, I always tip my barista at least 20% but that's because I go to the same place and know them beyond just as a server, and a hotel in Clearwater will never foster that relationship between anyone.

lsaferite 3y ago
Mandatory gratuity for a non-tipped employees should be 100% forbidden.
- Analemma_ 3y ago
  Who is a "tipped versus non-tipped employee"? I think for servers coming to your table it's actually spelled out in law, for everything else it's a social convention that businesses can try to shove in one direction.
  - jfengel 3y ago
    It is a legal distinction. In most places there is a lower minimum wage for tipped employees. The law says what jobs qualify for the tipped minimum. (Legally, they have to make up the difference if you didn't make enough in tips. But most servers make more than that via tips, which is why they often fight efforts to eliminate tipping.)
    - bobthepanda 3y ago
      Also, wage theft is one of the most common things that happens to restaurant workers, because a lot of employers try to avoid making up the difference.
- shortcake27 3y ago
  In the UK, where minimum wage is OK (not great, but OK), and we don’t have those garbage US shenanigans where tipped employees can get paid a pittance, many payment terminals add a 10% tip automatically (especially at bars). Many restaurants also add a 10% tip to the bill (For everyone, not just parties of > 6). I really wish it were outlawed. The price paid should be the price displayed, unless the circumstances are exceptional. You cannot display prices without VAT so how it is allowed to display prices without the forced tip? “It’s optional”. Sure, if you enjoy having your food spat in the next time you return.
  - qwytw 3y ago
    > those garbage US shenanigans where tipped employees can get paid a pittance Unless you're in California and some other states where there is "tipped" minimum wage and you get both a full wage and the tips. And even in other states I got the impression that most (or at least many) waiter and other tipped stuff prefer the current system to getting the minimum wage and barely any tips
    - warner25 3y ago
      Regarding the "tipped minimum" vs. full wage and tips, I've been wondering for a while how this works out in practice, and I've yet to find an answer. Like do waitresses in California, earning the full $15.50 minimum wage plus tips (and tipping is no less prevalent in California), really end up making 50%+ more money than waitresses in Massachusetts where employers can claim a $8.25 tip credit to cover more than half of the $15 tipped minimum?
      - brewdad 3y ago
        Yes they do. So long as their employer isn't doing something illegal.
    - shortcake27 3y ago
      I haven’t lived in the US so I can’t really comment on the situation there. But my point is, the US model is infecting other countries which already have minimum wages and don’t suffer from problem tips in the US solve (AKA, insanely low minimum wages in some states for tipped servers). Why should the minimum wage bartender at Brewdog get an automatic 10% tip when the minimum wage employee at Tesco doesn’t?
ezfe 3y ago
it can't be called a gratuity if it's mandatory
- zeristor 3y ago
  That would be gratuitous. A word that means, both free and unjustified.
newZWhoDis 3y ago
>I always tip my barista at least 20% I’m sorry but tipping 20% for coffee is nuts.
- 10u152 3y ago
  The weirdest part of this for me (not American) is that my local daily coffee shop throws in free items for me - sometimes comps the coffee or gives banana bread or something to reward a frequent customer. The idea that a frequent customer feels like they need to tip extra as the OP says blows my mind.
  - thephyber 3y ago
    Free comps are psychology (more likely classical conditioning). It is the same psychological quirk which makes gambling so appealing. When training dogs, treats work far better when you randomly “jackpot” the reward. The lizard brain is willing to grind out the low paying rewards longer in hopes of the next high paying reward.
    - 10u152 3y ago
      Sure, my point is it's the OPPOSITE of feeling like I should tip/tip extra as a regular as OP said. My overall costs are lower as a regular which makes sense.
    - geodel 3y ago
      Well yeah, but I think point being made here is it is shop that feels rewarding customer and not the customer that is socially forced to reward server at coffee shop counter every single time.
- jghn 3y ago
  As much as I like the advent of things like square and toast to provide convenient checkout, they've added a lot of tipping in places where it wasn't as common. There are all sorts of things I buy now where I get that little electronic checkout screen and options for 18/20/22/25% tipping. When before there *may* have been a tip jar. If that.
Teever 3y ago
I don't understand how this isn't considered fraud. A reasonable person would look at the price on a menu and conclude that this is the price that they will be paying. And no an asterisk and a tiny piece of writing somewhere does not make this not fraud.
_huayra_ 3y ago
Mandatory gratuity and the "operating cost" charges can be declined unless it is clearly listed and displayed before ordering (and even then it can arguably be declined). This is why you see "mandatory X% gratuity for Y reasons" on menus (e.g. for large groups). If you knew this terrible gratuity beforehand, then you're basically stuck (or can walk away before ordering). However, if they sprung this on you without clear notice, you don't have to pay it. This comes down to the same reason why when you click "buy" on some website, they can't say "oh look we added a secret X% f** you fee!". Similarly, this is the reason why when you negotiate a rate with a lawyer, accountant, gardener, or other professional, they can't add random fees that weren't discussed. My climbing gym has had big signs up and has sent myriad emails over the past few months leading up to a new credit card processing fee for this very reason. If you had great service, I would still recommend fighting this and then tipping the server directly with cash. These "mandatory tips" don't go to the server, but are usually pooled and mostly taken by management. If the restaurant is one of the few ones that is equitable between the staff members (e.g. if the tip gets automatically split between front and back of house), then that might be the one exception where paying a surprise mandatory fee would be okay.
- yieldcrv 3y ago
  default opt-out should be illegal
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - lacrimacida 3y ago
    Is it even possible to opt out? I had no idea I could. Good to know.
    - yieldcrv 3y ago
      from what I understand, and have done sometimes, is that you can opt out of “employee surcharges” “mandates” things that look like pandemic era excuses to charge more but not the auto-added tip? never challenged those I just dont leave an additional tip or revisit those venues as often
toomuchtodo 3y ago
Please file a complaint with the FTC. They need every data point possible. I’ll Venmo you for your time (a coffee ;) if needed (currently sitting in a bar on St Pete Beach). https://reportfraud.ftc.gov/ https://reportfraud.ftc.gov/
- grepfru_it 3y ago
  I shall be in St Pete in a few weeks. Let me know of the good daytime bars
  - toomuchtodo 3y ago
    Shadrack’s and The Wharf on St Pete Beach. Mastry’s in downtown St Pete. Enjoy!
kevin_thibedeau 3y ago
Businesses do this to hide the cost of inflation by presenting lower fees than they are willing to accept for their services.
- eweise 3y ago
  Are they? From what I've seen, prices has gone dramatically since inflation.

by xrd 3y ago

lsaferite 3y ago

Mandatory gratuity for a non-tipped employees should be 100% forbidden.

Analemma_ 3y ago
Who is a "tipped versus non-tipped employee"? I think for servers coming to your table it's actually spelled out in law, for everything else it's a social convention that businesses can try to shove in one direction.
- jfengel 3y ago
  It is a legal distinction. In most places there is a lower minimum wage for tipped employees. The law says what jobs qualify for the tipped minimum. (Legally, they have to make up the difference if you didn't make enough in tips. But most servers make more than that via tips, which is why they often fight efforts to eliminate tipping.)
  - bobthepanda 3y ago
    Also, wage theft is one of the most common things that happens to restaurant workers, because a lot of employers try to avoid making up the difference.
shortcake27 3y ago
In the UK, where minimum wage is OK (not great, but OK), and we don’t have those garbage US shenanigans where tipped employees can get paid a pittance, many payment terminals add a 10% tip automatically (especially at bars). Many restaurants also add a 10% tip to the bill (For everyone, not just parties of > 6). I really wish it were outlawed. The price paid should be the price displayed, unless the circumstances are exceptional. You cannot display prices without VAT so how it is allowed to display prices without the forced tip? “It’s optional”. Sure, if you enjoy having your food spat in the next time you return.
- qwytw 3y ago
  > those garbage US shenanigans where tipped employees can get paid a pittance Unless you're in California and some other states where there is "tipped" minimum wage and you get both a full wage and the tips. And even in other states I got the impression that most (or at least many) waiter and other tipped stuff prefer the current system to getting the minimum wage and barely any tips
  - warner25 3y ago
    Regarding the "tipped minimum" vs. full wage and tips, I've been wondering for a while how this works out in practice, and I've yet to find an answer. Like do waitresses in California, earning the full $15.50 minimum wage plus tips (and tipping is no less prevalent in California), really end up making 50%+ more money than waitresses in Massachusetts where employers can claim a $8.25 tip credit to cover more than half of the $15 tipped minimum?
    - brewdad 3y ago
      Yes they do. So long as their employer isn't doing something illegal.
  - shortcake27 3y ago
    I haven’t lived in the US so I can’t really comment on the situation there. But my point is, the US model is infecting other countries which already have minimum wages and don’t suffer from problem tips in the US solve (AKA, insanely low minimum wages in some states for tipped servers). Why should the minimum wage bartender at Brewdog get an automatic 10% tip when the minimum wage employee at Tesco doesn’t?

ezfe 3y ago

it can't be called a gratuity if it's mandatory

zeristor 3y ago
That would be gratuitous. A word that means, both free and unjustified.

newZWhoDis 3y ago

>I always tip my barista at least 20% I’m sorry but tipping 20% for coffee is nuts.

10u152 3y ago
The weirdest part of this for me (not American) is that my local daily coffee shop throws in free items for me - sometimes comps the coffee or gives banana bread or something to reward a frequent customer. The idea that a frequent customer feels like they need to tip extra as the OP says blows my mind.
- thephyber 3y ago
  Free comps are psychology (more likely classical conditioning). It is the same psychological quirk which makes gambling so appealing. When training dogs, treats work far better when you randomly “jackpot” the reward. The lizard brain is willing to grind out the low paying rewards longer in hopes of the next high paying reward.
  - 10u152 3y ago
    Sure, my point is it's the OPPOSITE of feeling like I should tip/tip extra as a regular as OP said. My overall costs are lower as a regular which makes sense.
  - geodel 3y ago
    Well yeah, but I think point being made here is it is shop that feels rewarding customer and not the customer that is socially forced to reward server at coffee shop counter every single time.
jghn 3y ago
As much as I like the advent of things like square and toast to provide convenient checkout, they've added a lot of tipping in places where it wasn't as common. There are all sorts of things I buy now where I get that little electronic checkout screen and options for 18/20/22/25% tipping. When before there *may* have been a tip jar. If that.

Teever 3y ago

I don't understand how this isn't considered fraud. A reasonable person would look at the price on a menu and conclude that this is the price that they will be paying. And no an asterisk and a tiny piece of writing somewhere does not make this not fraud.

_huayra_ 3y ago

Mandatory gratuity and the "operating cost" charges can be declined unless it is clearly listed and displayed before ordering (and even then it can arguably be declined). This is why you see "mandatory X% gratuity for Y reasons" on menus (e.g. for large groups). If you knew this terrible gratuity beforehand, then you're basically stuck (or can walk away before ordering). However, if they sprung this on you without clear notice, you don't have to pay it. This comes down to the same reason why when you click "buy" on some website, they can't say "oh look we added a secret X% f** you fee!". Similarly, this is the reason why when you negotiate a rate with a lawyer, accountant, gardener, or other professional, they can't add random fees that weren't discussed. My climbing gym has had big signs up and has sent myriad emails over the past few months leading up to a new credit card processing fee for this very reason. If you had great service, I would still recommend fighting this and then tipping the server directly with cash. These "mandatory tips" don't go to the server, but are usually pooled and mostly taken by management. If the restaurant is one of the few ones that is equitable between the staff members (e.g. if the tip gets automatically split between front and back of house), then that might be the one exception where paying a surprise mandatory fee would be okay.

yieldcrv 3y ago
default opt-out should be illegal
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- lacrimacida 3y ago
  Is it even possible to opt out? I had no idea I could. Good to know.
  - yieldcrv 3y ago
    from what I understand, and have done sometimes, is that you can opt out of “employee surcharges” “mandates” things that look like pandemic era excuses to charge more but not the auto-added tip? never challenged those I just dont leave an additional tip or revisit those venues as often

toomuchtodo 3y ago

Please file a complaint with the FTC. They need every data point possible. I’ll Venmo you for your time (a coffee ;) if needed (currently sitting in a bar on St Pete Beach). https://reportfraud.ftc.gov/ https://reportfraud.ftc.gov/

grepfru_it 3y ago
I shall be in St Pete in a few weeks. Let me know of the good daytime bars
- toomuchtodo 3y ago
  Shadrack’s and The Wharf on St Pete Beach. Mastry’s in downtown St Pete. Enjoy!

kevin_thibedeau 3y ago

Businesses do this to hide the cost of inflation by presenting lower fees than they are willing to accept for their services.

eweise 3y ago
Are they? From what I've seen, prices has gone dramatically since inflation.