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> The one or two of them I visited were unique in that the patrons were frisked for weapons on the way in! I wonder what changed in German society?
by FirmwareBurner 3y ago
> The one or two of them I visited were unique in that the patrons were frisked for weapons on the way in!
I wonder what changed in German society?
- cubefox 3y agoYou are not supposed to say what changed recently.
- the-dude 3y agoSince I am Dutch and thus locker, I can say it : influx of North African immigrants.
- nicbou 3y agoGermany has very few NA immigrants. People like those above are hinting at muslim immigrants and asylum seekers. When you blow a dog whistle hard enough, it reaches frequencies everyone can hear.
- the-dude 3y agoAre you saying I should have used the word asylum seeker instead of immigrant?
- nicbou 3y agoI was referring to the grandparent comment.
- the-dude 3y agoSo what is the actual substance of your reply to me then?
- FirmwareBurner 3y agoHe doesn't like people talking about certain immigrants.
- nicbou 3y agoI'd actually be fine with it if you actually talked about whichever immigrants you have in mind instead of "certain immigrants".
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago>I'd actually be fine Your reactions to previous comments speak otherwise.
- cubefox 3y ago[flagged]
- nicbou 3y agoThere is no argument about the situation itself. I'm pointing out that this reference is so obvious that the author might as well own their xenophobia. It's cowardly. It rubs me the wrong way because if they said "middle eastern immigrants" the comments would likely get flagged and deleted (here and elsewhere), but they can pick a very obvious reference and then everyone can hop onto the xenophobia bandwagon with impunity. My annoyance comes from the last few weeks of this, sponsored by the Israel-Palestine conflict and the waves it makes in German society. Everyone is brave enough to call for drastic measures against Muslim immigrants, but too cowardly actually name the group they refer to.
- the-dude 3y agoHow are you so sure it is phobia? From my impression in NL, it is groups of immigrants who create a (violent) atmosphere in public pools. Up to the point some swimming pools don't know what to do anymore.
- cubefox 3y agoIt's not xenophobia (or racism etc) when the issues are very real. > It rubs me the wrong way because if they said "middle eastern immigrants" the comments would likely get flagged and deleted I don't get what you mean here. An accurate comment getting flagged and deleted is in fact a significant problem.
- OfSanguineFire 3y agoThis comment is badly informed. Germany's big wave of controversial Muslim immigrants came from Syria and other points east, not North Africa. I understand that as a Dutch person your own country's experience is with e.g. Moroccans, but you shouldn't assume the same for your neighboring country.
- cubefox 3y agoBy the way, Moroccans are Muslim as well: > More than 99 percent of the population is Sunni Muslim, and less than 0.1 percent of the population is Shia Muslim. Groups together constituting less than 1 percent of the population include Christians, Jews, and Baha'is. https://www.state.gov/reports/2022-report-on-international-religious-freedom/morocco/ https://www.state.gov/reports/2022-report-on-international-r... Yet when I point out that these people have this in common, people say it's bigoted.
- OfSanguineFire 3y agoI was just pointing out a factual error in the GP’s post. Please don’t draw my comment into your political battle.
- the-dude 3y agoThanks for correction, you are probably right.
- nicbou 3y agoHowever you will find this exact dog whistle in every thread about German social issues without fail, and it rarely gets downvoted. Stop pretending that you can say it. You say it every damn time.
- cubefox 3y agoIt appears the term "dog whistle" is used to shame people who try to point out things that are considered taboo.
- nicbou 3y agoIt's used to shame people who say things while hiding behind plausible deniability. You want to complain about a group of immigrants? Go ahead, but own it. Stop saying you-know-who and have the courage to back your own thoughts. Then we can talk about it like adults.
- cubefox 3y agoThat's not so easy. You can't just break straight through the Overton window. That could easily get you socially punished, e.g. here by downvoting and flagging. Some sensitivity is required.
- nicbou 3y agoI'd say that you already leave the Overton window but merely pretend that you don't. It just makes it harder to have a frank discussion because you leave it to the other side to name the group for you. If you argue in bad faith you can even pretend that they brought it up, not you. I find it disingenuous all around. Like I said, it became ubiquitous in the local debate since the Hamas attacks.
- cubefox 3y agoIf comments get removed altogether because of lack of sensitivity, there is no discussion at all, frank or not. So there isn't much an alternative. A parent comment of this thread was already flagged regardless. You seem to underestimate how severe the problem is. You very much can't talk straight like with any topic inside the Overton window. I don't like the accusation of of "bad faith". I don't even know what it is supposed to mean concretely. What defines "the group" exactly, is part of the question. I said more in neighboring threads.
- Solvency 3y agoYou're weirdly all over this topic with your racist views. We get it. You don't like Muslims.
- cubefox 3y agoAd hominem. Have you any arguments on the object level?
- niemandhier 3y agoWhat changed in German society is that police and especially prosecution have been underfunded for years. For a law to be effective it is important that a transgression is addressed with high probability and low delay ( c.f. To Command and Persuade ). Two decades of Underfunding and therefore understaffing prosecution and courts means that is not the case anymore. The influx of immigrants is to a degree responsible for this, since it redirected large amounts of money. Interestingly, the severity of the punishment does not matter as much as it’s certainty. Increasing the punishment associated with a transgression is usually a consequence of the states inability to effectively enforce the existing laws. Ever increasing penalties e.g. for forms of sexual harassment can therefore be seen as an indicator of a gradual weakening of the executive and judicial branches.