5 ms·

Minimum is just that, minimum. Have you ever seen a broken standard USB port or connector? Me not once in my entire life, unlike micro-USB or USB-C.

arcticbull 3y ago
I surely have. Any even semi-public USB power socket is hanging on by a thread, some of them have the inside paddles snapped off entirely. I haven't seen a Type C one in such a state yet, but I eagerly await it.
- holoduke 3y ago
  The problem with usb c (but also mini and micro) is the weak connector on the device itself. The way its connected to the board is way weaker than a large usb a connector on a motherboard. Accidentally pullen a keyboard while attached will for sure destroy a usb c port. A usb a most likely survive.
  - yencabulator 3y ago
    Simply put your money where your mouth is. Framework laptops come with expansion cards that are on sturdy rails and serve as the world-facing USB-C/A/HDMI/SD card/whatever connection. The inner connector on the mainboard is well protected. https://frame.work/assets/pdp/expansion-card-9240577483dc9e23bf019770192c518e34bc20c9daff3c37246c713f580adafa.webp https://frame.work/assets/pdp/expansion-card-9240577483dc9e2...
  - arcticbull 3y ago
    That's going to depend on the connector. Plenty have through-hole mounts. You can also get surface-mount type A connectors.
    - janoc 3y ago
      They all do. Yet it still doesn't help. Those 4 little retaining lugs are fixed into the board only by solder, which is fragile and will crack after a while, esp. when the connector is mated/demated constantly and forces are applied to it. USB A has those lugs much larger and usually also bent under the board or twisted, so the connector isn't fixed into the PCB only by solder. USB C and micro USB are mostly designed for clamshell enclosures such as a typical phone - in that case the connector shell is supported by the enclosure itself (ideally through some flexible padding) and not only by the flimsy contacts/solder lugs. However, there are plenty of devices on the market where these connectors are not supported like that because the designer has been an idiot - and guess which devices end up in the landfill with broken off connectors the most. Breaking the old school USB A, square USB B or mini USB is almost impossible like this unless one applies really unreasonable amount of force. I have only ever managed to accidentally destroy a USB A port once like that by accidentally hitting a USB stick hanging out of it - but the board and the adjacent ports were fine, only the port shell and contacts were destroyed.
      - sokoloff 3y ago
        Mini USB-B is still not very robust in terms of connection the board. I’ve got a couple devices here where the port is ripped off the PCB. (I voluntarily [attempt to] repair devices for friends, so I see more than a typical rate of failed parts.) By some definition, that’s evidence of unreasonable force, but it definitely happens and should be anticipated when you put the device in the hands of lots of gorillas.
      - duskwuff 3y ago
        > Those 4 little retaining lugs are fixed into the board only by solder, You're saying this as though there's a single design of USB-C cable to board connector. There are, in fact, many different designs, including many with "lugs" which go through the board, as well as mid-mount connectors which use the material of the PCB as structural support.
  - mnsc 3y ago
    Yup, bricked a old gopro with a mini connector by tearing it off the circuitboard. Didn't think that could happen so I wasn't particularly careful but it's physics, small things break easier.
- Sakos 3y ago
  I know the repair place I worked at sees a lot of broken USB-C ports. Way more than they ever had A. They hate the new, smaller ports because they're usually built very flimsily unless it's Apple.
- rezonant 3y ago
  To be fair, I haven't seen a USB C power port available in public once so far myself, and while it would be nifty for them to become the norm over USB-A, I really think it's a bad idea to subject users to unknown USB charging ports in public. A wall outlet can't pretend to be a keyboard, for instance.
- herbst 3y ago
  My laptop has a opinion which side is up on usb c and doesn't connect the other way around (the way docking stations use) I basically have to replace my laptop to use my docking station just because usb c isn't sturdy enough :/
  - reportingsjr 3y ago
    Did the USB C port ever work that way? Extra electronics are needed to support being able to flip the high speed connects like that. Maybe the laptop never had that?
    - herbst 3y ago
      I bought it used and only realized it later, but yes it's supposed to work on both sides.
- iforgotpassword 3y ago
  Never seen a broken public A port, but maybe it was because the A port was already there for a decade and got good wear while public C ones are relatively new? And I think many people still use A to C cables on the go because those ports are way more common, so they just get a lot more wear.
  - yencabulator 3y ago
    The terminal seating at LAX has both 110 VAC plugs and USB-A plugs where the cable falls out as soon as you let go of it.
atoav 3y ago
As the goto electronics guy I have swen broken USB A but not broken USB-C (yet). USB-C is sturdy, the weakness is either going to be the cable or the bonding of the copper with the PCB. Both is basically a matter of go much money the manufacturers are willing to spend.
- mavamaarten 3y ago
  My experiences differ. I've had plenty of USB-C devices of which the port becomes very loose after a while of normal use. I'm glad my current phone has wireless charging, not because of its convenience but because that way I don't wear out the USB-C port. USB-A is so simple, two holes and some leaf springs make for a satisfying clunk that doesn't wear out so quickly.
  - atoav 3y ago
    My experience was that most of the time it was the cable, followed by dirt in the port. Now PCB quality can also wildly differ and the bonding between substrate and pads can be a weak point if the manufacturer of the device went for the cheapest possible PCB. But for that you have through-hole USB-C connectors and cables that should break before the connector. So if your USB-C connector breaks off the PCB that is on the manufacturer of the device.
  - ericpauley 3y ago
    Are you sure there isn’t just dirt in the port? Or a bad cable? I’ve consistently had luck cleaning gunk out of USB C ports and having them work like new.
  - lxgr 3y ago
    > I've had plenty of USB-C devices of which the port becomes very loose after a while of normal use. I used to think the same thing, until I looked into how the USB-C plug actually operates: The movable spring parts are all in the cable, so if there's anything wearing out, it's usually that. Clean the plug/port (lint collecting in the back of the port prevents a proper connection and makes the haptic feedback feel off), possibly swap out the cable if the springs in it are really worn out, and things are as good as new. > some leaf springs make for a satisfying clunk that doesn't wear out so quickly. But once they do, you have a broken USB port.
thegeekpirate 3y ago
Absolutely, the two on the front of my HAF 932 were the first things to break, in fact. Funny enough, I've never seen a micro or C break :D
- aborsy 3y ago
  My USB C’s sometimes fail. The slot is not firm, and is loosened over time.
winrid 3y ago
yeah, I had to replace the front ports on my current PC case because the center part of the plugs came out...
- eastbound 3y ago
  Is the solution to have easily-replaceable USB sockets?
  - almostnormal 3y ago
    Or standardizing USB-XLR. People would complain about the price of the cables, the size of the cables, and the size of the devices. Small is fragile, and fragile should be replaceable.
    - hurryer 3y ago
      With an XLR connector if you pull you will rip the motherboard apart.
ikari_pl 3y ago
never had a broken USB-A, but definitely owned one and seen another USB C in which the tiny board in the middle of the socket broke off
Gareth321 3y ago
Yeah but 10,000 connections is WAY past any reasonable motherboard lifespan. Meaning the minimum for USB-C is ridiculously over-engineered for any motherboard.
- JohnFen 3y ago
  > Yeah but 10,000 connections is WAY past any reasonable motherboard lifespan. I just don't believe that those connectors last that long in the real world. My personal experience and observations indicate that they don't. Or, at least, they're much less robust than earlier USB connector designs.
- cbzbc 3y ago
  As the user above points out, this is ideal insertions, and not necessarily representative of the kinds of situations it is likely to encounter.
nathias 3y ago
you're lucky usb-c ports are failing constantly
RCitronsBroker 3y ago
i most definitely have seen more broken A ports in my life than I’ve seen broken C ports. I still remember being mystified by my elementary school janitor bending one back into shape(-ish) back when i was 6 or something lol
naasking 3y ago
> Have you ever seen a broken standard USB port or connector? Me not once in my entire life, unlike micro-USB or USB-C. USB-A has failed just as often as Micro-USB in my experience. The only connector I haven't seen break is USB-B, but that could be due to fewer samples, since only printers seem to use that connector, and how often do you unplug/plug a printer?
lxgr 3y ago
I've seen many. In more rental cars than not, the USB-A port is somewhat worn out, which is really annoying as it can make CarPlay connections quite fragile. I've also seen many USB-A ports in airplanes not being able to hold the cable anymore due to the spring contacts being worn out or having been bent out of shape.

arcticbull 3y ago

I surely have. Any even semi-public USB power socket is hanging on by a thread, some of them have the inside paddles snapped off entirely. I haven't seen a Type C one in such a state yet, but I eagerly await it.

holoduke 3y ago
The problem with usb c (but also mini and micro) is the weak connector on the device itself. The way its connected to the board is way weaker than a large usb a connector on a motherboard. Accidentally pullen a keyboard while attached will for sure destroy a usb c port. A usb a most likely survive.
- yencabulator 3y ago
  Simply put your money where your mouth is. Framework laptops come with expansion cards that are on sturdy rails and serve as the world-facing USB-C/A/HDMI/SD card/whatever connection. The inner connector on the mainboard is well protected. https://frame.work/assets/pdp/expansion-card-9240577483dc9e23bf019770192c518e34bc20c9daff3c37246c713f580adafa.webp https://frame.work/assets/pdp/expansion-card-9240577483dc9e2...
- arcticbull 3y ago
  That's going to depend on the connector. Plenty have through-hole mounts. You can also get surface-mount type A connectors.
  - janoc 3y ago
    They all do. Yet it still doesn't help. Those 4 little retaining lugs are fixed into the board only by solder, which is fragile and will crack after a while, esp. when the connector is mated/demated constantly and forces are applied to it. USB A has those lugs much larger and usually also bent under the board or twisted, so the connector isn't fixed into the PCB only by solder. USB C and micro USB are mostly designed for clamshell enclosures such as a typical phone - in that case the connector shell is supported by the enclosure itself (ideally through some flexible padding) and not only by the flimsy contacts/solder lugs. However, there are plenty of devices on the market where these connectors are not supported like that because the designer has been an idiot - and guess which devices end up in the landfill with broken off connectors the most. Breaking the old school USB A, square USB B or mini USB is almost impossible like this unless one applies really unreasonable amount of force. I have only ever managed to accidentally destroy a USB A port once like that by accidentally hitting a USB stick hanging out of it - but the board and the adjacent ports were fine, only the port shell and contacts were destroyed.
    - sokoloff 3y ago
      Mini USB-B is still not very robust in terms of connection the board. I’ve got a couple devices here where the port is ripped off the PCB. (I voluntarily [attempt to] repair devices for friends, so I see more than a typical rate of failed parts.) By some definition, that’s evidence of unreasonable force, but it definitely happens and should be anticipated when you put the device in the hands of lots of gorillas.
    - duskwuff 3y ago
      > Those 4 little retaining lugs are fixed into the board only by solder, You're saying this as though there's a single design of USB-C cable to board connector. There are, in fact, many different designs, including many with "lugs" which go through the board, as well as mid-mount connectors which use the material of the PCB as structural support.
- mnsc 3y ago
  Yup, bricked a old gopro with a mini connector by tearing it off the circuitboard. Didn't think that could happen so I wasn't particularly careful but it's physics, small things break easier.
Sakos 3y ago
I know the repair place I worked at sees a lot of broken USB-C ports. Way more than they ever had A. They hate the new, smaller ports because they're usually built very flimsily unless it's Apple.
rezonant 3y ago
To be fair, I haven't seen a USB C power port available in public once so far myself, and while it would be nifty for them to become the norm over USB-A, I really think it's a bad idea to subject users to unknown USB charging ports in public. A wall outlet can't pretend to be a keyboard, for instance.
herbst 3y ago
My laptop has a opinion which side is up on usb c and doesn't connect the other way around (the way docking stations use) I basically have to replace my laptop to use my docking station just because usb c isn't sturdy enough :/
- reportingsjr 3y ago
  Did the USB C port ever work that way? Extra electronics are needed to support being able to flip the high speed connects like that. Maybe the laptop never had that?
  - herbst 3y ago
    I bought it used and only realized it later, but yes it's supposed to work on both sides.
iforgotpassword 3y ago
Never seen a broken public A port, but maybe it was because the A port was already there for a decade and got good wear while public C ones are relatively new? And I think many people still use A to C cables on the go because those ports are way more common, so they just get a lot more wear.
- yencabulator 3y ago
  The terminal seating at LAX has both 110 VAC plugs and USB-A plugs where the cable falls out as soon as you let go of it.

atoav 3y ago

As the goto electronics guy I have swen broken USB A but not broken USB-C (yet). USB-C is sturdy, the weakness is either going to be the cable or the bonding of the copper with the PCB. Both is basically a matter of go much money the manufacturers are willing to spend.

mavamaarten 3y ago
My experiences differ. I've had plenty of USB-C devices of which the port becomes very loose after a while of normal use. I'm glad my current phone has wireless charging, not because of its convenience but because that way I don't wear out the USB-C port. USB-A is so simple, two holes and some leaf springs make for a satisfying clunk that doesn't wear out so quickly.
- atoav 3y ago
  My experience was that most of the time it was the cable, followed by dirt in the port. Now PCB quality can also wildly differ and the bonding between substrate and pads can be a weak point if the manufacturer of the device went for the cheapest possible PCB. But for that you have through-hole USB-C connectors and cables that should break before the connector. So if your USB-C connector breaks off the PCB that is on the manufacturer of the device.
- ericpauley 3y ago
  Are you sure there isn’t just dirt in the port? Or a bad cable? I’ve consistently had luck cleaning gunk out of USB C ports and having them work like new.
- lxgr 3y ago
  > I've had plenty of USB-C devices of which the port becomes very loose after a while of normal use. I used to think the same thing, until I looked into how the USB-C plug actually operates: The movable spring parts are all in the cable, so if there's anything wearing out, it's usually that. Clean the plug/port (lint collecting in the back of the port prevents a proper connection and makes the haptic feedback feel off), possibly swap out the cable if the springs in it are really worn out, and things are as good as new. > some leaf springs make for a satisfying clunk that doesn't wear out so quickly. But once they do, you have a broken USB port.

thegeekpirate 3y ago

Absolutely, the two on the front of my HAF 932 were the first things to break, in fact. Funny enough, I've never seen a micro or C break :D

aborsy 3y ago
My USB C’s sometimes fail. The slot is not firm, and is loosened over time.

winrid 3y ago

yeah, I had to replace the front ports on my current PC case because the center part of the plugs came out...

eastbound 3y ago
Is the solution to have easily-replaceable USB sockets?
- almostnormal 3y ago
  Or standardizing USB-XLR. People would complain about the price of the cables, the size of the cables, and the size of the devices. Small is fragile, and fragile should be replaceable.
  - hurryer 3y ago
    With an XLR connector if you pull you will rip the motherboard apart.

ikari_pl 3y ago

never had a broken USB-A, but definitely owned one and seen another USB C in which the tiny board in the middle of the socket broke off

Gareth321 3y ago

Yeah but 10,000 connections is WAY past any reasonable motherboard lifespan. Meaning the minimum for USB-C is ridiculously over-engineered for any motherboard.

JohnFen 3y ago
> Yeah but 10,000 connections is WAY past any reasonable motherboard lifespan. I just don't believe that those connectors last that long in the real world. My personal experience and observations indicate that they don't. Or, at least, they're much less robust than earlier USB connector designs.
cbzbc 3y ago
As the user above points out, this is ideal insertions, and not necessarily representative of the kinds of situations it is likely to encounter.

nathias 3y ago

you're lucky usb-c ports are failing constantly

RCitronsBroker 3y ago

i most definitely have seen more broken A ports in my life than I’ve seen broken C ports. I still remember being mystified by my elementary school janitor bending one back into shape(-ish) back when i was 6 or something lol

naasking 3y ago

> Have you ever seen a broken standard USB port or connector? Me not once in my entire life, unlike micro-USB or USB-C. USB-A has failed just as often as Micro-USB in my experience. The only connector I haven't seen break is USB-B, but that could be due to fewer samples, since only printers seem to use that connector, and how often do you unplug/plug a printer?

lxgr 3y ago

I've seen many. In more rental cars than not, the USB-A port is somewhat worn out, which is really annoying as it can make CarPlay connections quite fragile. I've also seen many USB-A ports in airplanes not being able to hold the cable anymore due to the spring contacts being worn out or having been bent out of shape.