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Dude, everyone already thinks the board did a crazy ill-advised thing. They're about to be the board of like a 5 person or so company if they double down and co

Dude, everyone already thinks the board did a crazy ill-advised thing. They're about to be the board of like a 5 person or so company if they double down and commit. To be honest I hate takes like yours, where people think that acknowledging a mistake (even a giant mistake) is a sign of weakness. A bigger sign of weakness in my opinion is people who commit to a shitty idea just because they said it first, despite all evidence to the contrary.

johnfn 3y ago
> To be honest I hate takes like yours, where people think that acknowledging a mistake (even a giant mistake) is a sign of weakness. The weakness was the first decision; it’s already past the point of deciding if the board is a good steward of OpenAI or not. Sometimes backtracking can be a point of strength, yes, but in this case waffling just makes them look even dumber.
skygazer 3y ago
I’m not advocating people double down on stupid, or that correcting your mistakes is bad optics. I’m simply saying they’re “increasingly revealing” pre-existing unfitness at each ham-fisted step. I think our increase in knowledge of their foolishness is a good thing. And often correcting a situation isn’t the same as undoing it, because undoing is often not possible or has its own consequences. I do appreciate your willingness to let them grow into their responsibilities despite it all — that’s a rare charity extended to an incompetent board.
- hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
  Yeah, I agree with that. I think the board has to have been genuinely surprised by the sheer blowback they're getting, i.e. not just Brockman quitting but lots of their other top engineering leaders. Regarding your last sentence, it's pretty obvious that if Altman comes back, the current board will effectively be neutered (it says as much in the article). So my guess is that they're more in "what do we do to save OpenAI as an organization" than saving their own roles.
Aeolun 3y ago
Depends entirely on how you do it. You can do something and backtrack in a shitty way too. If they wanted to show they’re committed to backtracking they could resign themselves. Now it sounds more like they want to have their cake and eat it.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
LewisVerstappen 3y ago
> To be honest I hate takes like yours, where people think that acknowledging a mistake (even a giant mistake) is a sign of weakness. A bigger sign of weakness in my opinion is people who commit to a shitty idea just because they said it first, despite all evidence to the contrary. Lmfao you're joking if you think they "realized their mistake" and are now atoning. This is 99% from Microsoft & OpenAI's other investors.
- jacquesm 3y ago
  > This is 99% from Microsoft & OpenAI's other investors. Exactly. You can bet there have been some very pointed exchanges about this.
  - merpnderp 3y ago
    Yeah, Satya likely just hired a thousand new lawyers just to sue OpenAI for being idiots.
    - jacquesm 3y ago
      I so wish I could be a fly on the wall in all this. There's got to be some very interesting moves and countermoves. This isn't over yet.
015a 3y ago
Bad take. Not "everyone" feels that what they did was wrong. We don't have insight into what's going on internally. Optics matter; the division over their decision means that its definitionally non-obvious what the correct path forward is; or, that there isn't one correct path, but multiple reasonable paths. To admit a mistake of this magnitude is to admit that you're either so unprincipled that your mind can be changed at a whim; or that you didn't think through the decision enough preemptively. These are absolutely signs of weakness in leadership.
- junofan 3y ago
  Satya is “furious.” What’s reasonable about pissing off a guy who can pull the plug? I don’t think it’s definitionally non-obvious whether to take that risk.
  - option 3y ago
    Yeah, he can be furious all he wants but he is not getting the OpenAI he used to have back. It’s either Sam + Greg now or Ilya. All 3 are irreplaceable.
  - no_wizard 3y ago
    Last I checked he only had 49% of the company. I also feel, that they can patch relationships, Satya may be upset now but will he continue to be upset on Monday? It needs to play out more before we know, I think. They need to pitch their plan to outside stakeholders now
    - discordance 3y ago
      Which other company will give them the infra/compute they need when 49% of the profitable part has been eaten up?
      - threeseed 3y ago
        And how will they survive if Microsoft/SamAi ends up building a competitor ? Microsoft could run the entire business as a loss just to attract developers to Azure.
balls187 3y ago
This isn’t a shitty idea. The board fired it’s CEO and the next day is apparently asking him to come back. At this point, I don’t care how it resolves—the people who made that decision should be removed for sheer incompetence.
rfrey 3y ago
You're not wrong, but in this case not enough time has emerged for the situation to change or for new facts to emerge. It's been a bit over a day. All that a flip-flop in that short timeframe does is indicate that the board did not fully think through their actions. And taking a step like this without careful consideration is a sign of incompetence.
PheonixPharts 3y ago
> Dude, everyone already thinks the board did a crazy ill-advised thing. I've honestly never had more hope for this industry than when it was apparent that Altman was pushed out by engineering for forgoing the mission to create world changing products in favor of the usual mindless cash grab. The idea that people with a passion for technical excellence and true innovation might be able to steer OpenAI to do something amazing was almost unbelievable. That's why I'm not too surprised to see that it probably won't really play out, and likely will end up in OpenAI turning even faster into yet another tech company worried exclusively with next quarters revenue.
moogly 3y ago
"When faced with multiple options, the most important thing is to just pick one and stick with it." "Disagree and commit." - says every CEO these days
wwtrv 3y ago
> is a sign of weakness It's often a sign of incompetence though. Or rather a confirmation of it.
MrMan 3y ago
[dead]
roguas 3y ago
Acknowledging a mistake so early seems like a sign of weakness to me. Hold the hot rod for at least a minute, see if the initial pain goes away. After that acknowledgement may begin to look like part of learning and get more acceptance, rather than: oopsie doodl, revert now!!!

johnfn 3y ago

> To be honest I hate takes like yours, where people think that acknowledging a mistake (even a giant mistake) is a sign of weakness. The weakness was the first decision; it’s already past the point of deciding if the board is a good steward of OpenAI or not. Sometimes backtracking can be a point of strength, yes, but in this case waffling just makes them look even dumber.

skygazer 3y ago

I’m not advocating people double down on stupid, or that correcting your mistakes is bad optics. I’m simply saying they’re “increasingly revealing” pre-existing unfitness at each ham-fisted step. I think our increase in knowledge of their foolishness is a good thing. And often correcting a situation isn’t the same as undoing it, because undoing is often not possible or has its own consequences. I do appreciate your willingness to let them grow into their responsibilities despite it all — that’s a rare charity extended to an incompetent board.

hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
Yeah, I agree with that. I think the board has to have been genuinely surprised by the sheer blowback they're getting, i.e. not just Brockman quitting but lots of their other top engineering leaders. Regarding your last sentence, it's pretty obvious that if Altman comes back, the current board will effectively be neutered (it says as much in the article). So my guess is that they're more in "what do we do to save OpenAI as an organization" than saving their own roles.

Aeolun 3y ago

Depends entirely on how you do it. You can do something and backtrack in a shitty way too. If they wanted to show they’re committed to backtracking they could resign themselves. Now it sounds more like they want to have their cake and eat it.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

LewisVerstappen 3y ago

> To be honest I hate takes like yours, where people think that acknowledging a mistake (even a giant mistake) is a sign of weakness. A bigger sign of weakness in my opinion is people who commit to a shitty idea just because they said it first, despite all evidence to the contrary. Lmfao you're joking if you think they "realized their mistake" and are now atoning. This is 99% from Microsoft & OpenAI's other investors.

jacquesm 3y ago
> This is 99% from Microsoft & OpenAI's other investors. Exactly. You can bet there have been some very pointed exchanges about this.
- merpnderp 3y ago
  Yeah, Satya likely just hired a thousand new lawyers just to sue OpenAI for being idiots.
  - jacquesm 3y ago
    I so wish I could be a fly on the wall in all this. There's got to be some very interesting moves and countermoves. This isn't over yet.

015a 3y ago

Bad take. Not "everyone" feels that what they did was wrong. We don't have insight into what's going on internally. Optics matter; the division over their decision means that its definitionally non-obvious what the correct path forward is; or, that there isn't one correct path, but multiple reasonable paths. To admit a mistake of this magnitude is to admit that you're either so unprincipled that your mind can be changed at a whim; or that you didn't think through the decision enough preemptively. These are absolutely signs of weakness in leadership.

junofan 3y ago
Satya is “furious.” What’s reasonable about pissing off a guy who can pull the plug? I don’t think it’s definitionally non-obvious whether to take that risk.
- option 3y ago
  Yeah, he can be furious all he wants but he is not getting the OpenAI he used to have back. It’s either Sam + Greg now or Ilya. All 3 are irreplaceable.
- no_wizard 3y ago
  Last I checked he only had 49% of the company. I also feel, that they can patch relationships, Satya may be upset now but will he continue to be upset on Monday? It needs to play out more before we know, I think. They need to pitch their plan to outside stakeholders now
  - discordance 3y ago
    Which other company will give them the infra/compute they need when 49% of the profitable part has been eaten up?
    - threeseed 3y ago
      And how will they survive if Microsoft/SamAi ends up building a competitor ? Microsoft could run the entire business as a loss just to attract developers to Azure.

balls187 3y ago

This isn’t a shitty idea. The board fired it’s CEO and the next day is apparently asking him to come back. At this point, I don’t care how it resolves—the people who made that decision should be removed for sheer incompetence.

rfrey 3y ago

You're not wrong, but in this case not enough time has emerged for the situation to change or for new facts to emerge. It's been a bit over a day. All that a flip-flop in that short timeframe does is indicate that the board did not fully think through their actions. And taking a step like this without careful consideration is a sign of incompetence.

PheonixPharts 3y ago

> Dude, everyone already thinks the board did a crazy ill-advised thing. I've honestly never had more hope for this industry than when it was apparent that Altman was pushed out by engineering for forgoing the mission to create world changing products in favor of the usual mindless cash grab. The idea that people with a passion for technical excellence and true innovation might be able to steer OpenAI to do something amazing was almost unbelievable. That's why I'm not too surprised to see that it probably won't really play out, and likely will end up in OpenAI turning even faster into yet another tech company worried exclusively with next quarters revenue.

moogly 3y ago

"When faced with multiple options, the most important thing is to just pick one and stick with it." "Disagree and commit." - says every CEO these days

wwtrv 3y ago

> is a sign of weakness It's often a sign of incompetence though. Or rather a confirmation of it.

MrMan 3y ago

[dead]

roguas 3y ago

Acknowledging a mistake so early seems like a sign of weakness to me. Hold the hot rod for at least a minute, see if the initial pain goes away. After that acknowledgement may begin to look like part of learning and get more acceptance, rather than: oopsie doodl, revert now!!!