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This is Olek Madry and Jakub Pachocki we are talking about. Check out their respective dblps if you don't get it. It's a kind of loss that will be hard to recov

This is Olek Madry and Jakub Pachocki we are talking about. Check out their respective dblps if you don't get it. It's a kind of loss that will be hard to recover from. In relation to other comments here. There is "coding" and there is "God's spark genius of algorithms" kind of work. This is what made the magic of OpenAI. Believe me, those guys were not "just coding". My bet is that it could be all about some research directions that were "shielded" by Sam.

belter 3y ago
If all of that would be enough, there would be a ChatGPT from Google, a long time ago...
- fsloth 3y ago
  In general Google sucks in creating new consumer offerings. So it's not about resources for sure. I guess it's about synergy, culture, taste and talent.
- jjtheblunt 3y ago
  Wasn’t OpenAI populated in part by Google Brain people who left Google’s bs bureaucracy and internal politics?
  - suziemanul 3y ago
    Totally, most of the Transformers folks ;-)
- sbrother 3y ago
  Google invented the core technology, and they had an internal version long before ChatGPT was released. I joined when it was already at the "accessible to all employees" stage and it absolutely blew my mind. They just hadn't -- and still haven't -- figured out how to commercialize it yet. I don't think they'll be the ones to crack that nut either. IMO they are too obsessed with "safety" to release something useful, and also can't reasonably deploy a service like ChatGPT at their scale because the costs are too high. With OpenAI imploding this whole race just got a lot more interesting though...
  - Jensson 3y ago
    Yeah, the legal and financials parts of ChatGPT are very questionable. I don't think Google would launch a service that would open them up to so many lawsuits unless it was very profitable, and I doubt ChatGPT is very profitable currently. Bard was likely not trained on copyrightable data, that makes it safe from lawsuits but also removes most of the usecases people want ChatGPT for. And it isn't just about lawsuits, since Google need to keep advertisers happy or they would leave like they leave Elon Musk they can't afford to jeapordise that with questionable launches.
    - i8comments 3y ago
      Why is it legally questionable?
      - Jensson 3y ago
        If it wasn't there wouldn't be lots of lawsuits being filed about it. https://innovationorigins.com/en/openai-and-googles-bard-accused-of-copyright-breaches/ https://innovationorigins.com/en/openai-and-googles-bard-acc...
    - boh 3y ago
      It was 100% trained on copyrightable data. You can tell by using it and Google has a history of "ask for forgiveness not permission" when it comes to data mining.
      - Jensson 3y ago
        > Google has a history of "ask for forgiveness not permission" when it comes to data mining. For very profitable things. This isn't very profitable, which is why I added that part to my comment. Google has a very good understanding what they get sued for and how much those lawsuits costs, if it is profitable anyway they go ahead.
        boh 3y ago
RockCoach 3y ago
>My bet is that it could be all about some research directions that were "shielded" by Sam. As far as I can tell, all three of them are of Polish descent. For all we know they might have decided to resign together even if only one of them had a personal issue with OpenAI's vision. We will find out soon enough whether they will just found their own competing startup, based on OpenAI's "secret sauce" or not.
- slekker 3y ago
  What does being Polish have to do with it?
  - RockCoach 3y ago
    You've been focussing on the most irrelevant part of my comment. Nothing to do with being Polish in particular. Only that there is a connecting element that might help explain why these 3 decided to resign together on the same day.
    - lttlrck 3y ago
      It's the first sentence which does make it seem important from your perspective, far from irrelevant.
      - Jensson 3y ago
        All of them being from the same area is relevant. Them being polish is not relevant except to show that they were from the same area.
- m_ke 3y ago
  I wonder if Wojciech Zaremba will leave as well
  - suziemanul 3y ago
    Yeah... Curious to see how this will unfold.
throwawaaarrgh 3y ago
> There is "coding" and there is "God's spark genius of algorithms" kind of work. I really don't buy that for a second. Most of OpenAI's value compared to any competitor comes from the money they spent hiring humans to trawl through training data.
- elzbardico 3y ago
  Not to forget the mind-boggling amount of computing power and the megabucks spent on power bills. If anything, smaller groups and open source seem to get very good results with far less money.
- motoboi 3y ago
  And their competition didn’t had the same resources?
  - suziemanul 3y ago
    This is a handful of people we are talking about. The top algorithimic world is incredibly small. In short, either they didn't or where unable to create a favorable enough environment for this to flourish.
- amelius 3y ago
  The God's spark of genius are the transformers which came from Google and are now in the open.
  - suziemanul 3y ago
    Look where for example Lukasz Kaiser is now [OpenAI]. Google had a culture issue when it came to "delivering brilliance". It was a bit "you do it as a singleton contributor" or you don't. OpenAI put a number of such brilliant people working together on one goal, silently, for quite some time, and we all see the results.

belter 3y ago

If all of that would be enough, there would be a ChatGPT from Google, a long time ago...

fsloth 3y ago
In general Google sucks in creating new consumer offerings. So it's not about resources for sure. I guess it's about synergy, culture, taste and talent.
jjtheblunt 3y ago
Wasn’t OpenAI populated in part by Google Brain people who left Google’s bs bureaucracy and internal politics?
- suziemanul 3y ago
  Totally, most of the Transformers folks ;-)
sbrother 3y ago
Google invented the core technology, and they had an internal version long before ChatGPT was released. I joined when it was already at the "accessible to all employees" stage and it absolutely blew my mind. They just hadn't -- and still haven't -- figured out how to commercialize it yet. I don't think they'll be the ones to crack that nut either. IMO they are too obsessed with "safety" to release something useful, and also can't reasonably deploy a service like ChatGPT at their scale because the costs are too high. With OpenAI imploding this whole race just got a lot more interesting though...
- Jensson 3y ago
  Yeah, the legal and financials parts of ChatGPT are very questionable. I don't think Google would launch a service that would open them up to so many lawsuits unless it was very profitable, and I doubt ChatGPT is very profitable currently. Bard was likely not trained on copyrightable data, that makes it safe from lawsuits but also removes most of the usecases people want ChatGPT for. And it isn't just about lawsuits, since Google need to keep advertisers happy or they would leave like they leave Elon Musk they can't afford to jeapordise that with questionable launches.
  - i8comments 3y ago
    Why is it legally questionable?
    - Jensson 3y ago
      If it wasn't there wouldn't be lots of lawsuits being filed about it. https://innovationorigins.com/en/openai-and-googles-bard-accused-of-copyright-breaches/ https://innovationorigins.com/en/openai-and-googles-bard-acc...
  - boh 3y ago
    It was 100% trained on copyrightable data. You can tell by using it and Google has a history of "ask for forgiveness not permission" when it comes to data mining.
    - Jensson 3y ago
      > Google has a history of "ask for forgiveness not permission" when it comes to data mining. For very profitable things. This isn't very profitable, which is why I added that part to my comment. Google has a very good understanding what they get sued for and how much those lawsuits costs, if it is profitable anyway they go ahead.
      - boh 3y ago

RockCoach 3y ago

>My bet is that it could be all about some research directions that were "shielded" by Sam. As far as I can tell, all three of them are of Polish descent. For all we know they might have decided to resign together even if only one of them had a personal issue with OpenAI's vision. We will find out soon enough whether they will just found their own competing startup, based on OpenAI's "secret sauce" or not.

slekker 3y ago
What does being Polish have to do with it?
- RockCoach 3y ago
  You've been focussing on the most irrelevant part of my comment. Nothing to do with being Polish in particular. Only that there is a connecting element that might help explain why these 3 decided to resign together on the same day.
  - lttlrck 3y ago
    It's the first sentence which does make it seem important from your perspective, far from irrelevant.
    - Jensson 3y ago
      All of them being from the same area is relevant. Them being polish is not relevant except to show that they were from the same area.
m_ke 3y ago
I wonder if Wojciech Zaremba will leave as well
- suziemanul 3y ago
  Yeah... Curious to see how this will unfold.

throwawaaarrgh 3y ago

> There is "coding" and there is "God's spark genius of algorithms" kind of work. I really don't buy that for a second. Most of OpenAI's value compared to any competitor comes from the money they spent hiring humans to trawl through training data.

elzbardico 3y ago
Not to forget the mind-boggling amount of computing power and the megabucks spent on power bills. If anything, smaller groups and open source seem to get very good results with far less money.
motoboi 3y ago
And their competition didn’t had the same resources?
- suziemanul 3y ago
  This is a handful of people we are talking about. The top algorithimic world is incredibly small. In short, either they didn't or where unable to create a favorable enough environment for this to flourish.
amelius 3y ago
The God's spark of genius are the transformers which came from Google and are now in the open.
- suziemanul 3y ago
  Look where for example Lukasz Kaiser is now [OpenAI]. Google had a culture issue when it came to "delivering brilliance". It was a bit "you do it as a singleton contributor" or you don't. OpenAI put a number of such brilliant people working together on one goal, silently, for quite some time, and we all see the results.