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It is quite gauche for a company to burn bridges with their upper management. This bodes poorly for ever hoping to attract executives in the future. Even Bobby

by clnq 3y ago

It is quite gauche for a company to burn bridges with their upper management. This bodes poorly for ever hoping to attract executives in the future. Even Bobby Kotick got a more graceful farewell from Activision Blizzard, where they tried to clear his name. It is only prudent business. Certainly, this is very immature. It wouldn't be out of context in HBO's Succession. Whether what happened is right or just in some sense is a different conversation. We could speculate on what is going on in the company and why, but the tactlessness is evident.

ribosometronome 3y ago
> Whether it's right or just in some sense is a different conversation. The same conversation if it's "mature", surely? I'm failing to see how one thinks turning a blind eye to like, decades of sexual impropriety and major internal culture issues to the point the state takes action against your company is "mature". Like, under what definition?
- clnq 3y ago
  Mature, as in the opposite of ingenuous. It does no good to harm a company further. Kotick did enough damage, he left, all that needed to be said about him was said, tirelessly. Every effort to get him to offer some reparations - expended. So what was there to gain from the company speaking ill of their past employee? What was even left to say? Nothing. No one wants to work in an organization that vilifies its own people. It was prudent. I will emphasize again that the morality of these situations is a separate matter from tact. It is very well possible that doing what is good for business does not always align with what is moral. But does this come as a surprise to anyone? We can recognize that the situation is not one dimensional and not reduce it to such. The same applies to the press release from Open AI - it is graceless, that much can be observed. But we do not yet know whether it is reprehensible, exemplary, or somewhere in between in the sense of morality and justice. It will come out, in other channels rather than official press releases, like in Bobby's case.
  - watwut 3y ago
    > Mature, as in the opposite of ingenuous To tell it in an exaggerated way, maturity should not imply sociopathy or completely disregard for everything. Obviously I am referring here to Kottick situation. But, the definition where it is immature to tell the truth and mature to enable powerful bad players is wrong definition of maturity.
    - clnq 3y ago
      I respect your belief that maturity involves elevating morality above corporate sagacity. It is noble.
      - watwut 3y ago
        I am not even demanding something super noble from mature people. I am fine with the idea that mature people do compromises. I do not expect managers to be saint like fighters for justice. But, when people use "maturity" as argument for why someone must be enabler, should not do the morally or ethically right thing, then it gets irritating. Conversely, calling people "immature" because they did not acted in the most self serving but sleazy way is ridiculous.
      - ShamelessC 3y ago
        That comes across as pretty condescending. It's not like you have some sort of authoritative high ground about what does and doesn't constitute professionalism in the business world. It sounds to me that your version of professionalism is in line with what gets prescribed at your average mindless corporate human resources or public relations department. Which is fine, but there's zero proof that that is the correct way to do things, and it's actually naive on _your_ part to accept the status quo as is. And, as I said, incredibly condescending to assume it is somehow the "mature" point of view.
ryandrake 3y ago
People get fired all the time: suddenly, too. If I got fired by my company tomorrow, they wouldn't treat me with kid gloves, they'd just end my livelihood like it was nothing. I'd probably find out when I couldn't log in. Why should "upper management" get a graceful farewell? We don't have royalty in the USA. One person is not inherently better than another.
- disgruntledphd2 3y ago
  Because upper management have more power than you or I. If either of us were fired, it's unlikely to be front page news all over the world. It sucks, but that's the world we live in, unfortunately.
- clnq 3y ago
  > Why should "upper management" get a graceful farewell Injustices are made to executives all the time. But airing dirty laundry is not sagacious.
  - anonymouskimmer 3y ago
    All I saw was one phrase indicating there was cause for termination, with no additional explanation. This doesn't seem like airing dirty laundry to me.
- insanitybit 3y ago
  Because no one cares if you get fired but people really care if a CEO gets fired. The scope of a CEO's responsibilities are near-global across the company, firing them is a serious action. Your scope as an engineer is, typically, extremely small by comparison. This isn't about being better at all.

by clnq 3y ago

ribosometronome 3y ago

> Whether it's right or just in some sense is a different conversation. The same conversation if it's "mature", surely? I'm failing to see how one thinks turning a blind eye to like, decades of sexual impropriety and major internal culture issues to the point the state takes action against your company is "mature". Like, under what definition?

clnq 3y ago
Mature, as in the opposite of ingenuous. It does no good to harm a company further. Kotick did enough damage, he left, all that needed to be said about him was said, tirelessly. Every effort to get him to offer some reparations - expended. So what was there to gain from the company speaking ill of their past employee? What was even left to say? Nothing. No one wants to work in an organization that vilifies its own people. It was prudent. I will emphasize again that the morality of these situations is a separate matter from tact. It is very well possible that doing what is good for business does not always align with what is moral. But does this come as a surprise to anyone? We can recognize that the situation is not one dimensional and not reduce it to such. The same applies to the press release from Open AI - it is graceless, that much can be observed. But we do not yet know whether it is reprehensible, exemplary, or somewhere in between in the sense of morality and justice. It will come out, in other channels rather than official press releases, like in Bobby's case.
- watwut 3y ago
  > Mature, as in the opposite of ingenuous To tell it in an exaggerated way, maturity should not imply sociopathy or completely disregard for everything. Obviously I am referring here to Kottick situation. But, the definition where it is immature to tell the truth and mature to enable powerful bad players is wrong definition of maturity.
  - clnq 3y ago
    I respect your belief that maturity involves elevating morality above corporate sagacity. It is noble.
    - watwut 3y ago
      I am not even demanding something super noble from mature people. I am fine with the idea that mature people do compromises. I do not expect managers to be saint like fighters for justice. But, when people use "maturity" as argument for why someone must be enabler, should not do the morally or ethically right thing, then it gets irritating. Conversely, calling people "immature" because they did not acted in the most self serving but sleazy way is ridiculous.
    - ShamelessC 3y ago
      That comes across as pretty condescending. It's not like you have some sort of authoritative high ground about what does and doesn't constitute professionalism in the business world. It sounds to me that your version of professionalism is in line with what gets prescribed at your average mindless corporate human resources or public relations department. Which is fine, but there's zero proof that that is the correct way to do things, and it's actually naive on _your_ part to accept the status quo as is. And, as I said, incredibly condescending to assume it is somehow the "mature" point of view.

ryandrake 3y ago

People get fired all the time: suddenly, too. If I got fired by my company tomorrow, they wouldn't treat me with kid gloves, they'd just end my livelihood like it was nothing. I'd probably find out when I couldn't log in. Why should "upper management" get a graceful farewell? We don't have royalty in the USA. One person is not inherently better than another.

disgruntledphd2 3y ago
Because upper management have more power than you or I. If either of us were fired, it's unlikely to be front page news all over the world. It sucks, but that's the world we live in, unfortunately.
clnq 3y ago
> Why should "upper management" get a graceful farewell Injustices are made to executives all the time. But airing dirty laundry is not sagacious.
- anonymouskimmer 3y ago
  All I saw was one phrase indicating there was cause for termination, with no additional explanation. This doesn't seem like airing dirty laundry to me.
insanitybit 3y ago
Because no one cares if you get fired but people really care if a CEO gets fired. The scope of a CEO's responsibilities are near-global across the company, firing them is a serious action. Your scope as an engineer is, typically, extremely small by comparison. This isn't about being better at all.