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Whatever one can think of Musk's political orientation (I personally dislike it, his anti-wokism has become too extreme for my taste), if some Jewish organisati

Whatever one can think of Musk's political orientation (I personally dislike it, his anti-wokism has become too extreme for my taste), if some Jewish organisations appear to engage in political activism of a specific kind, isn't it legitimate to criticise their political stances? Or should they be shielded from criticism because they're Jewish? Or should criticism be directed as towards no one in particular, to avoid mentioning their religious/ ethnic connotation?

happytoexplain 3y ago
>isn't it legitimate to criticise their political stances Yes. >should they be shielded from criticism No. >should criticism be directed as towards no one in particular No. Frankly I don't really think these are challenging questions, but I also don't think the answers affect the (un)reasonableness of Musk's comment given the specific words of the thread he was replying to.
justapassenger 3y ago
If you criticize one religiously affiliated organization - there's a chance they're the problem. If you constantly criticize many organization/people affiliated with that religion - there's a chance you're the problem. Musk did WAY WAY more than criticize just one jewish organization.
- Dig1t 3y ago
  Here he is defending the Jewish state from calls to violence https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1725645884409401435 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1725645884409401435 There is more nuance here than what the article is saying.
  - ImPostingOnHN 3y ago
    There was no nuance in his post, despite there being ample room for it. Nor would "nuance" have helped when the substance was him agreeing with bad stuff said about jews. Like, what would the nuance be? "Actually I believe the exact opposite, nuance yannow?" He could have posted "the bad stuff you said about jews was wrong". But nope, he did the exact opposite. He agreed with the bad stuff said about jews. Nuff said. It was just him agreeing. Period. Any other post is a distraction. Other posts don't cancel out this one showing how he feels about jews.
    - true_religion 3y ago
      Musk appears to think Jews hate white people, or at least push an agenda to make them become hated. How, and why I don’t know but that’s the post he agrees with. He also simultaneously says the Jews should not be killed off. It’s not really a whole lot of nuance, but I suppose it must be said that Musk is playing the both the victim and the pure white knight here. He wants to look sympathetic and yet strong.
      - soundnote 3y ago
        > Musk appears to think Jews hate white people I'd amend that to thinks there are Jews who hate. Obviously not every Jew hates whites, or is even the sort of leftist who typically spouts anti-white rhetoric and promotes destructive policies in Europe and the US. But finding examples is not hard - at least until a few years ago, the ADL advocated for ethnonationalism for Israel and mass immigration for the US and Europe. Curious, no? The head of I think the SPLC keeps a tracker on his wall for when whites become a minority in the US. There's also fun people like Noel Ignatiev who campaigned to "abolish the white race". Susan Sontag also had "amusing" opinions about the topic, if memory serves. These people and organizations are obviously only some Jewish people, but they are prominent and organizations like the ADL do use their ethnic status as a shield from criticism. That they exist is not up for dispute, a few searches will find all kinds of unsavoury stuff.
        ImPostingOnHN 3y ago
        Your perspective is interesting. The problem is that it doesn't jive with reality. Your amendment is inappropriate because, based on elmu's words, he doesn't seem to "think there are jews who hate", he seems to think jews do, as in the collective people, as in a religion/ethnicity based stereotype. That's what his post said, and he had room within the character limit if he had anything else to say or clarifications to make before posting.
  - justapassenger 3y ago
    I have a black friend so I cannot be racist?
  - weeblewobble 3y ago
    Damage control?
ImPostingOnHN 3y ago
you're confusing jews with jewish organization elmu was hating on jews, not on any organization
D13Fd 3y ago
He said this was the “actual truth”: “Jewish communties have been pushing . . . dialectical hatred against whites . . .” That is not criticizing just “Jewish organizations.” It’s straightforward anti-semitism.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- averageRoyalty 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - true_religion 3y ago
    We have to be careful when a powerful majority group member comes along to demonize a minority. Saying “they are evil, they hate us, and they want to destroy us” is the playbook of every polemic who wants to use minorities as easy excuses for the ills of the world. When powerless minority’s to this to the majority, it’s also objectionable but it’s less immediately dangerous.

happytoexplain 3y ago

>isn't it legitimate to criticise their political stances Yes. >should they be shielded from criticism No. >should criticism be directed as towards no one in particular No. Frankly I don't really think these are challenging questions, but I also don't think the answers affect the (un)reasonableness of Musk's comment given the specific words of the thread he was replying to.

justapassenger 3y ago

If you criticize one religiously affiliated organization - there's a chance they're the problem. If you constantly criticize many organization/people affiliated with that religion - there's a chance you're the problem. Musk did WAY WAY more than criticize just one jewish organization.

Dig1t 3y ago
Here he is defending the Jewish state from calls to violence https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1725645884409401435 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1725645884409401435 There is more nuance here than what the article is saying.
- ImPostingOnHN 3y ago
  There was no nuance in his post, despite there being ample room for it. Nor would "nuance" have helped when the substance was him agreeing with bad stuff said about jews. Like, what would the nuance be? "Actually I believe the exact opposite, nuance yannow?" He could have posted "the bad stuff you said about jews was wrong". But nope, he did the exact opposite. He agreed with the bad stuff said about jews. Nuff said. It was just him agreeing. Period. Any other post is a distraction. Other posts don't cancel out this one showing how he feels about jews.
  - true_religion 3y ago
    Musk appears to think Jews hate white people, or at least push an agenda to make them become hated. How, and why I don’t know but that’s the post he agrees with. He also simultaneously says the Jews should not be killed off. It’s not really a whole lot of nuance, but I suppose it must be said that Musk is playing the both the victim and the pure white knight here. He wants to look sympathetic and yet strong.
    - soundnote 3y ago
      > Musk appears to think Jews hate white people I'd amend that to thinks there are Jews who hate. Obviously not every Jew hates whites, or is even the sort of leftist who typically spouts anti-white rhetoric and promotes destructive policies in Europe and the US. But finding examples is not hard - at least until a few years ago, the ADL advocated for ethnonationalism for Israel and mass immigration for the US and Europe. Curious, no? The head of I think the SPLC keeps a tracker on his wall for when whites become a minority in the US. There's also fun people like Noel Ignatiev who campaigned to "abolish the white race". Susan Sontag also had "amusing" opinions about the topic, if memory serves. These people and organizations are obviously only some Jewish people, but they are prominent and organizations like the ADL do use their ethnic status as a shield from criticism. That they exist is not up for dispute, a few searches will find all kinds of unsavoury stuff.
      - ImPostingOnHN 3y ago
        Your perspective is interesting. The problem is that it doesn't jive with reality. Your amendment is inappropriate because, based on elmu's words, he doesn't seem to "think there are jews who hate", he seems to think jews do, as in the collective people, as in a religion/ethnicity based stereotype. That's what his post said, and he had room within the character limit if he had anything else to say or clarifications to make before posting.
- justapassenger 3y ago
  I have a black friend so I cannot be racist?
- weeblewobble 3y ago
  Damage control?

ImPostingOnHN 3y ago

you're confusing jews with jewish organization elmu was hating on jews, not on any organization

D13Fd 3y ago

He said this was the “actual truth”: “Jewish communties have been pushing . . . dialectical hatred against whites . . .” That is not criticizing just “Jewish organizations.” It’s straightforward anti-semitism.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
averageRoyalty 3y ago
[flagged]
- true_religion 3y ago
  We have to be careful when a powerful majority group member comes along to demonize a minority. Saying “they are evil, they hate us, and they want to destroy us” is the playbook of every polemic who wants to use minorities as easy excuses for the ills of the world. When powerless minority’s to this to the majority, it’s also objectionable but it’s less immediately dangerous.