7 ms·

What possible context could have made this any better?

by xenospn 3y ago

xcv123 3y ago
[flagged]
- Dig1t 3y ago
  The ADL also defines racism as something that only white people are capable of. https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/04/us/anti-defamation-league-racism-definition/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/04/us/anti-defamation-league-rac... They changed the definition in 2022 from: "Racism is the belief that a particular race is superior or inferior to another, that a person’s social and moral traits are predetermined by his or her inborn biological characteristics. Racial separatism is the belief, most of the time based on racism, that different races should remain segregated and apart from one another." to "The marginalization and/or oppression of people of color based on a socially constructed racial hierarchy that privileges white people." There is at least SOME nuance here.
  - xcv123 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - pharrington 3y ago
      The is nothing "anti-white" about acknowledging race based privilege in a given society.
      - xcv123 3y ago
        [flagged]
        ImPostingOnHN 3y ago
        white privilege doesn't preclude being disadvantaged or struggling, what a weird hangup > having "white privilege" then yes it is racist by definition. When kids are taught that white people are inherently evil oh, okay, I see I am speaking with someone who is delusional, and likely has a chip on their shoulder. If you can come up with evidence that any significant number of kids are being taught that white people are, and I'm quoting you here, "inherently evil", I'll eat my hat.
        xcv123 3y ago
        The issue of Critical Race Theory (CRT) in schools has been a subject of intense controversy and public debate for several years and many states have banned it already. Many states have legislated against it. There is an abundance of legal documentation you can read to find out why.
        orwin 3y ago
        Do you know what Critical Race Theory is? Or its superset, Critical theory? If it's taught at any level below highschool the US is probably the best educated country in the world, and critical thinking should be really high (is that why the less wrong movement emerged from your country?). In any case, I would be impressed, but I would understand the reasons to not teach it too early.
        xcv123 3y ago
        Yeah I studied mathematics and computer science at post graduate level, including formal logic, and consider CRT to be a pseudo-intellectual field of "study" that actively destroys critical thinking. There is no intellectual rigor in that. They produce indoctrinated midwits and are lobotomizing young people. Merely having "critical" in the title does not mean that it actually teaches critical thinking. Critical Theory has absolutely nothing to do with teaching critical thinking. > is that why the less wrong movement emerged from your country? I live far away from the USA in a very "progressive" country.
        3y ago
        deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
  - usefulcat 3y ago
    According to the article you linked, the 'white people' definition was in use from 2020-2022, and then they broadened the definition in 2022: "Since 2020, the ADL had described racism as 'the marginalization and/or oppression of people of color based on a socially constructed racial hierarchy that privileges White people.'" "As of Friday [February 4th 2022], the group’s new and 'interim' definition states that racism 'occurs when individuals or institutions show more favorable evaluation or treatment of an individual or group based on race or ethnicity.'"
- happytoexplain 3y ago
  Did you read the Tweet Musk was replying to? What he said was much more broad and hateful than the much more specific opinion that "It's okay to be white" is not usually used in a hateful way. Musk chose to be broad on purpose - it's a common tactic for this kind of provocative shitposting. I.e., purposefully declining to distance yourself from obvious implications like any honest person would with just a few words or choosing a different context for your comment. The result is that your social/political enemies get (rightfully) upset with you, but you've left yourself a margin in which you can use weasel words to defend yourself and claim that your critics are trying to censor your innocent speech, or whatever.
  - xcv123 3y ago
    There is a strong racist ideological movement against "white people" in modern academia and society in general, and the ADL is fully aligned with this. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whiteness_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whiteness_theory This is the issue that Elon Musk is concerned with.
    - Semaphor 3y ago
      So why didn't he reply to a comment about that?
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
    - sujal 3y ago
      It’s wild that you think anything on that Wikipedia page describes anything resembling a movement “against ‘white people’”. You’re bending over backwards to find the context in Musk’s comment (which many, up and down this thread, have correctly criticized). Then you take the attitude you ascribe to musk critics and apply that to a reading of an academic theory that’s not actually taught in grade schools.
      - xcv123 3y ago
- kps 3y ago
  The tweet that Musk endorsed referred to “western Jewish populations”, not to the ADL. https://nitter.net/breakingbaht/status/1724892505647296620 https://nitter.net/breakingbaht/status/1724892505647296620
  - xcv123 3y ago
    The ADL is a major Jewish organization that is widely supported by the American Jewish community. It's not some tiny irrelevant fringe group within their community. He explained further in the same thread.
    - ImPostingOnHN 3y ago
      If you believe there is zero difference between railing on the ADL and railing on jews (elmu agrees with both) then you are completely lost.
      - xcv123 3y ago
        Yes agreed. ADL != all Jews. That's the point. 1. The initial comment and reply on Twitter made it appear that Musk was possibly referring to all Jews. 2. His subsequent replies in the same thread clarified that this was not what he had in mind, as he was referring to powerful influential subsets of Jews such as the ADL. If you are completely stuck on #1 and cannot understand or accept #2 then I cannot help you any further.
        ImPostingOnHN 3y ago
        1. The initial comment was about jews, not the ADL. I've linked it below [0]. "Jews" != ADL, and he was talking about the former, not the latter, no matter how many failing Jedi mind tricks you try while handwaving away elmu's jew hate. 2. Your subsequent sophistry trying to pretend that his later replies somehow cancel out his initial reply (which hated on jews, see #1) is unconvincing, hence why nobody believes it except a few fans of his. It doesn't matter if he regretted his first post and tried to backpedal from it over an hour after he was widely condemned for it. He still made it. If you are completely stuck on #2 and cannot understand or accept #1 then you cannot be helped any further. [0]: https://nitter.net/elonmusk/status/1724908287471272299 https://nitter.net/elonmusk/status/1724908287471272299
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- trogdor 3y ago
  You are being downvoted because the post Musk replied to said nothing about the ADL. Geez.
  - xcv123 3y ago
    The post referred to "Jewish communities". The ADL is a major Jewish organization massively supported by and representative of the Jewish community. He clarified his response in subsequent replies down below in the same thread. Geez.
dgb23 3y ago
Any context would do. I only see some allegations that link to other allegations. My gut reaction to claims like these, especially such severe ones, is always to be extremely suspicious about them. Especially if they are made about someone people want to see failing.
- ge96 3y ago
  Want a conspiracy, I wonder if some of these negative thoughts are driven externally (external countries). It is cool to hate rich people don't you know.
- shadowgovt 3y ago
  I hate to be the harbinger of bad news, but... This is the era in which we should all re-calibrate our baloney sensors to be less benefit-of-the-doubt. The benefit of the doubt is giving the fascists room to win. p.s: > I only see some allegations that link to other allegations. Yeah, Twitter is pretty shit for discovery these days since Musk broke the way it works without being logged in under a Twitter account. I solved that problem by not caring; I quit Twitter years ago and I'm not going to re-up to workaround it getting worse. It turns out I don't actually need to know everything everyone says on a topic. I can choose to ignore the signal on Twitter as "Too broken to care."

What possible context could have made this any better?

xcv123 3y ago

[flagged]

Dig1t 3y ago
The ADL also defines racism as something that only white people are capable of. https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/04/us/anti-defamation-league-racism-definition/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/04/us/anti-defamation-league-rac... They changed the definition in 2022 from: "Racism is the belief that a particular race is superior or inferior to another, that a person’s social and moral traits are predetermined by his or her inborn biological characteristics. Racial separatism is the belief, most of the time based on racism, that different races should remain segregated and apart from one another." to "The marginalization and/or oppression of people of color based on a socially constructed racial hierarchy that privileges white people." There is at least SOME nuance here.
- xcv123 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - pharrington 3y ago
    The is nothing "anti-white" about acknowledging race based privilege in a given society.
    - xcv123 3y ago
      [flagged]
      - ImPostingOnHN 3y ago
        white privilege doesn't preclude being disadvantaged or struggling, what a weird hangup > having "white privilege" then yes it is racist by definition. When kids are taught that white people are inherently evil oh, okay, I see I am speaking with someone who is delusional, and likely has a chip on their shoulder. If you can come up with evidence that any significant number of kids are being taught that white people are, and I'm quoting you here, "inherently evil", I'll eat my hat.
        xcv123 3y ago
        The issue of Critical Race Theory (CRT) in schools has been a subject of intense controversy and public debate for several years and many states have banned it already. Many states have legislated against it. There is an abundance of legal documentation you can read to find out why.
        orwin 3y ago
        Do you know what Critical Race Theory is? Or its superset, Critical theory? If it's taught at any level below highschool the US is probably the best educated country in the world, and critical thinking should be really high (is that why the less wrong movement emerged from your country?). In any case, I would be impressed, but I would understand the reasons to not teach it too early.
        xcv123 3y ago
        Yeah I studied mathematics and computer science at post graduate level, including formal logic, and consider CRT to be a pseudo-intellectual field of "study" that actively destroys critical thinking. There is no intellectual rigor in that. They produce indoctrinated midwits and are lobotomizing young people. Merely having "critical" in the title does not mean that it actually teaches critical thinking. Critical Theory has absolutely nothing to do with teaching critical thinking. > is that why the less wrong movement emerged from your country? I live far away from the USA in a very "progressive" country.
        3y ago
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
- usefulcat 3y ago
  According to the article you linked, the 'white people' definition was in use from 2020-2022, and then they broadened the definition in 2022: "Since 2020, the ADL had described racism as 'the marginalization and/or oppression of people of color based on a socially constructed racial hierarchy that privileges White people.'" "As of Friday [February 4th 2022], the group’s new and 'interim' definition states that racism 'occurs when individuals or institutions show more favorable evaluation or treatment of an individual or group based on race or ethnicity.'"
happytoexplain 3y ago
Did you read the Tweet Musk was replying to? What he said was much more broad and hateful than the much more specific opinion that "It's okay to be white" is not usually used in a hateful way. Musk chose to be broad on purpose - it's a common tactic for this kind of provocative shitposting. I.e., purposefully declining to distance yourself from obvious implications like any honest person would with just a few words or choosing a different context for your comment. The result is that your social/political enemies get (rightfully) upset with you, but you've left yourself a margin in which you can use weasel words to defend yourself and claim that your critics are trying to censor your innocent speech, or whatever.
- xcv123 3y ago
  There is a strong racist ideological movement against "white people" in modern academia and society in general, and the ADL is fully aligned with this. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whiteness_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whiteness_theory This is the issue that Elon Musk is concerned with.
  - Semaphor 3y ago
    So why didn't he reply to a comment about that?
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
  - sujal 3y ago
    It’s wild that you think anything on that Wikipedia page describes anything resembling a movement “against ‘white people’”. You’re bending over backwards to find the context in Musk’s comment (which many, up and down this thread, have correctly criticized). Then you take the attitude you ascribe to musk critics and apply that to a reading of an academic theory that’s not actually taught in grade schools.
    - xcv123 3y ago
kps 3y ago
The tweet that Musk endorsed referred to “western Jewish populations”, not to the ADL. https://nitter.net/breakingbaht/status/1724892505647296620 https://nitter.net/breakingbaht/status/1724892505647296620
- xcv123 3y ago
  The ADL is a major Jewish organization that is widely supported by the American Jewish community. It's not some tiny irrelevant fringe group within their community. He explained further in the same thread.
  - ImPostingOnHN 3y ago
    If you believe there is zero difference between railing on the ADL and railing on jews (elmu agrees with both) then you are completely lost.
    - xcv123 3y ago
      Yes agreed. ADL != all Jews. That's the point. 1. The initial comment and reply on Twitter made it appear that Musk was possibly referring to all Jews. 2. His subsequent replies in the same thread clarified that this was not what he had in mind, as he was referring to powerful influential subsets of Jews such as the ADL. If you are completely stuck on #1 and cannot understand or accept #2 then I cannot help you any further.
      - ImPostingOnHN 3y ago
        1. The initial comment was about jews, not the ADL. I've linked it below [0]. "Jews" != ADL, and he was talking about the former, not the latter, no matter how many failing Jedi mind tricks you try while handwaving away elmu's jew hate. 2. Your subsequent sophistry trying to pretend that his later replies somehow cancel out his initial reply (which hated on jews, see #1) is unconvincing, hence why nobody believes it except a few fans of his. It doesn't matter if he regretted his first post and tried to backpedal from it over an hour after he was widely condemned for it. He still made it. If you are completely stuck on #2 and cannot understand or accept #1 then you cannot be helped any further. [0]: https://nitter.net/elonmusk/status/1724908287471272299 https://nitter.net/elonmusk/status/1724908287471272299
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
trogdor 3y ago
You are being downvoted because the post Musk replied to said nothing about the ADL. Geez.
- xcv123 3y ago
  The post referred to "Jewish communities". The ADL is a major Jewish organization massively supported by and representative of the Jewish community. He clarified his response in subsequent replies down below in the same thread. Geez.

dgb23 3y ago

Any context would do. I only see some allegations that link to other allegations. My gut reaction to claims like these, especially such severe ones, is always to be extremely suspicious about them. Especially if they are made about someone people want to see failing.

ge96 3y ago
Want a conspiracy, I wonder if some of these negative thoughts are driven externally (external countries). It is cool to hate rich people don't you know.
shadowgovt 3y ago
I hate to be the harbinger of bad news, but... This is the era in which we should all re-calibrate our baloney sensors to be less benefit-of-the-doubt. The benefit of the doubt is giving the fascists room to win. p.s: > I only see some allegations that link to other allegations. Yeah, Twitter is pretty shit for discovery these days since Musk broke the way it works without being logged in under a Twitter account. I solved that problem by not caring; I quit Twitter years ago and I'm not going to re-up to workaround it getting worse. It turns out I don't actually need to know everything everyone says on a topic. I can choose to ignore the signal on Twitter as "Too broken to care."